Latest from the problem at North Carolina | The Boneyard

Latest from the problem at North Carolina

Status
Not open for further replies.

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,273
Reaction Score
16,870
Thought we needed a break from the hand-wringing and bridge jumping.

Not a whole lot to report.

-The U is spending a small fortune on a PR firm.

-An article in http://www.wral.com/ (local radio station I presume) questions the effect on accreditation
but no real news.

- Obviously, the U didn't take my advice and do a complete fess up.

But the most interesting piece is a commentary on the Duke BB site, well-written and a really excellent commentary on the whole mess.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2014/11/20/7253239/rivalry-loses-some-oomph-after-unc-scandal
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,316
Reaction Score
10,023
That post from dukebasketballreport.com is excellent.

Thanks for posting the link.
 

Wbbfan1

And That’s The Way It Is
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
9,164
Reaction Score
17,443
Great read, but UNC won't play any attention to it.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
21,833
Reaction Score
52,954
Mark my words: UNC gets less punishment than UConn did for those players not graduating.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,723
Reaction Score
4,670
vowelguy said:
Mark my words: UNC gets less punishment than UConn did for those players not graduating.

Unfortunately I tend to agree with you.
 

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,273
Reaction Score
16,870
Lot's of talk today.

Reported that Faculty and Student leaders reported to the board on reforms but no talk of accepting responsibility.
Some what interesting piece in the Carolina Journal on the responsibility of Middle and Senior High Schools
in promoting undeserving students and the increasing prevalence of the internet to provide portions of papers, what he describes as cut and paste…

This scandal shows no signs of abating; needs closure from someone.

http://www.carolinajournal.com/daily_journal/display.html?id=11574
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,723
Reaction Score
4,670
Lot's of talk today.

Reported that Faculty and Student leaders reported to the board on reforms but no talk of accepting responsibility.
Some what interesting piece in the Carolina Journal on the responsibility of Middle and Senior High Schools
in promoting undeserving students and the increasing prevalence of the internet to provide portions of papers, what he describes as cut and paste…

This scandal shows no signs of abating; needs closure from someone.

http://www.carolinajournal.com/daily_journal/display.html?id=11574
Typical of these things....deflect the blame, fail to look in the mirror and recognize that regardless of what other people may or may not have done, you are responsible for your acts in perpetuating the fraud and deepening the problem.

Happens surprisingly often today. Accountability is lacking because everyone is busy pointing fingers and denying any culpability and attempting to make everyone else the fall guy. Happens everywhere - in relationships, work, social settings, the media, politics. How refreshing it would be to hear someone say they were wrong, they screwed up, they did an injustice to another human being and to issue a real honest to goodness apology. Oh what a better world this would be...but that is a dream for another day.
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
2,268
Reaction Score
5,941
The educational standards in the USA has been declining for quite some time now. The emphasis being on quantity rather than quality. This creates the illusion of both production while producing more profit. Lets not fool ourselves our Institutions of higher learning have been geared to profit rather than our societies educational needs for decades.
 

UcMiami

How it is
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
14,105
Reaction Score
46,624
Everyone likes to point at 'educational standards' and wring their hands at how they have declined and point at teachers and schools and wash their hands of responsibility. I think it is a much bigger societal problem that involves parents and the community and changes in societies expectations. And it probably started right after WWII with the GI bill (which was great legislation, but began the over emphasis on everyone getting a college education and the devaluing of 'vocational' training.)
1. We now as a society expect elementary and secondary public schools to educate everyone to college entry level regardless of innate ability.
2. We expect them to provide discipline and structure to children that for 16 hours a day and weekends receive neither.
3. We expect them to 'mainstream' severely learning challenged children within the same format with 'gifted' students and without regard for cost or the penalty we impose on standard students when their teachers devote a large portion of their energy on those with learning/behavioral challenges.
4. We have created a legal and societal shift where when failure occurs it is the presumption that the teacher, school, and administration is at fault and not the child or the parent or the community.
5. We have created an expectation that all effort is equal by giving prizes to all contestants, giving presents to all attendees at birthday parties, and that anything less than an 'A' needs to be justified by the grader and not the gradee.
6. We have created a children's drug culture that medicates every non-perfect behavioral characteristic with powerful drugs.
7. We have always created heroes out of athletically gifted children, but we have over recent times become less celebratory of the academically gifted children.
8. We have always created somewhat different standards for athletically gifted children, but we have been corrupted further by the incredible influx of money into athletics at every level.
9. We have in an attempt to 'raise standards' stifled creativity in education - we 'teach to the test' now rather than teach, penalize creatively wrong answers, and have underfunded or cut the creative non-core curriculum that stimulated and broadened our students education.

And on a slightly political level
10. We put incredible power into the hands of local school boards and allow them to redefine course curriculum for ideological reasons and not for educational reasons.
11. We accept and celebrate politicians who say 'I'm not a scientist, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night, and ....' and then put them in charge of science and technology.
12. We exchange news for commentary and entertainment, debate for demagoguery, and 'balance' for fact.
13. We exchange sound bites for insight.
14. We create incredible wealth opportunities for moderately capable people and little support for teachers and are then surprised that our pool of qualified teachers shrinks.

Sorry for the diatribe - but I feel strongly that we as a society get the educational system we deserve and the focus on teachers and schools as opposed to the communities and society in which they operate is the main reason that 'fixing our broken system' is something we have been unable to do.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
238
Reaction Score
234
Interesting difference between how media has taken Roy Williams and former UNC Men's Basketball staff members to task for this, but women's basketball media has pretty much left their women's program alone. The report issued stated something like 100+ UNC women's basketball players were connected to the academic fraud. This is when gender-based discrimination actually helps women.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,316
Reaction Score
10,023
Interesting difference between how media has taken Roy Williams and former UNC Men's Basketball staff members to task for this, but women's basketball media has pretty much left their women's program alone. The report issued stated something like 100+ UNC women's basketball players were connected to the academic fraud. This is when gender-based discrimination actually helps women.

I have noticed this too and I think it is despicable. The wbb media's job is to cover what is happening in wbb whether good or bad. If they want to preserve what integrity they do have they need to start reporting on this issue.
Not that I'm holding my breath, mind you.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,316
Reaction Score
10,023
Everyone likes to point at 'educational standards' and wring their hands at how they have declined and point at teachers and schools and wash their hands of responsibility. I think it is a much bigger societal problem that involves parents and the community and changes in societies expectations. And it probably started right after WWII with the GI bill (which was great legislation, but began the over emphasis on everyone getting a college education and the devaluing of 'vocational' training.)
1. We now as a society expect elementary and secondary public schools to educate everyone to college entry level regardless of innate ability.
2. We expect them to provide discipline and structure to children that for 16 hours a day and weekends receive neither.
3. We expect them to 'mainstream' severely learning challenged children within the same format with 'gifted' students and without regard for cost or the penalty we impose on standard students when their teachers devote a large portion of their energy on those with learning/behavioral challenges.
4. We have created a legal and societal shift where when failure occurs it is the presumption that the teacher, school, and administration is at fault and not the child or the parent or the community.
5. We have created an expectation that all effort is equal by giving prizes to all contestants, giving presents to all attendees at birthday parties, and that anything less than an 'A' needs to be justified by the grader and not the gradee.
6. We have created a children's drug culture that medicates every non-perfect behavioral characteristic with powerful drugs.
7. We have always created heroes out of athletically gifted children, but we have over recent times become less celebratory of the academically gifted children.
8. We have always created somewhat different standards for athletically gifted children, but we have been corrupted further by the incredible influx of money into athletics at every level.
9. We have in an attempt to 'raise standards' stifled creativity in education - we 'teach to the test' now rather than teach, penalize creatively wrong answers, and have underfunded or cut the creative non-core curriculum that stimulated and broadened our students education.

And on a slightly political level
10. We put incredible power into the hands of local school boards and allow them to redefine course curriculum for ideological reasons and not for educational reasons.
11. We accept and celebrate politicians who say 'I'm not a scientist, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night, and ....' and then put them in charge of science and technology.
12. We exchange news for commentary and entertainment, debate for demagoguery, and 'balance' for fact.
13. We exchange sound bites for insight.
14. We create incredible wealth opportunities for moderately capable people and little support for teachers and are then surprised that our pool of qualified teachers shrinks.

Sorry for the diatribe - but I feel strongly that we as a society get the educational system we deserve and the focus on teachers and schools as opposed to the communities and society in which they operate is the main reason that 'fixing our broken system' is something we have been unable to do.


I think you make many excellent points.

IMO in order for education to be truly successful it must be a partnership between communities & schools.

If a child hasn't been prepared to attend school he or she can't possibly benefit from the experience.
 

Husky25

Dink & Dunk beat the Greatest Show on Turf.
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
18,529
Reaction Score
19,519
Interesting difference between how media has taken Roy Williams and former UNC Men's Basketball staff members to task for this, but women's basketball media has pretty much left their women's program alone. The report issued stated something like 100+ UNC women's basketball players were connected to the academic fraud. This is when gender-based discrimination actually helps women.

The WBB program will probably get the brunt of the sanctions (if any). It will really go to show that outside a few pockets, women's basketball doesn't move the needle. The NCAA NEEDS to appease 5CSMA football and Men's basketball. Title IX still exists because, by and large, the NCAA leans, toward the misogynistic end of the scale and that ain't ending anytime soon.
 

CL82

NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
57,673
Reaction Score
212,505
Everyone likes to point at 'educational standards' and wring their hands at how they have declined and point at teachers and schools and wash their hands of responsibility. I think it is a much bigger societal problem that involves parents and the community and changes in societies expectations. And it probably started right after WWII with the GI bill (which was great legislation, but began the over emphasis on everyone getting a college education and the devaluing of 'vocational' training.)
1. We now as a society expect elementary and secondary public schools to educate everyone to college entry level regardless of innate ability.
2. We expect them to provide discipline and structure to children that for 16 hours a day and weekends receive neither.
3. We expect them to 'mainstream' severely learning challenged children within the same format with 'gifted' students and without regard for cost or the penalty we impose on standard students when their teachers devote a large portion of their energy on those with learning/behavioral challenges.
4. We have created a legal and societal shift where when failure occurs it is the presumption that the teacher, school, and administration is at fault and not the child or the parent or the community.
5. We have created an expectation that all effort is equal by giving prizes to all contestants, giving presents to all attendees at birthday parties, and that anything less than an 'A' needs to be justified by the grader and not the gradee.
6. We have created a children's drug culture that medicates every non-perfect behavioral characteristic with powerful drugs.
7. We have always created heroes out of athletically gifted children, but we have over recent times become less celebratory of the academically gifted children.
8. We have always created somewhat different standards for athletically gifted children, but we have been corrupted further by the incredible influx of money into athletics at every level.
9. We have in an attempt to 'raise standards' stifled creativity in education - we 'teach to the test' now rather than teach, penalize creatively wrong answers, and have underfunded or cut the creative non-core curriculum that stimulated and broadened our students education.

And on a slightly political level
10. We put incredible power into the hands of local school boards and allow them to redefine course curriculum for ideological reasons and not for educational reasons.
11. We accept and celebrate politicians who say 'I'm not a scientist, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night, and ....' and then put them in charge of science and technology.
12. We exchange news for commentary and entertainment, debate for demagoguery, and 'balance' for fact.
13. We exchange sound bites for insight.
14. We create incredible wealth opportunities for moderately capable people and little support for teachers and are then surprised that our pool of qualified teachers shrinks.

Sorry for the diatribe - but I feel strongly that we as a society get the educational system we deserve and the focus on teachers and schools as opposed to the communities and society in which they operate is the main reason that 'fixing our broken system' is something we have been unable to do.
I liked this for the passion. Have to respect someone with a thought out opinion and willingness voice it.
 

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,273
Reaction Score
16,870
Everyone likes to point at 'educational standards' and wring their hands at how they have declined and point at teachers and schools and wash their hands of responsibility. I think it is a much bigger societal problem that involves parents and the community and changes in societies expectations. And it probably started right after WWII with the GI bill (which was great legislation, but began the over emphasis on everyone getting a college education and the devaluing of 'vocational' training.)

3. We expect them to 'mainstream' severely learning challenged children within the same format with 'gifted' students and without regard for cost or the penalty we impose on standard students when their teachers devote a large portion of their energy on those with learning/behavioral challenges.

Having recently come out of the education wars, your number 3 is the key for me.

Not so long ago there was tracking and an altogether not bad Vocational High School system where those students seemingly not qualified (for a myriad of reasons) to continue towards a college prep degree could develop important skills in order to succeed in the workplace.

The current regime in which everyone is shoehorned into academic success or nothing is completely unworkable and self-defeating in which everyone is victimized: exceptional students because they cannot get the attention they deserve and require; teachers and administrators because their job has been rendered functionally impossible, and lower level students, all lumped together even with special-ed because they never had a chance in this environment.

Eventually, some genius (s) will figure this out and things will slowly begin to return to a sane policy

But it's going to take a decade or two of massive failure; really too bad.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
2,676
Reaction Score
6,257
Interesting difference between how media has taken Roy Williams and former UNC Men's Basketball staff members to task for this, but women's basketball media has pretty much left their women's program alone. The report issued stated something like 100+ UNC women's basketball players were connected to the academic fraud. This is when gender-based discrimination actually helps women.
Or where it actually hurts women. Can't expect equality when different standards are applied.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
424
Reaction Score
1,322
The educational standards in the USA has been declining for quite some time now. The emphasis being on quantity rather than quality. This creates the illusion of both production while producing more profit. Lets not fool ourselves our Institutions of higher learning have been geared to profit rather than our societies educational needs for decades.

I agree with the decline but I attribute it to something broader and deeper than quantity or profit. We are trying to hold educators responsibility for the failure of some students to learn. More than have the education of a student though is done in the home, not in school. The schools cannot make up for the lack of education that should be done in the home. Until we address that issue, we will throw money at the problem and blame the educators. Just to choose a simple example, I don't hear of any research done on Asian students that shows they have any learning gap.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
373
Guests online
2,464
Total visitors
2,837

Forum statistics

Threads
157,639
Messages
4,116,590
Members
10,007
Latest member
macklin


Top Bottom