Kia a finalist for Lieberman
- Thread starter OldAlum
- Start date
Carnac
That venerable sage from the west
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 15,927
- Reaction Score
- 78,858
I wonder how much weight is given to a player (Kia) for being a "lock-down" defender, with the "proven" ability of holding the opponent's best guard way under her normal scoring average? (recently holding Asia Durr (Louisville) to 2 points in the first half) 
I would think that should count for something. Yes, I'm prejudiced and bias towards UConn and its players, but IMHO, Kia is by far the best 1 on 1 defender of this group. 
There's not a coach in the country at any level that does not covet a lock-down defender at any position. If you have a player that can "neutralize" the opponent's best scorer, the odds of winning significantly improve for you.
I would think that should count for something. Yes, I'm prejudiced and bias towards UConn and its players, but IMHO, Kia is by far the best 1 on 1 defender of this group. There's not a coach in the country at any level that does not covet a lock-down defender at any position. If you have a player that can "neutralize" the opponent's best scorer, the odds of winning significantly improve for you.
Last edited by a moderator:
LOL... I gotta say that if everyone wants to be 100% honest with themselves Sabrina should be the winner. She has the best overall game and contibutions. She is also a leader and makes all her teammates better too. Kia is a warrior and a true Husky, but lets not discount what other great players are out there and what they contribute. That said, I will not be disappointed if Kia wins : - )
huskeynut
Leader of the Band
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 7,604
- Reaction Score
- 33,414
Not going to knock Sabrina, she has some impressive stats on offense. But she doesn't play good defense at all.
Kia is the best all around guard on the list.
.-.
HuskyFan1125
"Dont be the same, be better"
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 6,125
- Reaction Score
- 11,532
The Nancy Lieberman Award, named for Basketball Hall of Fame legend Nancy Lieberman, was given annually by the Rotary Club of Detroit in the Award's first 14 years to the nation's top collegiate point guard in women's Division I basketball. (from Wikipedia).
Who on that list is a PG??
I do realize that many play position less basketball but....
Kia Nurse (Crystal Dangerfield is UCONNs PG)
Lexie Brown--is Duke's PG
Katelynn Flaherty--is the Michigan PG (converted from 2guard to help WNBA stock)
Kelsey Mitchell--Isn't really a PG. She just has the ball all the time and takes the most shots. Asia Doss is more of a PG.
Sabrina Ionescu--(Maite Cazorla is the Oregon PG)
So if i am voting I give it to Lexie Brown!
I am hoping Kia is a 1st Team AA!!!!
Who on that list is a PG??
I do realize that many play position less basketball but....
Kia Nurse (Crystal Dangerfield is UCONNs PG)
Lexie Brown--is Duke's PG
Katelynn Flaherty--is the Michigan PG (converted from 2guard to help WNBA stock)
Kelsey Mitchell--Isn't really a PG. She just has the ball all the time and takes the most shots. Asia Doss is more of a PG.
Sabrina Ionescu--(Maite Cazorla is the Oregon PG)
So if i am voting I give it to Lexie Brown!
I am hoping Kia is a 1st Team AA!!!!
100% honesty!
UConn beat Oregon in the elite 8 last year by 40. (in your life, have you ever lost a game by 40? 15-20 is considered a thumping!)The two of them had very comparable #'s in that game. Sabrina 15, 3 assists, Kia, 11 and 7 assists. Add in the defense and the fact that Oregon is a JV team compared to UConn. Plus she's a sophomore and she's got 2 more years to get it.
Great players on great teams should win these awards.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,333
- Reaction Score
- 68,287
I was wondering if the Liberman award was for a PG or just overall guard. Thanks for clearing that up @HuskyFan1125 . Gotta wonder why Jordin Canada wasnt named a finalist.
What does last year's Elite 8 matchup have to do with a 2018 award?
What does last year's Elite 8 matchup have to do with a 2018 award?
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2013
- Messages
- 11,827
- Reaction Score
- 17,832
Give it to Kia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,333
- Reaction Score
- 68,287
Have you seen the rest of them play? Multiple games..or just a few highlights here and there? Just curious.
.-.
CocoHusky
1,000,001 BY points
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Messages
- 17,203
- Reaction Score
- 73,827
Honestly speaking I don't think a game "last" year should have anything to do with the award for this year. Being a Sophmore should not hurt Sabrina any more than being a Senior should help Kia.
CocoHusky
1,000,001 BY points
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Messages
- 17,203
- Reaction Score
- 73,827
Well..... you can't be ranking defense and not put Kelsey Mitchell at the bottom of the list. Kelsey is offensively indifferent towards defense. I'm also not so sure that Kia is any more of a defender than Lexie.
CocoHusky
1,000,001 BY points
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Messages
- 17,203
- Reaction Score
- 73,827
I would have no issue with Lexie winning this award just NOT on the basis that she is the best "PG". The players did not nominate themselves for these awards the selection committee did. There is another award new this year called Ann Myers SG award. None of the players nominated for the Ann Meyers SG award were nominated for this award or vice versa. So I think it fair to evaluate the players selected for thier total game including defense.
Carnac
That venerable sage from the west
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 15,927
- Reaction Score
- 78,858
I agree that Ionescu is a phenominal player, and should be given serious consideration for this award. I would ask this question......assuming that Nurse is the best defender of this group, I would then ask "What can Ionescu or any of the others do that Nurse can't do? I realize the fact that Kia has been a starting guard on two national championship teams should have nothing to do with THIS year's award. If you're going to mention leadership, I would think that should prove her leadership abilities, not to mention that in 4 years, she's only lost 2 games (Stanford, Miss St), none of which where on her home floor. She has a motor that does not stop or slow down. She leads by example, and she's been a team leader all season............not to mention that Geno loves her!!
She has more than just "offensive" numbers. Rebounding, assists, triple doubles... lets not make her out to be one dimensional.
Nationally:
Top 50 points 19.2
Top 5 assists 7.8
Triple Double #1
Top 20 3pt% #17
Top 40 in assist / turnover ratio #31
and she is on the Naismith Semifinalists Top 10. All this as a sophomore.
All this to say, and like I said earlier, I would not be upset if Kia wins obviously. I hope she does! She is just not better than Sabrina in my opinion. I respect if you think Kia's defense beats all the value that Sabrina's game brings.
Last year has nothing to do with it. I do not buy into this sophomore has more time so it should go to senior. Best player should get it. So Lou and Pheesa should not have been AA last year because they were sophomores? They should have given their spots to seniors? Really?
If Sabrina was on UConn and Kia was on Oregon I guess it would have not been a blowout. Look at one of my other replies to see how Sabrina brings multiple value to her team. I respect if you want Kia to get it, I just think Sabrina is the more impactful and better player. Again we are talking about 2 players in top 5.
.-.
Hi Scoop - I like your posts on the board. I respect Kia was on 2 national champions but that had much more to do with other players than her even though she was a contributor. There are many aspects to basketball and even defense for that matter. Kia does not lead her team in any defensive category. Actually just with the 5 starters she is 4th in steals and 4th in defensive rebounds. Great off ball defender but it was team effort on Asia Durr (who scored her average, on poor shotting, but Kia had 4 points on 2 breakaway layups.) I am sorry to say that Kia has disappeared offensively in many big games. I can rattle off many big games where she went single digits 3-4 points including the MSST game. She is a great team player and belongs on this list because she does many things well. I just think Sabrina does more better.I agree that Ionescu is a phenominal player, and should be given serious consideration for this award. I would ask this question.assuming that Nurse is the best defender of this group, I would then ask "What can Ionescu or any of the others do that Nurse can't do? I realize the fact that Kia has been a starting guard on two national championship teams should have nothing to do with THIS year's award. If you're going to mention leadership, I would think that should prove her leadership abilities, not to mention that in 4 years, she's only lost 2 games (Stanford, Miss St), none of which where on her home floor. She has a motor that does not stop or slow down. She leads by example, and she's been a team leader all season..not to mention that Geno loves her!!
nwhoopfan
hopeless West Coast homer
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2017
- Messages
- 34,643
- Reaction Score
- 69,700
Look at those assist numbers! Ionescu has the rest of the candidates about doubled up. That's gotta be worth something. Big edge in rebounding too. I think Flaherty should just be casually dismissed looking at her assist/to ratio. Barely over 1:1. Not good.
CocoHusky
1,000,001 BY points
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Messages
- 17,203
- Reaction Score
- 73,827
It's all what you value right? If you value assist then Sabrina is the woman. If you need a shot to be knocked down then Kia is your best bet. Need a rebounding guard back to Sabrina. Need a steal to get your team sparked look for Lexie. You need the other team's best perimeter player locked down, Kia Nurse meet Miss Durr. I personally value winning and defense more than the next guy. Each of the players on this list have lost more games this year than Kia has lost in her 4 years of being a starter at UCONN. Kia Nurse went all in against Asia Durr and sold out on defense and by so doing stifiled the entire #3 team in the country. Don't see another player on this list that could do that. Kia probably won't win this award but that's not her fault, it is actually my fault for not converting enough people to my value system.
wallman
UCLA Bruin
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,184
- Reaction Score
- 2,376
I agree Coco she would be right at the bottom of the list with her
I for one am more of a fan of Carzola and Hebard than Ionescu, Carzola usually takes the tough defensive assignment, when they come out of their zone that is.
nwhoopfan
hopeless West Coast homer
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2017
- Messages
- 34,643
- Reaction Score
- 69,700
Winning is certainly important. That has a lot to do w/ the other 4 players on the floor though. Pretty sure the 4 playing next to Nurse are better than the 4 playing next to any of the other finalists.
.-.
wallman
UCLA Bruin
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,184
- Reaction Score
- 2,376
Well that works both ways as she probably wouldn't play at Uconn as she doesn't play defense
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2014
- Messages
- 9,877
- Reaction Score
- 29,420
This is not a comment on who I think should win, but Ionescu does have the motor and the leadership. Several posts here question her defense. I went to see her play Friday night and she played hard defense and effective defense the whole game. Actually I thought she led her team by her defensive example. She is really, really good.I agree that Ionescu is a phenominal player, and should be given serious consideration for this award. I would ask this question.assuming that Nurse is the best defender of this group, I would then ask "What can Ionescu or any of the others do that Nurse can't do? I realize the fact that Kia has been a starting guard on two national championship teams should have nothing to do with THIS year's award. If you're going to mention leadership, I would think that should prove her leadership abilities, not to mention that in 4 years, she's only lost 2 games (Stanford, Miss St), none of which where on her home floor. She has a motor that does not stop or slow down. She leads by example, and she's been a team leader all season..not to mention that Geno loves her!!
The one negative might be she just isn't that fast. And... Oregon has had some good wins against ranked teams this year, but they lost big to the only truly elite teams they played, and Sabrina didn't show up - Louisville (Ionescu 8/2/3) and Mississippi State (Ionescu 15/1/5). IMO it isn't her year. But, also IMO, she DOES play defense.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2017
- Messages
- 661
- Reaction Score
- 4,277
Until I watch most if not all of the games these candidates played this year, I cannot have any reasoned opinion. Having said that, I question whether the stats. can tell us too much. Some players' stats suffer from playing on teams that have tougher schedules. Or the stats benefit from more playing time necessitated by more close games. Or they reflect lesser or greater surrounding talent (doesn't matter how good a passer you are if your teammate can't hit their shot).
In any event, putting aside whether the candidates even qualify as point guards, I would imagine that if Kia had Ionescu's stats., and Ionescu had Kia's, there'd be bloody hell to pay on this Board if Kia did not get the nod.
In any event, putting aside whether the candidates even qualify as point guards, I would imagine that if Kia had Ionescu's stats., and Ionescu had Kia's, there'd be bloody hell to pay on this Board if Kia did not get the nod.