Kelsey Plum says open WNBA books

[Orangutan]

It is hard to find reliable attendance figures. Undoubtedly basketball is growing with both government and industrialist support and the rule you mention limited the number of foreign players is intended to foster that. Some of my info is anecdotal, seeing European games in big arenas with the audience confined to the first 3 or 4 rows of seats. Men's professional league games in Europe average around 8000 a game, an old Eastern Block League (VTB League) under 3000, and I saw a figure last year for women around 1800 and it is a common practice to give tickets away to swell the butts in the seats.

This Wikipaedia article concerning the Women's Euroleague illustrates the situation. It includes reporting on the championship playoff rounds and shows a low game of 250 and a high of 2000 and no attendance figure for UMMC Ekaterinburg, a perennial powerhouse. No attendance figures are given for any of the Final Four games. 2017–18 EuroLeague Women - Wikipedia

I can't source this right now, but I believe tickets are either free or close to it for UMMC. In part, it serves as something for UMMC's employees (miners, who I assume are hideously underpaid) to do during the brutal Russian winter.

 

[vtcwbuff]

"You might want to take a look at the LPGA-losing the number of tournaments, small purses and so on. The LPGA has to fight to even get a tournament on tv."

I can't agree on the first part of your comment. The LPGA is playing more tournaments (35) than ever.
The problem is that nearly half are played in foreign countries. The other problem is that there are more foreign players on the tour than there are Americans. Most of the top- players are foreign. There is only one American golfer in the top 10 on the money list - Korda at no. 10. I think that is the main reason that the TV coverage in the US has either dried up or is relegated to 2 AM on the Golf Channel.

 

[j66kicker]

So the suggestion that the world revolves around the WNBA doesn't seem to hold up. And if these leagues are thriving, or at the very least, continue to exist in places like South Korea, Turkey, Russia and China, why in the world can't an American pro league, equipped with the best talent in the world, maintain a viable league in which its athletes are paid good salaries?

Something definitely doesn't add up. And I suspect that the mystery begins and ends with the NBA's lack of interest in its women's league.

Oh, and maybe the league's potential fans' lack of interest might have something to do with it as well... ?? Just sayin'

But apparently that doesn't matter in some countries where the clubs are owned by rich guys as hobbies, or by companies who subsidize them. So does anyone know of any professional WBB anywhere in the world that pays for itself?

 

[Orangutan]

It is hard to find reliable attendance figures. Undoubtedly basketball is growing with both government and industrialist support and the rule you mention limited the number of foreign players is intended to foster that. Some of my info is anecdotal, seeing European games in big arenas with the audience confined to the first 3 or 4 rows of seats. Men's professional league games in Europe average around 8000 a game, an old Eastern Block League (VTB League) under 3000, and I saw a figure last year for women around 1800 and it is a common practice to give tickets away to swell the butts in the seats.

This Wikipaedia article concerning the Women's Euroleague illustrates the situation. It includes reporting on the championship playoff rounds and shows a low game of 250 and a high of 2000 and no attendance figure for UMMC Ekaterinburg, a perennial powerhouse. No attendance figures are given for any of the Final Four games. 2017–18 EuroLeague Women - Wikipedia

Found it. From the New York Times profile on Taurasi,

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Found it. From the New York Times profile on Taurasi,

View attachment 33149

I was about to put you on this. It's sick what we expend memory cells on!

 

[shizam]

Here’s article written in Forbes today. Says WNBA SHOULD pay its players more and why

The WNBA -- Or The NBA -- Should Pay Its Players More

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Bizarre but appears to be true. Take a look at this article:
Why WNBA stars savor overseas experience

"Why the high salaries? It's not because the teams always make a lot of money, but often because the wealthy owners simply want a talented roster. As Taurasi said about Russian oligarch team owners back in 2007: "They're hotheads who want the best women's basketball team, and that's their hobby, so they don't care how much they pay.""

It could be. Or else it could be that they're making money. I note that the Euroleague now has 24 women's teams. And that's just Europe. Can it be that all of those women's teams from China to Lithuania and all points in-between are operating in the red? Are they all just hobbies? If so, why?

Makes more sense to suspect that they're lucrative enterprises, and that the NBA is really missing the boat. I can see one or two franchises being hobbies, but leagues around the world? And they all pay enough to attract the top half of American pro players? And they pay them substantially more than they're getting in the WNBA?

Something leads me to suspect that they're thriving, and that the problem is right here in our league.

 

[CTrefugee]

Why not just fold the WNBA and let the player go overseas only ? Only we faithful few would even notice.

 

[CTrefugee]

Here’s article written in Forbes today. Says WNBA SHOULD pay its players more and why

The WNBA -- Or The NBA -- Should Pay Its Players More

The dumbest article I have read recently. I hope this guy isn't handling his family's economics.

 

[j66kicker]

The dumbest article I have read recently. I hope this guy isn't handling his family's economics.

Interesting article, but I agree the author must have gone to the A'ja Wilson School of Economics. One major difference in the NBA and WNBA is NBA franchises are actually worth something to sell. His example of acquiring a franchise for $4.5 million and having it now valued at $1.1+ billion is reality. The benefit of owning a major sports franchise is its potential appreciation in value. Meanwhile the owner can do tax loss carry forwards and apply losses from one year to offset profits in a year where they do make money. And, if they're in the right market, and savvy enough to own the media, stadium, parking, concessions, etc, so that the team is also a cash generating machine (think Yankees or Cowboys), then so much the better.

I really would like to see the WNBA players make more money. But how is the NBA forking over more salary subsidy going to increase the popularity of the league, which is still ultimately going to be required for it to flourish, or even survive?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Here’s article written in Forbes today. Says WNBA SHOULD pay its players more and why

The WNBA -- Or The NBA -- Should Pay Its Players More

Brilliant article! Points out that the WNBA has not opened its books to the players. Indeed, it points out that even from what we know of the revenues, which are undoubtedly underreported, the players are not receiving 20% of revenues. Indeed, according to the reported figures, the players deserve some $3 million more to over $14 million.

Points out that WNBA is similar today to the NBA, which, before revenue-sharing, has several teams in the red in terms of operating profit. Even today in the NBA not all teams are making money pre-revenue sharing.

So the question remains out there: Why won't the WNBA open its books to the players?

Thanks for the link. Brilliant!!!

 

[stamfordhusky]

It could be. Or else it could be that they're making money. I note that the Euroleague now has 24 women's teams. And that's just Europe. Can it be that all of those women's teams from China to Lithuania and all points in-between are operating in the red? Are they all just hobbies? If so, why?

Yes, that is the culture. Virtually all of them lose money.

Note that the same is true of many men's franchises in foreign countries, i.e. owned by wealthy industrialists who run it at a loss. When profits dry up for the sponsoring company, the players frequently find their checks bounce. I know a couple players who played in mid-level European pro leagues and never did get all of their contractual salary. Very common for the final couple of checks to either not be paid or to bounce if you arent' planning to return.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Yes, that is the culture. Virtually all of them lose money.

Note that the same is true of many men's franchises in foreign countries, i.e. owned by wealthy industrialists who run it at a loss. When profits dry up for the sponsoring company, the players frequently find their checks bounce. I know a couple players who played in mid-level European pro leagues and never did get all of their contractual salary. Very common for the final couple of checks to either not be paid or to bounce if you arent' planning to return.

Are you certain that "virtually all of them lose money"? Are you certain about that? Can you include a link to leagues' financials? All we saw was one article with an anecdote about a rich owner. It could be that many other teams are viable. As with the NBA, it could be that some lose money and others are profitable. It could also be that the league as a whole, including revenue sharing, is doing very well.

As with the WNBA, we don't have the numbers. And that is the basis for Kelsey Plum's question. She wants the league to open its books and show the players, who are the ones earning those tens of millions for the league, exactly how much they're generating. I suspect that the league won't do that because they know that they're making good money overall, and the last thing they want to do is pay the players more.

 

[shizam]

The dumbest article I have read recently. I hope this guy isn't handling his family's economics.

He basically says the NBA needs to pony up and subsidize to get revenue sharing to 50% whether W teams are in the red or not.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

He basically says the NBA needs to pony up and subsidize to get revenue sharing to 50% whether W teams are in the red or not.

Actually, that's not at all what he said.