Kansas Post Game Thread

[Dogdeacon]

I was going to see if I could find an example to dispute this, but damn weve never played in a ranked road game during any of the years we made deep runs. Lmao

Don't be dense. This was OUR FIRST ROAD GAME OF THE YEAR, RANKED #4 playing #3 in the TOUGHEST ARENA in the damn country. No one is 'protecting' Hurley. I was calling for him to get Spencer out of the game when he was killing us like many. But I'm not going to come on here after the fact and pretend that I know better than the damn coach who should play in Allen Field House.

Aaaand when some good frosh moments happen down the road, maybe even b/c the coach saved those freshman the possible confidence killing embarrassment of crapping the bed in their first road game you DO NOT get to say I TOLD YOU SO. If you are such a great coach, go coach a college team into the top ten. Or maybe realize its just your opinion and it is FAR more likely to be wrong than right vs someone who is a coach and has ten thousand times the amount of info that you possess.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Ok then, so should we have tried one of them against Kansas or not? My answer is we should have tried one of them for a few minutes, more specifically in the first half. I prefer Stewart out of the two.

I will go out on a limb and say right now that Stewart should get at least 2-4 minutes against UNC regardless of circumstances. What say you?

That’s my argument and my philosophy and that’s what people here seem to be arguing against. The argument I’m seeing is that he and Ross cannot compete against a high major/elite opponent at this time. I disagree

It is very reasonable to believe that we could have given one or both a few minutes in the Kansas game and kept the game competitive.

What you are missing is that it is equally reasonable to believe that the approach Hurley took, ensuring that two of Clingan, Karaban and Johnson were manning the 4-5 spots at all times and three of the four healthy, reliable ballhandlers (Newton, Spencer, Ball and Diarra) were on the court at all times. We were in the game (after withstanding a few early haymakers) until the end and had an open shot to win with a few seconds left. You can speculate that the results could have been better if we took a different approach but that is merely speculation.

 

[tennmike]

I would like to see Stewart get some more time - particularly with the nagging injuries. I was really surprised how passive Solo was offensively in the Kansas game; he has the physical skills to match up. Seemed like he was standing aroand a lot.

 

[SeattleHoop]

It is very reasonable to believe that we could have given one or both a few minutes in the Kansas game and kept the game competitive.

What you are missing is that it is equally reasonable to believe that the approach Hurley took, ensuring that two of Clingan, Karaban and Johnson were manning the 4-5 spots at all times and three of the four healthy, reliable ballhandlers (Newton, Spencer, Ball and Diarra) were on the court at all times. We were in the game (after withstanding a few early haymakers) until the end and had an open shot to win with a few seconds left. You can speculate that the results could have been better if we took a different approach but that is merely speculation.

I am not even trying to argue that the results would have been better.
I am just saying it would have been worth a try to play just one of them for a few minutes.
I’m getting absolutely blasted for a perfectly reasonable and straightforward take.

 

[HuskyHawk]

No, but half the board got on me when I suggested he should have played more minutes than he was getting early on. Just like what is happening now. God forbid you have an opinion contrary to what coach Hurley does. I’m not saying I’m an expert. I personally just think he’s too tentative when it comes to playing freshman through mistakes early in the season

Hurley isn’t dumb. Carlton was actually quite effective as a Junior and Adama just simply stole his job and sent him packing. This board screamed for Diggins to play, but there were reasons why he didn’t. In this case, Hurley chose Ball and a hobbled Spencer over Stewart. Why? My guess is that he (a) doesn’t understand the defensive rotations, especially rim protection at the SF spot and (b) remains very hesitant on offense when he’s in. Point (a) was exacerbated by the fact that he’d be guarding KU’s leading scorer.

I expect Stewart to play more against UNC due to injuries and play more still the next game. He is going to be a contributor but playing at UConn isn’t like playing at Washington. The competition for minutes is much greater.

 

[SeattleHoop]

Stewart should get 10 minutes against UNC, because it's not a remotely similar to the environment to on the road against Kansas. By the time Spencer was hurt and that situation came up it was too risky to use him against Kansas down double digits.

Nobody is saying they don't need minutes, down double digits on the road is not the time. Every coach in the country is shortening their rotation in that situation. Hurley has proven year after year he plays freshmen, despite whatever false narrative you try and spin

Interesting.
I would argue we have a lot less to lose in a game on the road where we are literally expected to lose and we are the underdogs vs a game where we are expected to probably win at MSG but okay sure. Cover your basis.

Imo when your back is against the wall in a foreign land and you are about to be knocked out is the perfect time to start swinging and pull out all the cards in the stack. But hey that’s just me

 

[UConnSwag11]

 

[Excalibur]

Ok then, so should we have tried one of them against Kansas or not? My answer is we should have tried one of them for a few minutes, more specifically in the first half. I prefer Stewart out of the two.

I will go out on a limb and say right now that Stewart should get at least 2-4 minutes against UNC regardless of circumstances. What say you?

That’s my argument and my philosophy and that’s what people here seem to be arguing against. The argument I’m seeing is that he and Ross cannot compete against a high major/elite opponent at this time. I disagree

If Hurley had brought in Stewart down double digits in the first half on Friday, I would have flown to Kansas to choke the life out of him myself.

 

[uconnfan68]

Predictable (and predicted by me) given that Karaban was guarding him. Refs didn't decide the game. UConn missing FTs probably did.

If their non-calls didn’t hurt I’d be ok with them. Replay clearly showed Diarra’s arm grabbed, so lost ball instead of a layup. There were other muggings too that went against us. If KU shot like they did all year we would have won. Couldn’t overcome their defense, shooting, and bad or no calls. The dreaded trifecta.

 

[SeattleHoop]

If Hurley had brought in Stewart down double digits in the first half on Friday, I would have flown to Kansas to choke the life out of him myself.

Just a totally different philosophy for me. The group we had in was the reason for the deficit. So imo you try something new.

This is way I prefer to lurk than to post. I’m sure a few here would be fine with that too

 

[Deleted at users request]

If Hurley had brought in Stewart down double digits in the first half on Friday, I would have flown to Kansas to choke the life out of him myself.

Anybody have the thought that he may just live for the big moment and love atmospheres like that?

the coach saved those freshman the possible confidence killing embarrassment of crapping the bed in their first road game

I think Dirk just did an interview on how he was embarrassed so much by 2007 it made him improve his game for 2011.

Failure is a great thing to get out the way early.

It’s clear some of yall have never hooped.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Anybody have the thought that he may just live for the big moment and love atmospheres like that?



I think Dirk just did an interview on how he was embarrassed so much by 2007 it made him improve his game for 2011.

Failure is a great thing to get out the way early.

It’s clear some of yall have never hooped.

Oh so now the spin is 'he' (Ross or Stewart) would have crapped the bed and that helps down the road and the greatest European NBA success story of all time is your comp?!

That same motivating factor is available by not getting/earning playing time = work harder to DESERVE to be in the game - give the coach no choice but to put you into lineup.

The not playing hoops comment is just dumb when you don't know who you are talking to. Nothing can be 'clear' on the anonymous internet other than that HuskyWarrior611's poor supposition skills lead to increasingly bad takes.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Oh so now the spin is 'he' (Ross or Stewart) would have crapped the bed and that helps down the road and the greatest European NBA success story of all time is your comp?!

That same motivating factor is available by not getting/earning playing time = work harder to DESERVE to be in the game - give the coach no choice but to put you into lineup.

I don’t even know why the assumption always has to be that they will fail in the first place.

That’s the biggest issue with a lot of these stances is the belief that you clearly don’t have in these players.

 

[husky429]

All this thread does is remind me that we could use a system for settling 'yard disputes.

You want to say stupid things? That's fine, but you better be ready for 5 rounds in the octagon with me, thank you very much.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don’t even know why the assumption always has to be that they will fail in the first place.

That’s the biggest issue with a lot of these stances is the belief that you clearly don’t have in these players.

What and endless thread. The belief is that the coaching staff that works with these guys every day has a much better sense of whether they are ready to play in a game like last Friday than you do. Or I do. Or the Seattle guy does. Given that Cam was hurt and played like crap honestly, and Stewart and Ross still didn't get in, I'm fairly comfortable suggesting that they aren't ready for a game like that.

I'm not sure people appreciate how hard our defense and offense are to run. We aren't running ordinary stuff these guys ran in HS. Our whole rough stretch last year came when teams exposed our inability to cover the paint when the 5 is out. It's a lot of responsibility to know if it's your job to move off your man and cover the paint and when to move back and have somebody else take it. When Hurley suggested Castle might not start before the season, that was why. He didn't have it down. Given that Hunter shoots from outside, we know that DC/SJ would need to move out to cover him. So that defensive rotation was absolutely critical. It is less critical tonight.

 

[husky429]

What and endless thread. The belief is that the coaching staff that works with these guys every day has a much better sense of whether they are ready to play in a game like last Friday than you do.

Anyone who has spent time coaching knows how ridiculous people are about PT. No coach is TRYING TO LOSE GAMES by not playing positive contributors.

If the young guns showed they had the skill to contribute in the dozens and dozens of practice hours the coaches have seen... well, they would be on the floor.

That doesn't mean if they come back next year an improved player that Hurley and co. dropped the ball. It means they improved enough to play.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Anyone who has spent time coaching knows how ridiculous people are about PT. No coach is TRYING TO LOSE GAMES by not playing positive contributors.

If the young guns showed they had the skill to contribute in the dozens and dozens of practice hours the coaches have seen... well, they would be on the floor.

That doesn't mean if they come back next year an improved player that Hurley and co. dropped the ball. It means they improved enough to play.

Great point, PT is the #1-10 thing that people who aren't coaching or haven't bytch about.

I had a parent last year talking to the HC right after a game in front of his son to call out the coach for not playing him. The kid had been to 50% of the practices (always botched plays & was out of position) and showed up in the 2ndQ of this particular game with a practice jersey on instead of a uniform. The parent's exactly backwards main point/question was; "how is my son supposed to commit to this team if he isn't given playing time?!"

 

[CL82]

What and endless thread. The belief is that the coaching staff that works with these guys every day has a much better sense of whether they are ready to play in a game like last Friday than you do. Or I do. Or the Seattle guy does. Given that Cam was hurt and played like crap honestly, and Stewart and Ross still didn't get in, I'm fairly comfortable suggesting that they aren't ready for a game like that.

I'm not sure people appreciate how hard our defense and offense are to run. We aren't running ordinary stuff these guys ran in HS. Our whole rough stretch last year came when teams exposed our inability to cover the paint when the 5 is out. It's a lot of responsibility to know if it's your job to move off your man and cover the paint and when to move back and have somebody else take it. When Hurley suggested Castle might not start before the season, that was why. He didn't have it down. Given that Hunter shoots from outside, we know that DC/SJ would need to move out to cover him. So that defensive rotation was absolutely critical. It is less critical tonight.

Well, how about this for a 'productive' detour... What was the take of your Jayhawk brethren about the team, the game, etc.?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well, how about this for a 'productive' detour... What was the take of your Jayhawk brethren about the team, the game, etc.?

They didn't like Hurley. Admittedly, we were behind the UConn bench. They thought Newton was amazing. They were generally worried when we took a lead, because it was clear KU played a great first half and yet was only up 7. Then UConn started scoring more regularly. They were impressed at how well UConn traveled. That's pretty unusual for a visiting fanbase that isn't K-State, Missouri or Indiana.

As for the fans, they think the UConn chant is a bit repetitive and unimaginative (it is). But the fans all got along. I saw young UConn guys near me chatting with older KU fans and everybody was enjoying the moment. At the bars everybody got along. As I said before, don't judge either fanbase on the Twitter trolls who are trying to instigate. Both teams' fans are deep, real fans of the sport of college basketball. So there is a real mutual respect.

 

[CL82]

They didn't like Hurley. Admittedly, we were behind the UConn bench. They thought Newton was amazing. They were generally worried when we took a lead, because it was clear KU played a great first half and yet was only up 7. Then UConn started scoring more regularly. They were impressed at how well UConn traveled. That's pretty unusual for a visiting fanbase that isn't K-State, Missouri or Indiana.

As for the fans, they think the UConn chant is a bit repetitive and unimaginative (it is). But the fans all got along. I saw young UConn guys near me chatting with older KU fans and everybody was enjoying the moment. At the bars everybody got along. As I said before, don't judge either fanbase on the Twitter trolls who are trying to instigate. Both teams' fans are deep, real fans of the sport of college basketball. So there is a real mutual respect.

For what it's worth, I was amazed at how well Indiana traveled to MSG and told them so. I had quite a few conversations with their fans and they struck me the same way, friendly and generally knowledgeable about the game.

I love the UCONN chant. There's nothing better after an opposing team is forced to take a time out then listening to that deafening chant across arena. The UConn/Husky/woof chant gets overused sometimes. I agree with @8893 that it's best use is before or after the game, particularly entering or exiting an arena.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For what it's worth, I was amazed at how well Indiana traveled to MSG and told them so. I had quite a few conversations with their fans and they struck me the same way, friendly and generally knowledgeable about the game.

Yeah, the other article I posted the KU fans compared us to IU in terms of travel. K-State and Missouri travel well to KU, like Providence does to UConn, but to do it long distance is a different thing.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I know I'll end up kicking myself for continuing this but the trainwreck this thread has become is nearly impossible to look away from.

One of our freshman did play significant minutes in Kansas. The take the Dan Hurley didn't want to give any of the kids a chance is insane.

The one who did play was healthy, is a reasonably capable ball handler for a wing and has physically mature body. None of our other freshmen could check all three of those boxes this past Friday evening.

If you look back at posts of mine from early summer you will see that I have been as high on Ross as anyone here. I believe that he will turn into a tremendous player for us and greatly exceed the expectations of most of our fan base. That said, he didn't belong in the court last Friday. He isn't physically ready to play inside or defend anyone on Kansas and if he was used as a spot up wing, it would have made it easier for Kansas to force the issue with our ball handlers.

Stewart is better physically equipped but he also is not enough of a ball handler to play the three and at the four Kansas would have had a mismatch.

I don't believe the plan was to limit our rotation as severely as we did but it was obvious that we weren't expecting Kansas to blitz the ball handlers (and overplay everyone else) to the level they did and Hurley viewed the shorter rotation as the best path to win the game (by the way, it almost worked).

In retrospect it is easy to say "we would have lost anyway so why not play the other kids" but in the heat of battle, in a game that we were in until literally the final seconds, a head coach can't start trying things just for the sake of seeing what happens.

 

[Waquoit]

Karaban's 5th foul was a weak call. Without it, that last shot is his and goes in.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I don’t even know why the assumption always has to be that they will fail in the first place.

That’s the biggest issue with a lot of these stances is the belief that you clearly don’t have in these players.

Wow 'the belief you clearly don't have' is an all-timer for the 'yard and the English language!
I don't believe that I ever posted such a stance or believe in that assumption. Instead, I believe that I clearly applied your unbelievable Dirk analogy of a poor result/performance motivating.

To be clear, I don't know or believe anyone would fail. I only know and believe anyone that didn't play didn't play for multitudes of reasons & I can't assume clear knowledge of those reasons.

Further, I do believe the stance that some people think they know better than the coaches is the issue. And l believe there will never* be a clear response much less proof to this issue because one doesn't exist. Specifically what, how, why one has a belief that he/she knows something that is better than what the coaches believe.

*when the clear proof exists we can assume said poster will vault for the obscurity of the boneyard to a SEVEN year $37.5MM head coaching gig on the UConn sideline!

 

[husky429]

Karaban's 5th foul was a weak call. Without it, that last shot is his and goes in.

It feels like he's shooting 85% on buzzer-beaters, and I'm all for it. Has he EVER missed a big shot?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Karaban's 5th foul was a weak call. Without it, that last shot is his and goes in.

It was a silly reach by AK.

 

[superjohn]

Everyone, @HuskyWarrior611 is a hooper. We got a hooper in here.

 

[superjohn]

Karaban's 5th foul was a weak call. Without it, that last shot is his and goes in.

Fouls don't really get any more obvious than that.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Everyone, @HuskyWarrior611 is a hooper. We got a hooper in here.

Not to derail this thread - or maybe it should be derailed - but Baldwin's scenes with Stiller are great. The urinal scene especially. I laugh every time he farts, slaps Stiller's ass, and then rubs his earlobe. "Good things."

 

[Waquoit]

Fouls don't really get any more obvious than that.

I can get you to say anything.