OT: Lawyers of the Boneyard: Employee-Employer Problems

[Rocktheworld]

Hello everyone,

I don’t want to go into anything too specific publicly, but would greatly appreciate it if someone with some experience could DM me about a situation my wife is in at work.

To make the story as short as possible, my wife works for a company that used to have a specific position that compensates nicely. My wife was hired to the company at a lower level, when nobody was holding said position. Over time, has been slowly nudged into essentially doing said role, at a much lower level of compensation and with the same job title she was hired as. She came to find out she was doing this other, higher level job, and has been trying to get a title change and commensurate raise. This involved her submitting a whole document regarding the roles of the position and basically detailed how she has been fulfilling said position already. The company is, obviously, not going along with things like they morally should; and I would like to know what legal steps may be available to us to ensure she is appropriately compensated for her work.

Thanks to anyone game to help

 

[B1GEast]

I'm not going to address the question since I'm not a lawyer, just giving my two cents.

1. Does your wife like her job?
2. Is the company doing well or are they in a challenging situation?
3. If she needed to find another job, could she easily find one and if not, could your family finances handle her being unemployed for a while?

My guess is that if they are not paying her fairly for her role and she's performing work for far less money than she should be making and it has not been addressed by now, they have no intention of playing fair with her.

If she seeks a legal solution, she probably won't be working there long. Just my guess.

This will be a delicate tight rope walk for your wife.

Hopefully she has relationships with people that value her.

Trying to legally resolve a compensation issue is hard. Good luck. I wish her well. I hope they end up paying her fairly.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I'm not going to address the question since I'm not a lawyer, just giving my two cents.

1. Does your wife like her job?
2. Is the company doing well or are they in a challenging situation?
3. If she needed to find another job, could she easily find one and if not, could your family finances handle her being unemployed for a while?

My guess is that if they are not paying her fairly for her role and she's performing work for far less money than she should be making and it has not been addressed by now, they have no intention of playing fair with her.

If she seeks a legal solution, she probably won't be working there long. Just my guess.

This will be a delicate tight rope walk for your wife.

Hopefully she has relationships with people that value her.

Trying to legally resolve a compensation issue is hard. Good luck. I wish her well. I hope they end up paying her fairly.

Appreciate all this. Just wanted to get some general options (like if she has any real recourse), if any; but these side points are appreciated. Company is doing well overall as far as I know. We just got married and could withstand a period of her being unemployed, but that obviously sets us way back with life plans. Also in our sociopolitical climate right now it is scary to think about leaving a job and hoping for a new one.

She is definitely over this and would jump ship tomorrow. Her peers love her, and her direct leadership absolutely adore her. It’s just now that the title change effort has reached Corporate (a [tiny] credit to her leadership), she’s hearing that the outcome may not be great. The problem with her finding a new job is that, because she’s been working under this lower title, she anticipates difficulty making what would be a lateral and upward move, and without official experience with the title she wants, she won’t be nearly as hirable/competitive. So she feels very stuck right now. I told her to start putting together more of a CV to highlight the products she’s developed and can discuss, rather than focusing on titles and responsibilities found in a typical resume.

 

[SubbaBub]

Unless she belongs to a union or has a contract, I'm not sure what a lawyer could do as she's not entitled to anything. She can ask, she can persuade, she can make an assessment of her market value to the company. What she can't do is expect to complain, extort, or lawyer her way to victory unless the company is doing something illegal at which point she won't be working there for long.

But if it were me, as someone who decides these things:
1. Performing certain tasks are not the end all be all in terms of compensation. People who drive revenue, sales, profit are worth more. She may be performing some of duties of the job in question, but not necessarily the ones that the company will pay extra for.
2. Neither is job title or job description unless there is a very rigid corporate structure.
3. There are people who can influence compensation packages, raises, promotions and there are people who decide. She needs to focus on one or more of those two groups without upsetting anyone else who could derail the effort. This includes other co-workers, supervisors etc.
4. She needs to make sure she understands her true market value to the company. If she is truly valuable based on how the company values contributions, not how she feels, then there is a better chance of success.
5. Benchmarking against others, internal and external is allowed and recommended. If the position is open and she fits the description, just apply for it. If not, then she'll eventually need to make her case to someone.
6. It's a red flag to me if she doesn't have a champion, mentor, or supervisor that will go to bat for her. It's a sign to look elsewhere.
7. It's a good idea to check the marketplace for other opportunities. There is a fine line between being assertive and upsetting the cart completely. If she is denied and feelings are hurt, she may do herself damage at here current job.
8. Never issue an ultimatum like bluffing or even leveraging another offer. It rarely works out in the long run. You get an offer you like somewhere else, take it.

Tl;dr Know your position, have a plan, don't get emotional, good luck.

 

[husky429]

There is no recourse for her. She needs to find another job if she wants more pay.

Asked my wife. She studies employment law (and used to practice) for a living.

 

[Northbound]

Unless she belongs to a union or has a contract, I'm not sure what a lawyer could do as she's not entitled to anything. She can ask, she can persuade, she can make an assessment of her market value to the company. What she can't do is expect to complain, extort, or lawyer her way to victory unless the company is doing something illegal at which point she won't be working there for long.

But if it were me, as someone who decides these things:
1. Performing certain tasks are not the end all be all in terms of compensation. People who drive revenue, sales, profit are worth more. She may be performing some of duties of the job in question, but not necessarily the ones that the company will pay extra for.
2. Neither is job title or job description unless there is a very rigid corporate structure.
3. There are people who can influence compensation packages, raises, promotions and there are people who decide. She needs to focus on one or more of those two groups without upsetting anyone else who could derail the effort. This includes other co-workers, supervisors etc.
4. She needs to make sure she understands her true market value to the company. If she is truly valuable based on how the company values contributions, not how she feels, then there is a better chance of success.
5. Benchmarking against others, internal and external is allowed and recommended. If the position is open and she fits the description, just apply for it. If not, then she'll eventually need to make her case to someone.
6. It's a red flag to me if she doesn't have a champion, mentor, or supervisor that will go to bat for her. It's a sign to look elsewhere.
7. It's a good idea to check the marketplace for other opportunities. There is a fine line between being assertive and upsetting the cart completely. If she is denied and feelings are hurt, she may do herself damage at here current job.
8. Never issue an ultimatum like bluffing or even leveraging another offer. It rarely works out in the long run. You get an offer you like somewhere else, take it.

Tl;dr Know your position, have a plan, don't get emotional, good luck.

Agree with all of this

Thinking she’s an at will employee so options are likely limited.

Will say that there’s always someone that thinks they are absorbing an open role’s responsibilities. Are they, sometimes yes and sometimes no - if they are it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll get the compensation or title bump.

 

[Waquoit]

She's doing the job for the money she's being paid. That's what she's worth. It's called capitalism. She can ask for a raise and quit if she doesn't get it it. Or suck it up. There is no legal recourse, not now.

 

[B1GEast]

She's doing the job for the money she's being paid. That's what she's worth. It's called capitalism. She can ask for a raise and quit if she doesn't get it it. Or suck it up. There is no legal recourse, not now.

I know a few people accepted a role and were given work beyond the scope of the job description.

I've seen open positions closed because they managed to shift responsibilities to other team members.

People are employees at will, but that's no excuse to expect hard working employees to simply suck it up.

I understand what you're saying, but your reply lacks empathy.

And that's the real problem with corporate America today. We claim that AI cannot replace people cause it lacks empathy, but lot of humans lack empathy too, especially HR.

 

[UCTitleTown]

After staff reductions, my boss has my staff and I each doing three people's jobs in completely different areas than we were hired for or on our job descriptions (except for the ubiquitous "All other tasks assignedby Manager" clause). Companies are always looking to shaft people to improve the stock price.

 

[fatlucy]

I’ve had up to 325 people reporting to me. This: “6. It's a red flag to me if she doesn't have a champion, mentor, or supervisor that will go to bat for her. It's a sign to look elsewhere.” She should start looking while professionally making her case.

 

[Waquoit]

I understand what you're saying, but your reply lacks empathy.

I have a ton of empathy. I'm Mr. Empathy. But the OP wanted advice not a hug. I've have seen and heard this same exact story so many times it blurs. And the story is always the same. Make hay at your own risk.

 

[B1GEast]

I have a ton of empathy. I'm Mr. Empathy. But the OP wanted advice not a hug. I've have seen and heard this same exact story so many times it blurs. And the story is always the same. Make hay at your own risk.

Fair enough

 

[B1GEast]

This: “6. It's a red flag to me if she doesn't have a champion, mentor, or supervisor that will go to bat for her. It's a sign to look elsewhere.” She should start looking while professionally making her case.

If any of the above mentioned are not high enough in the chain, it doesn't matter much.

You could have a ton of support, but if it's not at the C Suite level, it's probably not going to help unless they are very influential, which some are.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Agree with all of this

Thinking she’s an at will employee so options are likely limited.

Will say that there’s always someone that thinks they are absorbing an open role’s responsibilities. Are they, sometimes yes and sometimes no - if they are it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll get the compensation or title bump.

No she is literally doing a different role at this point. She submitted an entire comparison between her official title and its responsibilities, and the title and responsibilities she’s actually been doing. Her direct leadership designated her as the role she knows she’s been doing in a meeting with a client. They are having her perform a job and paying her about 30-40k less than they should.

 

[Rocktheworld]

She's doing the job for the money she's being paid. That's what she's worth. It's called capitalism. She can ask for a raise and quit if she doesn't get it it. Or suck it up. There is no legal recourse, not now.

Jobs have job descriptions and commensurate pay to compensate for work done. She is performing tasks that are not part of her official role, rather a different role. Basically what @B1GEast said.

You’re dismissed from this discussion

 

[Rocktheworld]

I’ve had up to 325 people reporting to me. This: “6. It's a red flag to me if she doesn't have a champion, mentor, or supervisor that will go to bat for her. It's a sign to look elsewhere.” She should start looking while professionally making her case.

As I’ve said, her leadership seem to love her and brought this to the CEO themselves, I’m not sure to what degree they can further “go to bat for her”

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I held a position for several years that I enjoyed and the firm did a re-org, where they basically completely changed my role into something I never wanted to do. I b*tched, went into somewhat of a depression and spoke to a few lawyers who only wanted to hear if it was discrimination based (it wasn’t). So I went on miserable for a few months then found a new job. They were shocked but submitting my resignation letter was one of the best moments of my life.

My advice, have her network and job hunt to get the fudge out of there ASAP and never look back.

 

[UConnJim]

I have seen this situation in the past. We had an employee that didn't have an engineering degree but he was performing as an engineer, but as a lower pay technician. He was great at what he did, but the company wouldn't give him the title and pay of engineer. So, he looked for an engineering position and found one at another company and went back to his supervisor and asked to become a full engineer. He was so good at his job and he liked the company so they promoted him to full engineer.

 

[FlippinCrazy!]

This is a good situation to be in. She holds all the leverage. If she’s asked for a promotion/raise but didn’t get one, then force them to give her one. Start looking for another job (which she also now has a lot of interesting and relevant talking points during interviews). Her company will then realize it’ll cost much more to replace her than promote her, and ideally they’d do the smart/right thing. But sounds like this company doesn’t fully value their employees and she might as well jump ship to another anyways.

Obviously an oversimplification and a lot more factors go into it, but it’s essentially what I would do in that situation. As one of the UConn accounting professors used to say, never say no to your money.

 

[Stinger92860]

Hello everyone,

I don’t want to go into anything too specific publicly, but would greatly appreciate it if someone with some experience could DM me about a situation my wife is in at work.

To make the story as short as possible, my wife works for a company that used to have a specific position that compensates nicely. My wife was hired to the company at a lower level, when nobody was holding said position. Over time, has been slowly nudged into essentially doing said role, at a much lower level of compensation and with the same job title she was hired as. She came to find out she was doing this other, higher level job, and has been trying to get a title change and commensurate raise. This involved her submitting a whole document regarding the roles of the position and basically detailed how she has been fulfilling said position already. The company is, obviously, not going along with things like they morally should; and I would like to know what legal steps may be available to us to ensure she is appropriately compensated for her work.

Thanks to anyone game to help

How many hours a week is she working? Is she paid hourly with OT kicker or salaried? How was her last review?

 

[Dooch]

Hello everyone,

I don’t want to go into anything too specific publicly, but would greatly appreciate it if someone with some experience could DM me about a situation my wife is in at work.

To make the story as short as possible, my wife works for a company that used to have a specific position that compensates nicely. My wife was hired to the company at a lower level, when nobody was holding said position. Over time, has been slowly nudged into essentially doing said role, at a much lower level of compensation and with the same job title she was hired as. She came to find out she was doing this other, higher level job, and has been trying to get a title change and commensurate raise. This involved her submitting a whole document regarding the roles of the position and basically detailed how she has been fulfilling said position already. The company is, obviously, not going along with things like they morally should; and I would like to know what legal steps may be available to us to ensure she is appropriately compensated for her work.

Thanks to anyone game to help

From my experience, and this is just my 2 cents, you typically don't go up in compensation unless you leave for another company/role, or at least the threat of leaving.....not a lawyer but I don't think she has much legal recourse to be honest

 

[navery12]

I'm in basically the same position now. Was hired to do one job and now the entire department other than myself is gone, without any direct replacements

 

[Waquoit]

Jobs have job descriptions and commensurate pay to compensate for work done. She is performing tasks that are not part of her official role, rather a different role. Basically what @B1GEast said.

You’re dismissed from this discussion

By you? Please. We're talking the real world here, world. I've never seen anyone win this fight.

 

[bfs3]

By you? Please. We're talking the real world here, world. I've never seen anyone win this fight.

Yeah. IDC how valid your point was or not. When you ask for legal advice on a public college basketball forum you don’t get to moderate the responses.

 

[Rocktheworld]

By you? Please. We're talking the real world here, world. I've never seen anyone win this fight.

Congratulations