Karaban is our leader

[Dove]

Karaban is The Kure.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No he isn't. Far too passive on the court for his skill level. Doesn't demand the ball enough.

I agree on this, but to be honest, nobody really “demands” the ball.

But now that I think about it, who would you say is the leader? Newton by default? Idk

Either way you love to see what we have seen from him as a freshman. Can’t wait to see him develop more over the next couple years.

 

[husky429]

He's a guy who gets his in the flow of the offense. A leader doesn't have to be someone you force-feed the ball to.

Getting the ball to someone who is hot isn't "force-feeding." It's recognizing that Hawkins is 1/10,000 with his only make being a lucky break bank, and telling your teammates to "give me the danmed ball."

He's a freshman. It's not unsurprising he would defer in that moment, but a leader (a la KEA as a freshman) would have the ball in his hands.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I respect your basketball knowledge so correct me if you think I'm wrong on this observation. Some of Alex's passivity isn't so much him being deferntial, which he is at times, but it's the fact that he needs space to get his shot off. His release is slower and lower than someone like Jordan and he needs his feet set and be squared little better as well. He has not mastered the art of shot creating on his own and creating space where he can get ia shot off effectively. He will surprise you with a few drives to the hoop, but I expect that diversifying his offensive arsenal and learning to create space and quicken his shot will be on the offseason list to work on in the lab. That shot he made before half on the baseline was such an impressive play because he got it off quicker and it was contested.

Well let’s not conflate being a number one offensive option with being a leader

Draymond Green is arguably the leader of GSW

 

[husky429]

I agree on this, but to be honest, nobody really “demands” the ball.

But now that I think about it, who would you say is the leader? Newton by default? Idk

Either way you love to see what we have seen from him as a freshman. Can’t wait to see him develop more over the next couple years.

Demanding the ball was probably not the right word choice, but I'm sticking with it. Do you think KEA as a freshman would have had the ball in his hands on every possession in the last two minutes? Absolutely. Because he was a leader in every sense of the word from day 1. Doesn't mean he was going to be the one taking the shot, but he was the one who directed the offense and made the big play.

More often than not, Karaban isn't even looking at the rim when he gets the ball. He's looking to move the ball on the perimeter before he even catches it. That's not surprising for a freshman, but that's not a "leader" by any means. By junior year, he's going to be a star in these moments, and we'll understand what his leadership potential actually is.

Our leader is Andre. And the problem with that is when he isn't playing well, we are totally discombobulated. Usually, your leader is someone who can score or make a play in moments when things break down. Andre has great leadership qualities, but his skillset doesn't quite match that.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Said this in fewer words in the Providence postgame thread and was laughed at and told to get a clue.

People seem to think that if you have the most NBA potential that means that you are the one who has to take the shots in crunch time. That is absolutely not the case. I am sure Hawk is a great kid and he’s our best player, but you see over and over again that he’s not comfortable in crunch time. You can’t force that on a guy if he’s not mentally strong enough yet to handle it. Unfortunately it seems like Karaban is THE ONLY one who doesn’t panic in those spots.

I do wonder if this is something, going forward, that there are ways to recruit for. I personally remember watch Shabazz’s high school tape and immediately noticing that he clearly had a brass set. Hopefully the coaches are discussing ways to identify that calmness under pressure in recruits.

He was forced into that shot, he got the ball with like 3 seconds left. As a lot of people have said, when Hurley saw that the possession was pff the rails, he should’ve taken a TO. He sets up good plays out of timeouts, and 5 seconds is more than enough. Just a lapse from him there, he’ll learn.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Getting the ball to someone who is hot isn't "force-feeding." It's recognizing that Hawkins is 1/10,000 with his only make being a lucky break bank, and telling your teammates to "give me the danmed ball."

He's a freshman. It's not unsurprising he would defer in that moment, but a leader (a la KEA as a freshman) would have the ball in his hands.

I mean, he also plays a very different position than KEA, whose job was literally to have the ball in his hands.

Karaban is a catch and shoot guy, or someone who can make a straight-line, 1-dribble drive, or hit on a cut to the basket. He's not a guy you give the ball in an iso at 30 feet and tell everyone to clear out. And that's fine. That doesn't make him less of a leader.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

You can see it in the huddle when he's coaching the team along with Hurley
You can see it when he's the guy trying to rope back Newton when he didn't get yet another foul called on his drive
You can see it when he's the (only?) guy making clutch shots
It's great for our future, but says a lot about the current composition of the team.
Sanogo isn't the leader. It's always tough for a center to be one, and being from another country makes it harder
Newton - not a chance
Hawkins - could be but doesn't seem to want to be
Jackson - should be and can be, but losses his composure too much. I absolutely love that he owned it post game, and gives me hope he can self-correct for NCAA

I posted in Nov that our talent lacked a floor leader. I expected it to be Newton as the lead guard the most likely or Jackson as he has the skill set . To be fair to Newton it’s not easy to come from the outside and take over a team.
Khalid did it but he could get any group of guys to change into enemy fire as he was thevmost natural leader we ever had .
Cole who came here with leadership skills sat a year, and played a year , before he finally took control last year.
Maybe if Newton stays he he can make the complete transition . He is a Tate George type who emerged as a very good leader if not flashy on the dream team. Not ever leader is Kemba or has to be the best player on the team . What he has to be is a calming influence eho never loses his head who quickly identifies what the defense is giving us plus he absolutely has to be a stone cold assassin from the FT line.

 

[husky429]

I mean, he also plays a very different position than KEA, whose job was literally to have the ball in his hands.

Karaban is a catch and shoot guy, or someone who can make a straight-line, 1-dribble drive, or hit on a cut to the basket. He's not a guy you give the ball in an iso at 30 feet and tell everyone to clear out. And that's fine. That doesn't make him less of a leader.

A floor leader makes a big play in those moments whether or not they're a point guard. Every perimeter player on our team makes plays with the ball in their hands. This isn't 1984. Karaban deferred, as would be expected from a freshman. Watch him again... he doesn't even face the basket on some possessions--he immediately gives the ball to Newton, Hawkins, or Andre... that's not leadership. That's deferral. It's really as simple as that.

Doesn't mean he's a terrible player, or that he can't be a great leader next season. It means he's a freshman playing with a bunch of upperclassmen and trusted them. Nothing wrong with it. His leadership on the court will be paramount next year with all the new recruits, and I expect him to be a captain junior and senior year.

Agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Demanding the ball was probably not the right word choice, but I'm sticking with it. Do you think KEA as a freshman would have had the ball in his hands on every possession in the last two minutes? Absolutely. Because he was a leader in every sense of the word from day 1. Doesn't mean he was going to be the one taking the shot, but he was the one who directed the offense and made the big play.

More often than not, Karaban isn't even looking at the rim when he gets the ball. He's looking to move the ball on the perimeter before he even catches it. That's not surprising for a freshman, but that's not a "leader" by any means. By junior year, he's going to be a star in these moments, and we'll understand what his leadership potential actually is.

Our leader is Andre. And the problem with that is when he isn't playing well, we are totally discombobulated. Usually, your leader is someone who can score or make a play in moments when things break down. Andre has great leadership qualities, but his skillset doesn't quite match that.

Well, KEA had guard skills to initiate offense that AK just doesn’t have. He’s not super athletic and can’t create his own shot. Not sure he ever will. So I don’t think we can make that comparison or have that expectation. If that’s a necessary criterion for you to consider a player a “leader” then that’s fair enough as your opinion. But there’s something to be said about what he does in huddles. He can certainly be a leader when it comes to defense. I don’t see why he can’t be a Draymond Green type of leader.

 

[husky429]

Well, KEA had guard skills to initiate offense that AK just doesn’t have. He’s not super athletic and can’t create his own shot. Not sure he ever will. So I don’t think we can make that comparison or have that expectation. If that’s a necessary criterion for you to consider a player a “leader” then that’s fair enough as your opinion. But there’s something to be said about what he does in huddles. He can certainly be a leader when it comes to defense. I don’t see why he can’t be a Draymond Green type of leader.

Leaders make big plays in big moments. That doesn't mean he needs to initiate the offense. It means when the ball touches his hands, he makes a play instead of swinging the ball to Newton, Andre or Hawkins immediately before looking to make a winning play himself. He trusts his teammates. He doesn't fear the moment, that's just the hierarchy of things on the team right now.

Like I said in my other comment, every single player on our team outside of Sanogo can make plays with the ball in their hands. Karaban has done it dozens of times this year because he's really friggen talented. This isn't a point guard vs power forward thing. It's a freshman vs upperclassmen thing. He deferred to Newton and Hawkins down the stretch and no one should be surprised by that.

We're probably just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[UCfor3]

Well let’s not conflate being a number one offensive option with being a leader

Draymond Green is arguably the leader of GSW

I wasn't really. I was discussing with 429 about if his perceived offensive passivity was a mindset thing or just his offensive arsenal at this point in his development. Alex will be a great leader. Kid is mature, focused and not afraid of big moment or shot.

 

[HailUConn]

No he isn't. Far too passive on the court for his skill level. Doesn't demand the ball enough.

He is but a freshmen. For what I saw, he is way mature beyond his years. How many are like KEA? Not even Kemba or Shabazz in their first year.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Leaders make big plays in big moments. That doesn't mean he needs to initiate the offense. It means when the ball touches his hands, he makes a play instead of swinging the ball to Newton, Andre or Hawkins immediately before looking to make a winning play.

Like I said in my other comment, every single player on our team outside of Sanogo can make plays with the ball in their hands. Karaban has done it dozens of times this year because he's really friggen talented. This isn't a point guard vs power forward thing. It's a freshman vs upperclassmen thing. He deferred to Newton and Hawkins down the stretch and no one should be surprised by that.

We're probably just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Honestly, and I get that there are levels to it, but everyone has been passing up open looks all season. I don’t think we are way off on our opinions of AK. I think we are just talking about different aspects of what can make someone a leader. Officers in the military aren’t the ones killing the enemy.

 

[auror]

Karaban is The Kure.

Let's keep workshopping this one.