Lady vols lose, Margo goes off

[EricLA]

Margot's rant about the Tennessee loss to Alabama...



She blasted the players, not the coach. "There was nothing. Diamond Deshields was diving for a loose ball and she got hit - cracked neck - if that isn't enough motivation to at least win the game... not one person other than Shaquila Nunn comes into the game with something in their minds - to say 'we ain't losing this game'.

Jordan Reynolds - no show. You did nothing. that freshman PG (from Alabama) outplayed you. a freshman PG schooled Jordan Reynolds tonight.

there was no emotion. No fire. There was nothing. Mercedes got 5 people around her and sh e's trying to dribble the bal. WHY? Everytime she put the ball on the floor it got taken. In a game where you lose your super star, you still have no fire. That's what made me most upset."

There's a lot more. She did not blame the coach one bit. She said it was horrible. Effort - all on the players. An upper-classman laden team performed like they did. She was super upset to say the least. I love listening to her after a loss - not because I love seeing Tennessee lose (which I do), but because she keeps it really real and tells it like it is. No one can deny her passion or love for her team. I'd love to meet her and talk hoops.

 

[JordyG]

Listening to Margot is always a breath of fresh air. She keeps it real, no doubt. Every true fan of every sport should show such passion and loyalty.

But I disagree with her premise. Of course it's the fault of coaching. Coaches don't teach effort or character. No, coaches recruit for these characteristics. Can your player keep their heads under pressure, will they go through a brick wall until the whistle blows, will they support their teammates no matter how well they themselves are doing in the game, will their will to win and compete push them through physical or mental difficulties etc? These are the things coaches should be pondering over well before they tender an offer. Just amassing a team full of McDonald AA's is not the way to build a championship. It is a way to build a team full of head cases.

 

[watanabe]

Margot's rant about the Tennessee loss to Alabama..



She blasted the players, not the coach. "There was nothing. Diamond Deshields was diving for a loose ball and she got hit - cracked neck - if that isn't enough motivation to at least win the game.. not one person other than Shaquila Nunn comes into the game with something in their minds - to say 'we ain't losing this game'.

Jordan Reynolds - no show. You did nothing. that freshman PG (from Alabama) outplayed you. a freshman PG schooled Jordan Reynolds tonight.

there was no emotion. No fire. There was nothing. Mercedes got 5 people around her and sh e's trying to dribble the bal. WHY? Everytime she put the ball on the floor it got taken. In a game where you lose your super star, you still have no fire. That's what made me most upset."

There's a lot more. She did not blame the coach one bit. She said it was horrible. Effort - all on the players. An upper-classman laden team performed like they did. She was super upset to say the least. I love listening to her after a loss - not because I love seeing Tennessee lose (which I do), but because she keeps it really real and tells it like it is. No one can deny her passion or love for her team. I'd love to meet her and talk hoops.

At the end of the game she wasn't even watching. Seemed like she was distracted by her mortality as HC. Goodbye Holly. Don't let the door hit you in the button on the way oit.

 

[Rocket009]

I think we need to invite Margot to become a UCONN fan. With passion like that, she deserves to root for a team that shows up every night and puts in 100% every time they take the floor. I worried that if she continues to root for Tennessee, she may become depressed. We simply can't allow that to happen.

 

[Bigpetunia]

I'm a big Margo fan...it's easy to mock her but she gets the fundamentals of the game and I love her passion for it. Too bad for her that her favorite team has become so mercurial, with the temperature mostly hovering at the low end.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Listening to Margot is always a breath of fresh air. She keeps it real, no doubt. Every true fan of every sport should show such passion and loyalty.

But I disagree with her premise. Of course it's the fault of coaching. Coaches don't teach effort or character. No, coaches recruit for these characteristics. Can your player keep their heads under pressure, will they go through a brick wall until the whistle blows, will they support their teammates no matter how well they themselves are doing in the game, will their will to win and compete push them through physical or mental difficulties etc? These are the things coaches should be pondering over well before they tender an offer. Just amassing a team full of McDonald AA's is not the way to build a championship. It is a way to build a team full of head cases.

Thank you Jordy, the coaching ... THE COACHING!!! Not that players are blameless at times..... but it ALWAYS comes down to the coaching because they are the ones who control the ship and can alter course , make changes, and steer the way they want the program to go..... How many times do we hear that "the other team just wanted it more" ?? It is a broken record... Holly, why do you not sit the players down if they do not want to put out effort? If they do not want to get in defensive stance? If they want to break a press by dribbling along the sidelines?

This is all on Holly.... and the whopper of a statement I always hear from her which I love is "i do not know what is wrong with us. If I knew I certainly would fix it".... Anyone who knew a morsel about basketball or even team sports would be able to see how incompetent she is.... However it is not my issue. As far as I am concerned...... bring her back year after year! Mercedes and Diamond your amazing players...... come on back for another year.... do not go to the draft.... we like your team expectations high.... we know that you will achieve nothing with a know-nothing leading you.....

A great performance vs. Notre Dame.... where is that effort each and every night? and by the way, where is the rest of the coaching staff... Lockwood, Law, etc... they cannot be that bad can they? I do not have a dog in the fight.... I do not even take great delight in the LVs losing.... I just hate the brand of basketball they play (Holly said it again tonight... defense and rebounding).... it is different game now from when Pat ruled the courts.... and aside from that, if it was about defense and rebounding..... why do you allow your team to get out hustled for 22 offensive boards? Why does the front player who was #6 recruit in entire country get 3 rebounds vs physically outmatched Alabama team.

Tennessee is nowhere. And for Margo, whose passion I love, I feel badly.

 

[arty155]

She blasted the players, not the coach...

- Its not the players...

- I enjoyed the 2014 video of Jay Bilas, Coach Auriemma, Coach Kevin Ollie, and other BB coaches taking the time to present a Pentagon leadership seminar. It's always fun, and instructive, to study what works well (or badly) in coaching sports, and relate it to military leadership.

-From a military perspective, it is a fundamental responsibility of every leader to lead, teach, correct, care for, and motivate their team members every day. Every leader. It does not matter whether you are a Marine, a mom,... or both.

- Listening to Coach Warlick repeatedly complain at press conferences that the teams she leads suffer - on a prolonged, recurring basis - from poor motivation, ... therefore seems a straightforward admission she is simply ineffective at critical part of her job as a leader. Particularly so, considering her players were not dredged from a gutter by an impress gang... but recruited by herself.

- Like Coach Auriemma, Coach Bonaparte had a knack for keeping it simple:
"There are no bad regiments, only bad colonels." - Napoleon

 

[Sonny44]

Listening to Margot is always a breath of fresh air. She keeps it real, no doubt. Every true fan of every sport should show such passion and loyalty.
Just amassing a team full of McDonald AA's is not the way to build a championship. It is a way to build a team full of head cases.

I agree. But I submit that coaches can and should build character. It is part of everyone's education whether in the classroom or on the court. Effort, unselfishness and self sacrifice can be taught and augmented from whatever level they come in with. Step one could be playing this video to the team; maybe a few times. It has to be drummed in at every practice until it becomes their culture. Raw talent can't be taught but quality of character can; witness Kelly Faris.
Every parent should be cognizant of this; realizing that picking the right school, teachers, coaches, piano teachers all have a direct impact on the development of our youth especially in these unfortunate days of single parent families.

 

[oldude]

With DD out, for who knows how long, there has to be serious concern in Knoxville whether the Vols will even make it to the Big Dance. If they drop a few more games in the regular season and then bomb out of the SEC tournament, their NCAA hopes may be toast.

 

[HoopsFan21]

How did Warlick land the best recruiting class? That's some kind of magic. Remember what Geno said to the team during the first fall practice? "We don't have to coach energy and effort. That's what other coaches have to do. If we had to coach effort you wouldn't be here." Warlick to me is not good at the Xs and Os part of the job, and doesn't strike me as one who is a good motivator because she probably never had to be as an assistant while Coach Summitt was a legend at that aspect of the job. Or it could just be the kids today, and Geno and CD have been damn lucky to never have issues with effort. The Vols just play like they have no direction and don't really care.

 

[wire chief]

Are we at the point where we see that the players no longer want to play for Holly?

 

[oldude]

Are we at the point where we see that the players no longer want to play for Holly?

Great question. I said once that if Geno asked one of his players to run through a wall, they would lower their heads and sprint towards the nearest wall they could find. In Holly's case, she can't seem to get her players to consistently run up and down the court.

I feel sorry for her in a sense. She stepped into the shoes of a legend and was woefully unprepared for the task at hand.

 

[Carnac]

I'm a big Margo fan...it's easy to mock her but she gets the fundamentals of the game and I love her passion for it. Too bad for her that her favorite team has become so mercurial, with the temperature mostly hovering at the low end.

I'm a big fan of hers also. She's become a small time media sensation. She almost lost her mind when they beat South Carolina. She was fun to watch that night, not so much after this loss.
She is pis**d.

 

[VAMike23]

She was fun to watch that night, not so much after this loss.

Wait - how is that not fun....?

 

[Carnac]

With DD out, for who knows how long, there has to be serious concern in Knoxville whether the Vols will even make it to the Big Dance. If they drop a few more games in the regular season and then bomb out of the SEC tournament, their NCAA hopes may be toast.

I say again, Diamond was not coming back next year. If she misses the rest of the season, and the team bombs out, internal turmoil and chaos would ensue, and and Vol Nation would erupt.
Holly is walking on "rice paper" (a reference from the Kung TV program from the 80's, i.e., she's not cutting it) and she leaving tracks. We all know the majority of the Lady Vol faithfuls want her gone.

 

[sarals24]

My favorite idea posted "elsewhere" on the interwebs is that Tyler Summit is owed another shot by Tennessee. Oh my.

 

[EricLA]

Great question. I said once that if Geno asked one of his players to run through a wall, they would lower their heads and sprint towards the nearest wall they could find. In Holly's case, she can't seem to get her players to consistently run up and down the court.

I feel sorry for her in a sense. She stepped into the shoes of a legend and was woefully unprepared for the task at hand.

I disagree with the woefully unprepared part and here's why. She pretty much runs the same "non" offense and defense that Pat ran. Holly worked for/with Pat for 27 years. She helped and watched Pat every single day. Pat was never a great offensive mastermind. She won by recruiting superior athletes, getting them to play tenacious defense, and relied on offensive rebounds, or tremendous 1 on 1 play, to score.

Towards the end of Pat's career, she was not able to recruit enough top players to compensate for her lack of offense. Other teams caught up and because of superior coaching, were able to catch and pass them. Holly is the same kind of coach. She has actually recruited better than Pat over Pat's last 5 years (Russell, Nared, Deshields, Cooper, Westbrook, Hayes, Davis). She already has 2 top 30 kids from 2018 - it remains to be seen if she can get any of the top kids in that class.

Point is, after Parker/Bjorkland/Baugh, Pat didn't recruit that well (of course it's relative - she still got some high ranked kids). But... she mostly had players like Spani, Dupree, Williams, Phillips, Harrison, Carter, Simmons, Avant, Massengale, Burdick, Jones, Graves, Moore, etc. I think Graves, Burdick and Massengale were top 5, but Ariel clearly was over rated. Not a single "top" player (Warlick landed Russell I think and now Westbrook and also convinced Diamond to come to Tenn). That's way more top talent than Pat towards the end.

The problem is something Holly got bashed for on here, but also something Geno agrees with - most kids these days don't have the passion for the game that their predecessors did. Kids don't spend hours in the gym, watching game tape, working on every weakness of their game. They don't eat, sleep, live, etc. for basketball. It's more about "what can your university do for me?". Geno is smart enough NOT to recruit those kids. But the ones like the incredible players on this year's team are becoming fewer and farther between. He often makes mistakes like with Ekmark, Edwards and Boykin - misreading desire to work hard, ability to go to school far from home, or just plain potential. But way more often he gets kids that may not be #1 (Nurse, Williams, Chong), but who work their collective asses off to be better than almost anyone thought they could be, and who subjugate their own personal accolades or awards for the betterment of the team and potential NC's. Oh, and he also gets his fair share of uber top recruits (Collier, Samuelson, Dangerfield, Walker).

I do have to agree that Holly is one of the few coaches who has done far far less with the "more" that she has, and I think she is flat out the wrong coach for the type of kids she has/recruits. She needs kids who are willing to work their asses off to play the kind of defense required in spite of no offense, but very few coaches find players like that... and I do agree her lack of coaching ability to get the most out of her kids is on very bright display. Having said that, next year she gets her PG back (Cooper). Even if DD and Russell leave early, she will have Nared, Westbrook, Hayes and Davis. If somehow she's able to convince either/or to come back, they will be a formidable team.

IMHO what she is woefully unprepared for is the shift of attitude of high school players and the ability to evolve as an offensive and defensive coach. But that's not an issue of preparedness, rather just of being a bad coach.

 

[oldude]

I disagree with the woefully unprepared part and here's why. She pretty much runs the same "non" offense and defense that Pat ran. Holly worked for/with Pat for 27 years. She helped and watched Pat every single day. Pat was never a great offensive mastermind. She won by recruiting superior athletes, getting them to play tenacious defense, and relied on offensive rebounds, or tremendous 1 on 1 play, to score.

Towards the end of Pat's career, she was not able to recruit enough top players to compensate for her lack of offense. Other teams caught up and because of superior coaching, were able to catch and pass them. Holly is the same kind of coach. She has actually recruited better than Pat over Pat's last 5 years (Russell, Nared, Deshields, Cooper, Westbrook, Hayes, Davis). She already has 2 top 30 kids from 2018 - it remains to be seen if she can get any of the top kids.

Point is, after Parker/Bjorkland/Baugh, Pat didn't recruit that well (of course it's relative - she still got some top kids). Sure she got a few top 5 kids, but she mostly had players like Spani, Dupree, Williams, Phillips, Harrison, Carter, Simmons, Avant, Massengale, Burdick, Jones, Graves, Moore, etc. I think Graves, Burdick and Massengale were top 5, but Ariel clearly was over rated. Not a single "top" player (Warlick landed Russell I think and now Westbrook and also convinced Diamond to come to Tenn). That's way more top talent that Pat towards the end.

The problem is something Holly got bashed for on here, but also something Geno agrees with - most kids these days don't have the passion for the game that their predecessors did. Kids don't spend hours in the gym, watching game tape, working on every weakness of their game. They don't eat, sleep, live, etc. for basketball. It's more about "what can your university do for me?". Geno is smart enough NOT to recruit those kids. But the ones like the incredible players on this year's team are becoming fewer and farther between. He often makes mistakes like with Ekmark, Edwards and Boykin - misreading desire to work hard, ability to go to school far from home, or just plain potential. But way more often he gets kids that may not be #1 (Nurse, Williams, Chong), but who work their collective asses off to be better than almost anyone thought they could be, and who subjugate their own personal accolades or awards for the betterment of the team and potential NC's. Oh, and he also gets his fair share of uber top recruits (Collier, Samuelson, Dangerfield, Walker).

I do have to agree that Holly is one of the few coaches who has done far far less with the "more" that she has, and I think she is flat out the wrong coach for the type of kids she has/recruits. She needs kids who are willing to work their asses off to play the kind of defense required in spite of no offense, but very few coaches find players like that... and I do agree her lack of coaching ability to get the most out of her kids is on very bright display. Having said that, next year she gets her PG back (Cooper). Even if DD and Russell leave early, she will have Nared, Westbrook, Hayes and Davis. If somehow she's able to convince either/or to come back, they will be a formidable team.

IMHO what she is woefully unprepared for is the shift of attitude of high school players and the ability to evolve as an offensive and defensive coach. But that's not an issue of preparedness, rather just of being a bad coach.

I appreciate your comments but I'm not talking about Holly's ability to coach x's & o's. I am specifically talking about Holly's ability to motivate players. Pat had that ability and Holly clearly does not. IMO, that inability is where Holly was woefully unprepared to take over for Pat.

 

[Willie E.Gold]

Please explain :Geno and CD have been lucky to never have issues with effort .Where does lucky fit in?

 

[augustaTC]

Geno & CD have had a lot of issues with effort over the years, primarily inconsistent effort, usually with newer players. But someone with that "issue" learns pretty quickly to reach down and dig deep or get used to the bench. As noted, "lucky" has nothing to do with it. The kids either come in with effort built in (Kia is the current poster child IMO), learn to develop it pretty quickly (good program/good coaching), or fade away.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Please explain :Geno and CD have been lucky to never have issues with effort .Where does lucky fit in?

Lucky as in it has not become a program derailing issue over the 30+ year run as it has recently for Tennessee. Geno and CD have taken lazy kids before, but they usually transfer out before it becomes a cancer that affects the whole team.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I disagree with the woefully unprepared part and here's why. She pretty much runs the same "non" offense and defense that Pat ran. Holly worked for/with Pat for 27 years. She helped and watched Pat every single day. Pat was never a great offensive mastermind. She won by recruiting superior athletes, getting them to play tenacious defense, and relied on offensive rebounds, or tremendous 1 on 1 play, to score.

I do have to agree that Holly is one of the few coaches who has done far far less with the "more" that she has, and I think she is flat out the wrong coach for the type of kids she has/recruits. She needs kids who are willing to work their asses off to play the kind of defense required in spite of no offense, but very few coaches find players like that... and I do agree her lack of coaching ability to get the most out of her kids is on very bright display. Having said that, next year she gets her PG back (Cooper). Even if DD and Russell leave early, she will have Nared, Westbrook, Hayes and Davis. If somehow she's able to convince either/or to come back, they will be a formidable team.

Good thoughts Eric.... Holly and Mickie DeMoss were wonderful assistants for Pat.... but were extensions of her.... and Pat had to take responsibility for recommending someone for the HC position who was temperamentally ill suited for it. Whereas Pat accomplished things by sheer will, Holly has trouble squeezing the juice out of an orange. She is much more the rah rah type.... and she expects kids to motivate themselves.... I remember the HC gig was not right for Mickie either.... and she has publicly stated that many times.... neither one of these TN assistants is an alpha dog.

As for next year's teaming Knoxville, it will be interesting to see if DD and/or Mercedes stays.... I do not know why they would.... what is in it for them? .... but if they do stay, it will not exactly shake the foundation of SEC opponents. They will still play hard only when they choose, Mercedes will be woeful on defense, and Diamond will have her usual basket of turnovers each game.... IMHO, it will not matter at all if they return to UT next year. Neither is a game changer as they play now. Diamond is dynamic and talented, but the old adage I am reminded of.... hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

 

[JordyG]

I agree. But I submit that coaches can and should build character. It is part of everyone's education whether in the classroom or on the court. Effort, unselfishness and self sacrifice can be taught and augmented from whatever level they come in with. Step one could be playing this video to the team; maybe a few times. It has to be drummed in at every practice until it becomes their culture. Raw talent can't be taught but quality of character can; witness Kelly Faris.
Every parent should be cognizant of this; realizing that picking the right school, teachers, coaches, piano teachers all have a direct impact on the development of our youth especially in these unfortunate days of single parent families.

Geno had a story about Svetlana Abrosimova and how often his criticism would be received with a blank stare. How she would pretend not to understand English when he'd ask her to share the ball and set picks for teammates. Her response was "Why should I give up the shot when I have the ball? I didn't come 7,ooo miles to set screens". Yeah you can implore players to pass, share the ball, to set screens, and show them the proper ways to do it. But if it's not in the players nature to do it, why should they? Geno knew what he recruited and lived with it. Raw talent like Gabby can ALWAYS be honed like a dull Damascus blade, taught ways to improve their skills. But the need to compete, to excel, to be a good teammate, those qualities are innate. A coach can draw them out, but you can't draw blood from a stone. Building character and teaching it are two different things.

 

[JellyBean]

Love the passion she has for her team. I am of the mindset that it is on the players to bring the "fire" or "energy". They have to put forth the effort. Coach Warlick aint out there playing. This loss is on the players. They need to hold themselves accountable. Like Margot said, one of the players needs to step up and say "We are not playing up to Lady Vol standards and living up to the core values of Tennessee women's basketball".

 

[EricLA]

Good thoughts Eric.... Holly and Mickie DeMoss were wonderful assistants for Pat.... but were extensions of her.... and Pat had to take responsibility for recommending someone for the HC position who was temperamentally ill suited for it. Whereas Pat accomplished things by sheer will, Holly has trouble squeezing the juice out of an orange. She is much more the rah rah type.... and she expects kids to motivate themselves.... I remember the HC gig was not right for Mickie either.... and she has publicly stated that many times.... neither one of these TN assistants is an alpha dog.

As for next year's teaming Knoxville, it will be interesting to see if DD and/or Mercedes stays.... I do not know why they would.... what is in it for them? .... but if they do stay, it will not exactly shake the foundation of SEC opponents. They will still play hard only when they choose, Mercedes will be woeful on defense, and Diamond will have her usual basket of turnovers each game.... IMHO, it will not matter at all if they return to UT next year. Neither is a game changer as they play now. Diamond is dynamic and talented, but the old adage I am reminded of.... hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Great points. You said what I was trying to, but in a much shorter post LOL! I agree - Holly is not temperamentally suited to be a head coach. That's not the same as being woefully unprepared. Working with and for a legend for 27 years is preparation enough for anyone who's also good enough...