Kelsey Plum says open WNBA books

[shizam]

More money would be good, but WNBA-NBA wage gap is about economics, not gender

 

[reno tony]

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

"If the WNBA is always losing money, and if the WNBA is in the red, why do we keep it around?” Plum asked on 710 ESPN Seattle’s Brock and Salk.

One more question for Kelsey: Do you really want to ask something like that?"

 

[Kaizen]

I really have problem to understand what she was talking about.

But, be careful what you are talking about ...

 

[Monte]

If the players really want to settle this, they should do what DT says: Go on strike.
I know it may be bitter, and could be the demise of some teams, but it will show the players their true worth, and stop the haggling once and for all.

 

[Shades]

If the players really want to settle this, they should do what DT says: Go on strike.
I know it may be bitter, and could be the demise of some teams, but it will show the players their true worth, and stop the haggling once and for all.

There’s only 12 teams in the league. The demise of any team would likely be the end of the league, imo.

 

[McFly]

There’s only 12 teams in the league. The demise of any team, would likely be the end of the league, imo.

I gave Shades post a "Like"; I don't like the premise, but agree with the statement.

 

[blackbird]

I think Kelsey’s point is that she thinks it really isn’t a money drain...so let’s see the numbers. I happen to agree with her. At least half the teams make a profit...same as the NBA..the league has a deal with ESPN - that should have been better given ratings..and it’s the leagues fault for not negotiating it better - and they really limit costs.

So open the books..if the league really can’t afford more to the players, then so be it..but it’s a negotiation point.

 

[Rb335]

Be careful what you wish for! Just look at the age of this league and how many teams have moved, or folded. This offseason we had two franchises nearly fold. Thankfully Las Vegas and NY found homes. The league is incredibly fragile.

I find it interesting that Lisa Borders constantly talks about the growth of the league, but until franchises are solid, selling tickets, and earning revenue, the players need to be happy they have the platform they have. Her statements seem to back the proof to back them up.

When the WNBA finds a way to make more money, the players should be the first compensated. But until they find the answer to that riddle (a tough riddle), the players need to continue to showcase their talent to hopefully draw attention.

 

[huskeynut]

There’s only 12 teams in the league. The demise of any team would likely be the end of the league, imo.

Right now that team could be the Liberty.

 

[shizam]

Be careful what you wish for! Just look at the age of this league and how many teams have moved, or folded. This offseason we had two franchises nearly fold. Thankfully Las Vegas and NY found homes. The league is incredibly fragile.

I find it interesting that Lisa Borders constantly talks about the growth of the league, but until franchises are solid, selling tickets, and earning revenue, the players need to be happy they have the platform they have. Her statements seem to back the proof to back them up.

When the WNBA finds a way to make more money, the players should be the first compensated. But until they find the answer to that riddle (a tough riddle), the players need to continue to showcase their talent to hopefully draw attention.

I saw first hand how fragile this league is when the Monarch's closed shop and they were one of the better fan supported teams in the league.

 

[JellyBean]

Be careful what you wish for! Just look at the age of this league and how many teams have moved, or folded. This offseason we had two franchises nearly fold. Thankfully Las Vegas and NY found homes. The league is incredibly fragile.

I find it interesting that Lisa Borders constantly talks about the growth of the league, but until franchises are solid, selling tickets, and earning revenue, the players need to be happy they have the platform they have. Her statements seem to back the proof to back them up.

When the WNBA finds a way to make more money, the players should be the first compensated. But until they find the answer to that riddle (a tough riddle), the players need to continue to showcase their talent to hopefully draw attention.

Exactly. Great points. Those of us that have been fans of the WNBA since day one, are always on edge when players start demanding more money. Many of us can remember the American Basketball League, the league just before the WNBA (1996-1998), and how that league offered players higher salaries but ran into problems and folded, mostly due to lack of sponsors, high salaries, and lack of TV deals. We do not want that happening with the WNBA.

 

[stamfordhusky]

If the players really want to settle this, they should do what DT says: Go on strike.
I know it may be bitter, and could be the demise of some teams, but it will show the players their true worth, and stop the haggling once and for all.

It would likely be the demise of the entire league, which is a money-loser kept around more for good will than any economic reason.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

It's a very simple request. If the WNBA claims that they're paying the players 20% of their gross, let's see the numbers to ascertain that they are, in fact, being paid the 20%. Not asking for the league to fold. Just asking that the agreement to pay them 20% of the gross is actually being adhered to.

The other question is why the WNBA leadership aren't pushing much harder for more games to be televised for more money. Sometimes it's all about marketing. Does the public really want to see weekends devoted to D-League and summer league for the NBA?

When pro tennis players began pushing for better exposure and more of the gross for women players, they won, and the sport won as well. Women basketball players could push and win as well.

 

[vtcwbuff]

". . . . but it will show the players their true worth,"

They might not like what they see.

My thought is that if an employer isn't paying you what you think you deserve - leave. Simple as that.

 

[WLT1717]

I think it would be helpful for the WNBA Players Assn Exec Committee to explain to its membership why they negotiated the salary split in the current agreement. Presumably it was part of a long term commitment to invest in overall league infrastructure and stability, recognizing that the split could be revisited in the next agreement consistent with current economic conditions and growth conditions. Comparisons to the NBA are inapposite for several reasons. In contrast to the criticisms leveled by some high profile players, the silence from the player’s union has been deafening. Or perhaps I’m not following the right social media accounts.

 

[awhom111]

I think it would be helpful for the WNBA Players Assn Exec Committee to explain to its membership why they negotiated the salary split in the current agreement. Presumably it was part of a long term commitment to invest in overall league infrastructure and stability, recognizing that the split could be revisited in the next agreement consistent with current economic conditions and growth conditions. Comparisons to the NBA are inapposite for several reasons. In contrast to the criticisms leveled by some high profile players, the silence from the player’s union has been deafening. Or perhaps I’m not following the right social media accounts.

They did not negotiate a revenue split. They negotiated a fixed salary cap. Obviously that is a problem if revenues rise dramatically, but it also protects the downside if revenues decrease. There are actually concerns every so often that the NBA salary cap will drop slightly because of one time revenue spikes.

I'm not really sure if the players speaking out is a coordinated campaign or not. The players have been planning to opt out of the agreement after this season for a while and will likely do so. That means that this agreement will expire after the 2019 season. That gives them 18 months or so to negotiate before it really affects the 2020 season as I am sure neither side wants to have any kind of stoppage in an Olympic year.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the owners start making public noise. Unlike the NBA teams, which can basically control their profitability by making player transactions, some WNBA teams seem to be in better shape than others. If the Liberty get sold to a non-NBA owner before negotiations, that will change the mix of NBA vs. non-NBA owners even more. I've heard in the past that the split between them is important and that the non-NBA owners in particular are worried about the Lynx, Mercury, and Fever owners being more willing to absorb costs above what the lower net worth owners can handle.

 

[bballnut90]

It's a very simple request. If the WNBA claims that they're paying the players 20% of their gross, let's see the numbers to ascertain that they are, in fact, being paid the 20%. Not asking for the league to fold. Just asking that the agreement to pay them 20% of the gross is actually being adhered to.

The other question is why the WNBA leadership aren't pushing much harder for more games to be televised for more money. Sometimes it's all about marketing. Does the public really want to see weekends devoted to D-League and summer league for the NBA?

When pro tennis players began pushing for better exposure and more of the gross for women players, they won, and the sport won as well. Women basketball players could push and win as well.

Agreed. The games are so much more entertaining to watch now than they were 10-15 years ago. Better athletes in the league and the games are higher scoring and more offensive overall. You’ll always have the anti-WBB crowd, but if you can put games in front of more viewers you’ll get more fans out of it. Especially with the quality of play significantly higher.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

For me the very terrible irony in all this is that the only reason "the real money" is in Europe Chine Etc is that the WNBA exists. That side of the Atlantic needs the fire power of the WNBA greats to feed the egos or whatever of the oligarchs yadda yadda behind those teams. The overseas market is not market driven and the attendance is pathetic in many venues. It's just a very weird situation with no parallel in any other sport.

 

[willtalk]

It appears that most of the overseas teams are owned and funded by large corporations. Well it pays the players more. But problems might start if they make the players start wearing skates, move in synchronized formations .while supported by motorcycles.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

For me the very terrible irony in all this is that the only reason "the real money" is in Europe Chine Etc is that the WNBA exists. That side of the Atlantic needs the fire power of the WNBA greats to feed the egos or whatever of the oligarchs yadda yadda behind those teams. The overseas market is not market driven and the attendance is pathetic in many venues. It's just a very weird situation with no parallel in any other sport.

Is this true? I believe that most of the players in Turkey and Europe and China and the Korean women's league are actually local athletes, not Americans. Indeed, I believe that European leagues maintain caps on the number of non-european players. Yet the fans still come out, and the leagues appear to thrive. Indeed, some American athletes are willing to skip the WNBA season in order to rest up from the European season. D took off a year because she was paid by her Russian team's owner to sit out. Emma Meeseman is sitting out this season to prepare for the world championships as a member of the Belgian national team. Yep, the Belgian team!

So the suggestion that the world revolves around the WNBA doesn't seem to hold up. And if these leagues are thriving, or at the very least, continue to exist in places like South Korea, Turkey, Russia and China, why in the world can't an American pro league, equipped with the best talent in the world, maintain a viable league in which its athletes are paid good salaries?

Something definitely doesn't add up. And I suspect that the mystery begins and ends with the NBA's lack of interest in its women's league.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Yet the fans still come out, and the leagues appear to thrive.

It is hard to find reliable attendance figures. Undoubtedly basketball is growing with both government and industrialist support and the rule you mention limited the number of foreign players is intended to foster that. Some of my info is anecdotal, seeing European games in big arenas with the audience confined to the first 3 or 4 rows of seats. Men's professional league games in Europe average around 8000 a game, an old Eastern Block League (VTB League) under 3000, and I saw a figure last year for women around 1800 and it is a common practice to give tickets away to swell the butts in the seats.

This Wikipaedia article concerning the Women's Euroleague illustrates the situation. It includes reporting on the championship playoff rounds and shows a low game of 250 and a high of 2000 and no attendance figure for UMMC Ekaterinburg, a perennial powerhouse. No attendance figures are given for any of the Final Four games. 2017–18 EuroLeague Women - Wikipedia

 

[shizam]

Is this true? I believe that most of the players in Turkey and Europe and China and the Korean women's league are actually local athletes, not Americans. Indeed, I believe that European leagues maintain caps on the number of non-european players. Yet the fans still come out, and the leagues appear to thrive. Indeed, some American athletes are willing to skip the WNBA season in order to rest up from the European season. D took off a year because she was paid by her Russian team's owner to sit out. Emma Meeseman is sitting out this season to prepare for the world championships as a member of the Belgian national team. Yep, the Belgian team!

So the suggestion that the world revolves around the WNBA doesn't seem to hold up. And if these leagues are thriving, or at the very least, continue to exist in places like South Korea, Turkey, Russia and China, why in the world can't an American pro league, equipped with the best talent in the world, maintain a viable league in which its athletes are paid good salaries?

Something definitely doesn't add up. And I suspect that the mystery begins and ends with the NBA's lack of interest in its women's league.

What’s attendance and fan interest overseas?

 

[bballnut90]

Is this true? I believe that most of the players in Turkey and Europe and China and the Korean women's league are actually local athletes, not Americans. Indeed, I believe that European leagues maintain caps on the number of non-european players. Yet the fans still come out, and the leagues appear to thrive. Indeed, some American athletes are willing to skip the WNBA season in order to rest up from the European season. D took off a year because she was paid by her Russian team's owner to sit out. Emma Meeseman is sitting out this season to prepare for the world championships as a member of the Belgian national team. Yep, the Belgian team!

So the suggestion that the world revolves around the WNBA doesn't seem to hold up. And if these leagues are thriving, or at the very least, continue to exist in places like South Korea, Turkey, Russia and China, why in the world can't an American pro league, equipped with the best talent in the world, maintain a viable league in which its athletes are paid good salaries?

Something definitely doesn't add up. And I suspect that the mystery begins and ends with the NBA's lack of interest in its women's league.

Bizarre but appears to be true. Take a look at this article:
Why WNBA stars savor overseas experience

"Why the high salaries? It's not because the teams always make a lot of money, but often because the wealthy owners simply want a talented roster. As Taurasi said about Russian oligarch team owners back in 2007: "They're hotheads who want the best women's basketball team, and that's their hobby, so they don't care how much they pay.""