Lack of Talent: Players/Coaching | The Boneyard

Lack of Talent: Players/Coaching

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I dont fully understand how the blame is on not having the best football players. Isn't that what coaches are for? To "coach" the players and make them better?

It doesnt take a million dollar per year coach to win with a stable of prime time studs.

someone please give me some more insight. I played a lot of sports growing up in HS and a little in college and after college. I'm having a hard time understanding this.
We lost to WMU and Temple for Christs sake.
 
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we lack coaches who can actually coach and a real athletic director, it's like Hathaway never went away and morphed into pillsbury doughboy
 

Adesmar123

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Oh no! Now I will have thoughts all day about the Stay Puff marshmallow man!!!!!!
 
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I've never understood he rush to say "PP says we don't have good enough players." I never saw that. I did hear him say we needed to recruit better players, but what coach does not say that? Maybe I missed a quote
 
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you can't coach height, weight or speed
also a lot of guys have strength ceilings....can't coach that either, just look at the beasts on the "big boy" squads, or even WVU who just gives the ball to Austin and he runs at 100 mph

That's why I'm really excited about these recruiting classes coming in, a lot of the lineman already at 300 lbs which is something we NEVER saw, example Kendall Reyes coming in at 215 leaving at 295
 
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Lets look at talent from another angle....as an example.

Pick any academic discipline.......say math. (arithmetic thru calculus)

Some students in a math class have an aptitude to grasp the concepts and succeed, and some don't (often despite extra help by the teacher). For the sake of this illustration, I will assume the teacher is well credentialed and respected by peers.

Now would it be safe to say a student that excels in the calculus class is more skilled in math than the student that struggles in calculus but does fine with arithmetic. Doesn't imply that the latter student is stupid, only that they can't develop the skills required by higher level math exercises.

The same could be said for the degrees of talent in any sport. Some athletes have a lower ceiling of achievement than others. Some can hit home runs, some can't. All would be better than me!

UConn's recruiting classes have historically been rated lower than others when accessing talent. Many had few or no offers.....and those that had other offers, many were from 1-aa or MAC/C-USA type schools. Yes, some have had other BCS offers, but not a multitude of other BCS offers. Ofter RE proclaimed them as "under the radar".

Yes... there are good coaches and bad coaches. But you are not going to get a bunch of league or national championships with a team of under the radar type athletes. I don't care who the coach is.

There are a lot of suggestions of who would be desirable coaches when RE left, and if/when PP leaves. None of these potential acclaimed coaches established their resumes with squads of athletes that had low ceilings. More likely than not, the majority of the players in their recruited classes had higher ceilings than UConns.

Lets me make this clear......I am not criticizing our players. They all tried their best to be successful at the FBS level......some could, some couldn't. Some may be more successful at the FCS level.......their ceiling is lower.

Incoming talent, wether at the athlete or coaches level DOES matter.
 
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you can't coach height, weight or speed
also a lot of guys have strength ceilings....can't coach that either, just look at the beasts on the "big boy" squads, or even WVU who just gives the ball to Austin and he runs at 100 mph

That's why I'm really excited about these recruiting classes coming in, a lot of the lineman already at 300 lbs which is something we NEVER saw, example Kendall Reyes coming in at 215 leaving at 295

O.K. The flip side of that, of course, is what are the odds that any DT who comes into the program is going to be even as good as Kendall Reyes just because they are heavier when they come in?
 

Husky25

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You can't coach height, but speed, quickness, reflexes, weight, strength, and durability are all coachable and can be improved upon. These guys are not fully grown at 18 years old. The problem is the coaching staff is using 1990's techniques in 2012.

I just re-watched Live Free or Die Harder (guilty pleassure) and the following is so apt. Similar to John McClane, the offensive coaching staff is, "...a Timex watch in a digital age." - Thomas Gabriel

(Ironically, many Timex watches had digital displays back in the day.)
 
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The truth is somewhere in between. I don't think we had the talent (on offense) to compete for a league title. But I don't think we had 5 win talent either. Especially against our schedule.

It is so obvious that the horde, specifically Silver, Dez, and Ed D are being fed this lack of talent BS from P & D. I have no idea why they are aligning themselves with the staff on what is so brutally and painfully obvious to the rest of the world.

Our last 2 years on offense we ranked right around 110th in the country both years. What other school on this planet keeps their OC after 2 years of that kind of performance?
 
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Lets look at talent from another angle....as an example.

Pick any academic discipline.......say math. (arithmetic thru calculus)

quote]
i wont accept that math analogy. Math can be tought to anyone who cares enough to learn it and put in the work. Im an engineer. did all kinds of math, and i wasnt the smartest guy in the class. still got through it all and did very well.
 

UConnDan97

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The truth is somewhere in between. I don't think we had the talent (on offense) to compete for a league title. But I don't think we had 5 win talent either. Especially against our schedule.

It is so obvious that the horde, specifically Silver, Dez, and Ed D are being fed this lack of talent BS from P & D. I have no idea why they are aligning themselves with the staff on what is so brutally and painfully obvious to the rest of the world.

Our last 2 years on offense we ranked right around 110th in the country both years. What other school on this planet keeps their OC after 2 years of that kind of performance?

I agree with this sentiment also.

It seems clear to me that we lacked the skilled players on the offensive side of the ball, particularly on the OLine (whether it was due to youth, inexperience, more weightroom time needed, getting used to a new system, or whatever). But it can't be said enough that this team should never have had a 5-win ceiling, especially when considering how good the defense was.

I put up a thread about two weeks ago asking just how different or complex this new system is, in order to guage whether it's the talent or the coaching. I think that I gathered enough info from people that I consider to be knowledgeable on this board, as well as my own observations, to determine that the answer is "both"...
 

UConnDan97

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i wont accept that math analogy. Math can be tought to anyone who cares enough to learn it and put in the work. Im an engineer. did all kinds of math, and i wasnt the smartest guy in the class. still got through it all and did very well

Not completely true (I understand your point on principle, but...). Math can be learned by anyone who puts in the time and has a teacher(s) who finds an effective way to help transfer the information to the student. I'm a living example of that when it comes to Calculus (I have a great story that involves a teacher named Professor Wickless at UConn who used a story from the Greek, Zeno of Elea, to help explain to me what Calculus truly was, and it changed my mathematical life....but that's for another thread). Students definitely matter, but so do teachers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_of_Elea
 

CTBasketball

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I believe that with good coaching you can go far. Look at Edsall, love him or hate him he took nothing and made winners. We had a run of really good, winning teams. I think our highest recruit was Dwayne Difton, and we all know how he panned out.
 
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UConn's recruiting classes have historically been rated lower than others when accessing talent. Many had few or no offers.....and those that had other offers, many were from 1-aa or MAC/C-USA type schools. Yes, some have had other BCS offers, but not a multitude of other BCS offers. Ofter RE proclaimed them as "under the radar".

Yes... there are good coaches and bad coaches. But you are not going to get a bunch of league or national championships with a team of under the radar type athletes. I don't care who the coach is.

There are a lot of suggestions of who would be desirable coaches when RE left, and if/when PP leaves. None of these potential acclaimed coaches established their resumes with squads of athletes that had low ceilings. More likely than not, the majority of the players in their recruited classes had higher ceilings than UConns.

Lets me make this clear......I am not criticizing our players. They all tried their best to be successful at the FBS level......some could, some couldn't. Some may be more successful at the FCS level.......their ceiling is lower.

Incoming talent, wether at the athlete or coaches level DOES matter.

Great post. It is the reality of UConn's situation. Randy couldn't recruit - definitely not on offense and certainly not in the volume needed to be an elite Big East team. Paul has shown very little to date. His uninspiring efforts to date leave little suggestion for improve. Paul needs to go and we need someone who can start recruiting at an acceptable level. I hate the term "under-the-radar". Just shouldn't have to be dependent on them.
 

SubbaBub

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The truth is somewhere in between. I don't think we had the talent (on offense) to compete for a league title. But I don't think we had 5 win talent either. Especially against our schedule.

It is so obvious that the horde, specifically Silver, Dez, and Ed D are being fed this lack of talent BS from P & D. I have no idea why they are aligning themselves with the staff on what is so brutally and painfully obvious to the rest of the world.

Our last 2 years on offense we ranked right around 110th in the country both years. What other school on this planet keeps their OC after 2 years of that kind of performance?

This is a valid pre-season statement. The games we lost and how we lost them had nothing to do with talent. We were talented enough to win every game.



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If Edsall was here we go bowling the last 2 seasons. Say what you want about his recruiting, the man won football games here. Whether you liked the offense or not, he at least had an identity and it produced W's.

Now we are left with a new O line coach who obviously hasn't produced any results with that unit. Might have been the worst the O line has looked since we moved to 1A. Coach P is responsible for this because DeLeone is his right hand man.
 
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When an OC tries to teach a pro scheme to college kids who never had a whiff of said scheme in high school you bet the OL is going to look bad.

NFL players are the best of the best and it takes them plenty of practice time to just be average in some cases.

GDL's biggest mistake was to go full bore with his zone crap right out of the gate and sent the entire offense into a "who the is this clown" mode.

I'd love to know if any other college uses this blocking scheme with any success.
 

SubbaBub

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If I have to pick one thing, the decision to play with lighter, speedier lineman is the biggest strategic mistake this coaching staff made. It was made in the off season and when it became clear it wasn't going to work, it was too late.

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The problem is there is no identity or continuity to what he is doing on offense. It is very predictable and not hard for defenses to scheme accordingly.

Talk all you want about talent, the OC just didn't put the personnel we had in a position to be successful. I don't care what the blocking scheme is, your not going to run on 8 in the box with much success.
 
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The truth is somewhere in between. I don't think we had the talent (on offense) to compete for a league title. But I don't think we had 5 win talent either. Especially against our schedule.

It is so obvious that the horde, specifically Silver, Dez, and Ed D are being fed this lack of talent BS from P & D. I have no idea why they are aligning themselves with the staff on what is so brutally and painfully obvious to the rest of the world.

Our last 2 years on offense we ranked right around 110th in the country both years. What other school on this planet keeps their OC after 2 years of that kind of performance?

It is not brutally obvious to me. I look at our O-line and I literally do not know if it's scheme or just terrible talent. But I look at our WR's who drop balls and I know it ain't scheme.

I suspect the truth, as always, is much more nuanced than a bunch of message board posters would have you believe. You may see things in black and white and say, well, Pasqualoni has clearly failed. I'm not ready do say that. I think it is plausible that Edsall truly left the cupboard pretty bare and we are paying the price for it. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't see how anybody could truly know.

I know that P has some issue, like clock management. I also know that Edsall has some issues, like running the ball 80% of the time, but at least he had a decent O-line and some great RB's. Do we have that now? I have no idea.

But you don't speak for me or "the rest of the world."
 

UConnDan97

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It is not brutally obvious to me. I look at our O-line and I literally do not know if it's scheme or just terrible talent. But I look at our WR's who drop balls and I know it ain't scheme.

I suspect the truth, as always, is much more nuanced than a bunch of message board posters would have you believe. You may see things in black and white and say, well, Pasqualoni has clearly failed. I'm not ready do say that. I think it is plausible that Edsall truly left the cupboard pretty bare and we are paying the price for it. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't see how anybody could truly know.

I know that P has some issue, like clock management. I also know that Edsall has some issues, like running the ball 80% of the time, but at least he had a decent O-line and some great RB's. Do we have that now? I have no idea.

But you don't speak for me or "the rest of the world."

I agree with your sentiment. I truly believe that there are deficiencies in both the roster and in the manner in which the coaching staff has used the roster. To what degree each side was responsible for the losses is always up for debate. But as you said, the truth is always "much more nuanced" than just black and white...
 
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So let's get new players (ie, recruit a lot better, particularly on the offensive side) and let's get a new coach (ie, one that recruits a lot better and can gameplan and use the roster a lot better).
 
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It is not brutally obvious to me. I look at our O-line and I literally do not know if it's scheme or just terrible talent. But I look at our WR's who drop balls and I know it ain't scheme.

I suspect the truth, as always, is much more nuanced than a bunch of message board posters would have you believe. You may see things in black and white and say, well, Pasqualoni has clearly failed. I'm not ready do say that. I think it is plausible that Edsall truly left the cupboard pretty bare and we are paying the price for it. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't see how anybody could truly know.

I know that P has some issue, like clock management. I also know that Edsall has some issues, like running the ball 80% of the time, but at least he had a decent O-line and some great RB's. Do we have that now? I have no idea.

But you don't speak for me or "the rest of the world."

Why would I ever speak for you? You're wrong about everything.
 
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I agree with your sentiment. I truly believe that there are deficiencies in both the roster and in the manner in which the coaching staff has used the roster. To what degree each side was responsible for the losses is always up for debate. But as you said, the truth is always "much more nuanced" than just black and white...

LOL. This can happen only on the BY. We've come full circle. Only difference is that I don't use smarmy language like Loop does to portray myself as being smarter than everyone else.
 

UConnDan97

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LOL. This can happen only on the BY. We've come full circle. Only difference is that I don't use smarmy language like Loop does to portray myself as being smarter than everyone else.

LOL, what? If you are LOL'ing that I have said that I agree with both of your posts, then I truly hope that you understood that I was agreeing with your sentiment that there were deficiencies in both talent and coaching (as I stated). I wasn't agreeing with going after Dez, et al. I should have made myself more clear when I responded to your post, if I wasn't clear enough...
 
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