Kofi Cockburn cuts to 12

[RipCity]

How many of you think Calipari is actually cheating, like paying money to these kids somehow. I see plenty of remarks here and there insinuating that. Who thinks it is really the truth? Just asking.

He has cheated every place he’s coached, gotten caught, then it’s on to the next school. So probably.

 

[Mokum]

I'm sure there are differing opinions on this, so feel free to add-on or correct, but my thoughts have always been this...

1. Calipari is a snake, but there's no denying that he's the best in the business at recruiting talent. He's absolutely mastered the sales pitch of convincing kids that his only goal is their future rather than his or the university's and, in the age of one-and-done, these guys totally eat that up.

2. UK runs their program like a professional team. Similar to Alabama football, these guys are treated like professional athletes in terms of training, facilities, travel, etc.

3. Even though Cal's coaching ability is definitely up for debate, UK is and always will be a blue blood. Their fans are insane and the entire state lives for UK basketball, so that's also a big draw for kids seeking the biggest stage/brightest lights.

With all that said, I am convinced that Penny and Memphis are going to be a giant pain for Calipari at least for the next few years as kids who played for Penny at the HS/AAU level star filter into college. Will that last? That all depends on how Penny's coaching can adjust to the college game and if his pipeline will dry up the further removed he gets from the AAU world. It is certainly to our benefit if Memphis starts getting guys like Wiseman as that blows the whole "Why go play in the AAC against inferior talent" argument completely out of the water.

And if we get Precious and some of these other guys Hurley is after, we will be right back in the game. We only stunk for two years. Let's not forget how many times we beat Kentucky despite all the 5 stars they had. Conference is certainly a factor, but not something that can't be overcome. You only need a few guys for basketball. Gonzaga does well every year, Nevada is good this coming season. I'm not worried. I think Hurley will get us right back up there. I guess we kind of got off the topic of this thread, but it's interesting to hear what you guys have said about Kentucky.

 

[Scrutineer]

I am a casual fan. Can someone educate me please as to why Kentucky gets the top recruits, or at least a lot of them, year after year. What is the attraction? Is it Calapari? A lot of Kentuckys championships were back in the dark ages of two hand set shots and under hand foul shots. They have not done better than other schools in recent decades when it comes to NC's. I do know that if a kid is NBA material, he can play at Vermont, doesn't matter, the NBA will be on him. What is it about Kentucky?

I saw him up close when he was at UMass, even played a round of golf with him (same foursome) in a charity tournament in 1991, and he was totally focused on figuring out what he needed to do to build his team (and his reputation). He asked a lot of questions about the UConn "points system" for donors, for example.

He was also good at remembering people. I didn't see him very often but recall one time when I went to a high school event at CCSU to see Rashamel Jones play and bumped into him at the entrance to the playing floor. He remembered my name (difficult to pronounce) and acted like we were old friends. Always a salesman.

He used great strategy to build his team. To go from what UMass was when he got there to his final years when they had their "final four runner-up" (vacated), he started by getting undersized, highly motivated, players like Harper Williams and William Herndon. Those guys felt they were overlooked by the "bigger" schools and played their hearts out for him. He also reportedly had what some called an unholy alliance with an AAU guy from CT (won't name names) who supposedly facilitated the matriculation of a number of good players. So he slowly built a reputation and it didn't hurt to have Dookie Vitale constantly mentioning his name.

The Boston Globe did a couple stories about the AAU guy's tie-in and the horrible GPA of the players. Even though the NCAA required a GPA around 2.0, UMass had a number of players way below that who were allowed to play.

Of course, the big break was getting Camby to sign with them and the story we heard most often was that all his friends and relatives wanted him to go to UConn but Bill Bayno got tight with his AAU coach and his mother and spent the night talking to his mother and got her to sign off on his letter of intent at 7 AM, before UConn showed up. I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible.

He failed in the NBA (for a lot of money) and probably used his new "NBA credentials" to help him recruit at Memphis (along with another "street agent" Worldwide Wes). When Kentucky hired him he was reportedly told they didn't want Wes anywhere near the program.

If you watch that 8 minute video you get a good look at how polished he's made his presentation. He weaves stuff into his conversation that to the naive recruit will sound like it's just another fact but it's all designed to sell the product. Take, for example, the somewhat off-hand comment about how some schools list their Sweet Sixteens or Final Fours while at Kentucky we just show Championships (good observation you made about how five of them are from long long ago).

In summary, he knows what kids are buying and he sells it. His NBA credentials morphed into how many guys he gets to the league and that, added to the excitement of playing for over 20,000 screaming fans and living the high life in a special dorm, makes a big impression on 17 year olds.

Someone pointed out in another thread the other night that kids probably feel they're taking a chance coming to UConn whereas going to a Power Five league guarantees exposure and hype that will help them get that big contract they all want. He sells the pathway to the NBA.

What we don't have is an objective analysis of how successful all the five stars he gets actually turn out to be. I've previously mentioned Doron Lamb and Jeremy Lamb. He got Doron, who was more highly rated out of high school, and we got Jeremy. Jeremy turned out to be much more successful and is still in the NBA while Doron is somewhere overseas. Coaching? Or was Doron overrated? Who knows, but you can bet Doron will be listed as one of the players drafted regardless of how he did in the NBA and no recruit will ever check.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree with this for the most part. Correct me if I'm wrong though but it seems like the last couple years more of the can't miss blue chip recruits have chosen Duke over Kentucky. Kentucky obviously has still gotten a ton of 5 stars but guys like bagley, tatum, ingram, reddish, and Barrett all chose Duke, whereas Kentucky is getting 5 stars who still need further developing to get to the league.

A lot of that was due to Caple...and his bag man.

 

[intlzncster]

How many of you think Calipari is actually cheating, like paying money to these kids somehow. I see plenty of remarks here and there insinuating that. Who thinks it is really the truth? Just asking.

He's the only guy who's gotten TWO final four seasons vacated for ineligible players (Camby was paid bookoo bucks at UMASS). He's played fast and loose at UK (one eg Bledsoe's academic eligibility). He has a very tight, long time association with World Wide Wes, one of the biggest power brokers in all of basketball, pro and college (the ultimate bag man or more likely 'facilitator').

The kids at UK don't even stay on campus the second semester. They do 'independent study' at professional training facilities around the US. Usually has 1.000 APR of course. It's a joke.

This sums up Cal these days: “We’re a players-first program,” Calipari said. “And we might have just had the biggest day in Kentucky basketball history with a No. 1 pick and five first-round picks.” [about the 2010 NBA draft]

 

[intlzncster]

Of course, the big break was getting Camby to sign with them and the story we heard most often was that all his friends and relatives wanted him to go to UConn but Bill Bayno got tight with his AAU coach and his mother and spent the night talking to his mother and got her to sign off on his letter of intent at 7 AM, before UConn showed up. I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible.

He got offered bags of cash to go to UMASS. I thought that was generally accepted fact at this point in time.

 

[uconnbill]

Many big schools have bag men who end up giving "perks" like cars, jobs for guardians and others just plain old cash to student-athletes. The SEC has been doing this for years and my guess along with other conferences like the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, and Pac Ten.

 

[Mokum]

He's the only guy who's gotten TWO final four seasons vacated for ineligible players (Camby was paid bookoo bucks at UMASS). He's played fast and loose at UK (one eg Bledsoe's academic eligibility). He has a very tight, long time association with World Wide Wes, one of the biggest power brokers in all of basketball, pro and college (the ultimate bag man or more likely 'facilitator').

The kids at UK don't even stay on campus the second semester. They do 'independent study' at professional training facilities around the US. Usually has 1.000 APR of course. It's a joke.

This sums up Cal these days: “We’re a players-first program,” Calipari said. “And we might have just had the biggest day in Kentucky basketball history with a No. 1 pick and five first-round picks.” [about the 2010 NBA draft]

That says it all. I figured it was like that. What a sham. And of course, no ncaa investigation. What a pathetic joke the ncaa is.

 

[Mokum]

I saw him up close when he was at UMass, even played a round of golf with him (same foursome) in a charity tournament in 1991, and he was totally focused on figuring out what he needed to do to build his team (and his reputation). He asked a lot of questions about the UConn "points system" for donors, for example.

He was also good at remembering people. I didn't see him very often but recall one time when I went to a high school event at CCSU to see Rashamel Jones play and bumped into him at the entrance to the playing floor. He remembered my name (difficult to pronounce) and acted like we were old friends. Always a salesman.

He used great strategy to build his team. To go from what UMass was when he got there to his final years when they had their "final four runner-up" (vacated), he started by getting undersized, highly motivated, players like Harper Williams and William Herndon. Those guys felt they were overlooked by the "bigger" schools and played their hearts out for him. He also reportedly had what some called an unholy alliance with an AAU guy from CT (won't name names) who supposedly facilitated the matriculation of a number of good players. So he slowly built a reputation and it didn't hurt to have Dookie Vitale constantly mentioning his name.

The Boston Globe did a couple stories about the AAU guy's tie-in and the horrible GPA of the players. Even though the NCAA required a GPA around 2.0, UMass had a number of players way below that who were allowed to play.

Of course, the big break was getting Camby to sign with them and the story we heard most often was that all his friends and relatives wanted him to go to UConn but Bill Bayno got tight with his AAU coach and his mother and spent the night talking to his mother and got her to sign off on his letter of intent at 7 AM, before UConn showed up. I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible.

He failed in the NBA (for a lot of money) and probably used his new "NBA credentials" to help him recruit at Memphis (along with another "street agent" Worldwide Wes). When Kentucky hired him he was reportedly told they didn't want Wes anywhere near the program.

If you watch that 8 minute video you get a good look at how polished he's made his presentation. He weaves stuff into his conversation that to the naive recruit will sound like it's just another fact but it's all designed to sell the product. Take, for example, the somewhat off-hand comment about how some schools list their Sweet Sixteens or Final Fours while at Kentucky we just show Championships (good observation you made about how five of them are from long long ago).

In summary, he knows what kids are buying and he sells it. His NBA credentials morphed into how many guys he gets to the league and that, added to the excitement of playing for over 20,000 screaming fans and living the high life in a special dorm, makes a big impression on 17 year olds.

Someone pointed out in another thread the other night that kids probably feel they're taking a chance coming to UConn whereas going to a Power Five league guarantees exposure and hype that will help them get that big contract they all want. He sells the pathway to the NBA.

What we don't have is an objective analysis of how successful all the five stars he gets actually turn out to be. I've previously mentioned Doron Lamb and Jeremy Lamb. He got Doron, who was more highly rated out of high school, and we got Jeremy. Jeremy turned out to be much more successful and is still in the NBA while Doron is somewhere overseas. Coaching? Or was Doron overrated? Who knows, but you can bet Doron will be listed as one of the players drafted regardless of how he did in the NBA and no recruit will ever check.

Reminds me of an old time snake oil salesman. I worked for old carneys ( carnival guys) in the 70's. He would fit right in. Thanks for the informative reply.

 

[temery]

He's very difficult to dislike after meeting him. He's a very nice, fun guy to meet at a bbq.

It's not that he's putting on a show, he's a very charming dirtbag.

My Camby story: UMass beat Arkansas (I think) in the Tip Off Classic. A friend of the team worked at an area tennis club, and let them party all night.

A friend of mine was a cop in the town, and was called because of the noise. He said it was like a scene in a bad boy movie - everyone was wasted, sex on a pool table, etc.

Lucky for them the cop was a big umass fan. He called the school and said someone needed to come get them before shift change, or they'll be arrested.

Nothing I didn't see when I was in college, but the drinking age was lower, and the stakes higher for a top 25 bb team.

That might have been the year they didn't make the final four.

I saw him up close when he was at UMass, even played a round of golf with him (same foursome) in a charity tournament in 1991, and he was totally focused on figuring out what he needed to do to build his team (and his reputation). He asked a lot of questions about the UConn "points system" for donors, for example.

He was also good at remembering people. I didn't see him very often but recall one time when I went to a high school event at CCSU to see Rashamel Jones play and bumped into him at the entrance to the playing floor. He remembered my name (difficult to pronounce) and acted like we were old friends. Always a salesman.

He used great strategy to build his team. To go from what UMass was when he got there to his final years when they had their "final four runner-up" (vacated), he started by getting undersized, highly motivated, players like Harper Williams and William Herndon. Those guys felt they were overlooked by the "bigger" schools and played their hearts out for him. He also reportedly had what some called an unholy alliance with an AAU guy from CT (won't name names) who supposedly facilitated the matriculation of a number of good players. So he slowly built a reputation and it didn't hurt to have Dookie Vitale constantly mentioning his name.

The Boston Globe did a couple stories about the AAU guy's tie-in and the horrible GPA of the players. Even though the NCAA required a GPA around 2.0, UMass had a number of players way below that who were allowed to play.

Of course, the big break was getting Camby to sign with them and the story we heard most often was that all his friends and relatives wanted him to go to UConn but Bill Bayno got tight with his AAU coach and his mother and spent the night talking to his mother and got her to sign off on his letter of intent at 7 AM, before UConn showed up. I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible.

He failed in the NBA (for a lot of money) and probably used his new "NBA credentials" to help him recruit at Memphis (along with another "street agent" Worldwide Wes). When Kentucky hired him he was reportedly told they didn't want Wes anywhere near the program.

If you watch that 8 minute video you get a good look at how polished he's made his presentation. He weaves stuff into his conversation that to the naive recruit will sound like it's just another fact but it's all designed to sell the product. Take, for example, the somewhat off-hand comment about how some schools list their Sweet Sixteens or Final Fours while at Kentucky we just show Championships (good observation you made about how five of them are from long long ago).

In summary, he knows what kids are buying and he sells it. His NBA credentials morphed into how many guys he gets to the league and that, added to the excitement of playing for over 20,000 screaming fans and living the high life in a special dorm, makes a big impression on 17 year olds.

Someone pointed out in another thread the other night that kids probably feel they're taking a chance coming to UConn whereas going to a Power Five league guarantees exposure and hype that will help them get that big contract they all want. He sells the pathway to the NBA.

What we don't have is an objective analysis of how successful all the five stars he gets actually turn out to be. I've previously mentioned Doron Lamb and Jeremy Lamb. He got Doron, who was more highly rated out of high school, and we got Jeremy. Jeremy turned out to be much more successful and is still in the NBA while Doron is somewhere overseas. Coaching? Or was Doron overrated? Who knows, but you can bet Doron will be listed as one of the players drafted regardless of how he did in the NBA and no recruit will ever check.

 

[Mokum]

He's very difficult to dislike after meeting him. He's a very nice, fun guy to meet at a bbq.

It's not that he's putting on a show, he's a very charming dirtbag.

My Camby story: UMass beat Arkansas (I think) in the Tip Off Classic. A friend of the team worked at an area tennis club, and let them party all night.

A friend of mine was a cop in the town, and was called because of the noise. He said it was like a scene in a bad boy movie - everyone was wasted, sex on a pool table, etc.

Lucky for them the cop was a big umass fan. He called the school and said someone needed to come get them before shift change, or they'll be arrested.

Nothing I didn't see when I was in college, but the drinking age was lower, and the stakes higher for a top 25 bb team.

That might have been the year they didn't make the final four.

Charming is a major part of being a dirt bag.

 

[temery]

Charming is a major part of being a dirt bag.

We must know different dirtbags.

 

[UconnBoston]

He's very difficult to dislike after meeting him. He's a very nice, fun guy to meet at a bbq.

It's not that he's putting on a show, he's a very charming dirtbag.

My Camby story: UMass beat Arkansas (I think) in the Tip Off Classic. A friend of the team worked at an area tennis club, and let them party all night.

A friend of mine was a cop in the town, and was called because of the noise. He said it was like a scene in a bad boy movie - everyone was wasted, sex on a pool table, etc.

Lucky for them the cop was a big umass fan. He called the school and said someone needed to come get them before shift change, or they'll be arrested.

Nothing I didn't see when I was in college, but the drinking age was lower, and the stakes higher for a top 25 bb team.

That might have been the year they didn't make the final four.

Bad boy movie?

You must have the unedited version.

 

[Mokum]

We must know different dirtbags.

Dirtbags are charming does not mean charming people are dirtbags. Basic logic. You said he was charming, and you said he was a dirtbag, so I'm not clear what you are insinuating by your comment.

 

[temery]

Dirtbags are charming does not mean charming people are dirtbags. Basic logic. You said he was charming, and you said he was a dirtbag, so I'm not clear what you are insinuating by your comment.

Most dirtbags are not charming. In fact, neither are most people.

 

[Mokum]

Most dirtbags are not charming. In fact, neither are most people.

Ok I get it. I find charm is one way dirtbbags get over on people, but let's drop it, it's not relevant. We. both agree Calapari is a dirtbag, let's leave it at that.

 

[djct1999]

He's the only guy who's gotten TWO final four seasons vacated for ineligible players (Camby was paid bookoo bucks at UMASS). He's played fast and loose at UK (one eg Bledsoe's academic eligibility). He has a very tight, long time association with World Wide Wes, one of the biggest power brokers in all of basketball, pro and college (the ultimate bag man or more likely 'facilitator').

The kids at UK don't even stay on campus the second semester. They do 'independent study' at professional training facilities around the US. Usually has 1.000 APR of course. It's a joke.

This sums up Cal these days: “We’re a players-first program,” Calipari said. “And we might have just had the biggest day in Kentucky basketball history with a No. 1 pick and five first-round picks.” [about the 2010 NBA draft]

but, but, but......i have heard those "independent studies" really focus on life skills. like him or hate him, the squid is genius(not coaching) at what he does. just ask the army of past players sitting on their max deals that will go to bat for this dude. used cars salesman? you bet. cheater? you bet. he is simply the best at both. my friend's dad plays a few rounds of golf each summer with the squid(through a mutual friend). before he hated the guy. now, he absolutely loves him. somehow, on that course he made a 65 year old retired pilot friend of a friend feel like he was hamidou diallo. its in his dna. last summer, my friends dad was telling the squid how excited he was about expecting his first grandson. without pause, 365 days later, the first thing the squid said to him this summer, "Larry, how is your grandson? Make sure he takes 100 free throws a day and he can come play for me."

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

"Larry, how is your grandson? Make sure he takes 100 free throws a day and he can come play for me."

Not even the pressure of making the free throws. Nice.

 

[temery]

Ok I get it. I find charm is one way dirtbbags get over on people, but let's drop it, it's not relevant. We. both agree Calapari is a dirtbag, let's leave it at that.

Oh, I get it. In my mind you are talking about con artists. Calipari is both. He's Eddie Haskell without a conscience.

 

[husky99]

I did an internship at both Hartford high school and the talk on camby/ Cal are historical.

Also had a friend from high school who had work study with the athletic department. Said Cal was a monster to the non ship students

 

[upstater]

Someone pointed out in another thread the other night that kids probably feel they're taking a chance coming to UConn whereas going to a Power Five league guarantees exposure and hype that will help them get that big contract they all want. He sells the pathway to the NBA.

It guarantees them better conference games. Not necessarily exposure. Depends on the school. For about 10 P5 schools, yes they have more exposure than UConn. But for most of the rest, they don't get on ESPN, ESPN2, & CBS (not CBSN) 13-16 times a year. Some schools, like Maryland or NC State, are on 5 times. If you're talking Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State, etc., then yes, there's more exposure.

 

[Thirty Three]

I don't have a cool Cal story like some posters here, but I did once bust his balls at a pizza restaurant in New Jersey. I was with @HooperScooper, @DogMania, and I think @Fishy at ABCD camp years ago.

 

[HooperScooper]

I don't have a cool Cal story like some posters here, but I did once bust his balls at a pizza restaurant in New Jersey. I was with @HooperScooper, @DogMania, and I think @Fishy at ABCD camp years ago.

I don't think Fishy was with us. He wouldn't lower his standards to hang out with us scum.

 

[Mokum]

Oh, I get it. In my mind you are talking about con artists. Calipari is both. He's Eddie Haskell without a conscience.

Funny you should bring up Eddie Haskell. I thought of him as well.