Just Venting - Rutgers

[DMTCYNAW]

Hey all,

just curious (but also venting in frustration) - was/is rutgers more worthy than us to be at the big-boys table?
I am asking for the specifics surrounding the story of Rutgers - the more "complex" dynamics that made them jump out over, say.... a UConn.

I know the obvious things about the rutgers value proposition to B1G, if you can even call it that:

• NY TV market (irrelevant IMO, we stream anyway)
• fine "enough" academic school (they do some good research there espcially with Woody Johnson support - overall not bad but def not great - i'd say no better than uconn and certainly nothing special in the B1G compared to the research output by Michigan, Ohio State, etc. - they don't compare to those schools at all, IMO)

But i am also aware of:

• mediocre basketball
• mediocre football (better than us sure, but srsly would we be worse than them had we gotten in?)
  • honestly, they feel almost like a twin to us in football - Greg Schiano had a glory days run, got ray rice for a bit, leveraged that to go to a "better" job (NFL), failed miserably there, and then came back to be a non-factor in his team's new league... sound familiar?
• historical big east peer of ours - did we do any worse than them at during BE football days?

idk... all of this just makes no sense. it can't just be the NY tv market thing... why in the world is Rutgers safely eating the filet mignon, while we're flailing in the wind and Jim Mora had to practically cry in a press conference to get some money for players.

My unsolicited opinion - they deserve to be in B1G just about as much as we do - which is 0%. - is there a risk actually valuable B1G schools will kick them out either thru a vote or just paying them unacceptably less in a future distrubition deal? sry if this is a re-run of past talks, just curious about their particular situation.

 

[Tex-Lager93]

Enrollment, NYC...and AAU Status. The whole University of Utah discussion is the same - AAU status. It's something we should have been striving for years ago.

 

[uconnyankee]

Hey all,

just curious (but also venting in frustration) - was/is rutgers more worthy than us to be at the big-boys table?
I am asking for the specifics surrounding the story of Rutgers - the more "complex" dynamics that made them jump out over, say.... a UConn.

I know the obvious things about the rutgers value proposition to B1G, if you can even call it that:

• NY TV market (irrelevant IMO, we stream anyway)
• fine "enough" academic school (they do some good research there espcially with Woody Johnson support - overall not bad but def not great - i'd say no better than uconn and certainly nothing special in the B1G compared to the research output by Michigan, Ohio State, etc. - they don't compare to those schools at all, IMO)

But i am also aware of:

• mediocre basketball
• mediocre football (better than us sure, but srsly would we be worse than them had we gotten in?)
  • honestly, they feel almost like a twin to us in football - Greg Schiano had a glory days run, got ray rice for a bit, leveraged that to go to a "better" job (NFL), failed miserably there, and then came back to be a non-factor in his team's new league... sound familiar?
• historical big east peer of ours - did we do any worse than them at during BE football days?

idk... all of this just makes no sense. it can't just be the NY tv market thing... why in the world is Rutgers safely eating the filet mignon, while we're flailing in the wind and Jim Mora had to practically cry in a press conference to get some money for players.

My unsolicited opinion - they deserve to be in B1G just about as much as we do - which is 0%. - is there a risk actually valuable B1G schools will kick them out either thru a vote or just paying them unacceptably less in a future distrubition deal? sry if this is a re-run of past talks, just curious about their particular situation.

No. They don’t based on field/court achievements. But they have a populous state so that’s their golden ticket.

 

[DMTCYNAW]

Enrollment, NYC...and AAU Status. The whole University of Utah discussion is the same - AAU status. It's something we should have been striving for years ago.

ah yes i forgot about AAU - they have just enough academic output to get the badge.

 

[McLovin]

Back in 2014 when Rutgers was added, streaming was at its infancy and cable box subscribers was what the B1G coveted.

That’s the only reason they were added.

 

[DMTCYNAW]

That’s the only reason they were added.

are you certain of ^ this?
i am willing to accept if it truly is, but that just feels like not enough reason to accept a school as meh as Rutgers, LET ALONE giving them a golden parachute $$$. If this is all there was, then wow the B1G really wanted their schools on NYC television sets, and would have added bergen community college as long as it got MIchigan & Ohio State playing on New York TV screens... LOL

 

[Rufus]

This is not the reason Rutgers was added to the B1G, but one other advantage Rutgers has over UConn is recruiting. There are more 4-star football players in New Jersey than there are in Connecticut.

New Jersey was a contiguous state to the B1G, as it boarders Pennsylvania. Until this year, the B1G was only comprised of universities in contiguous states. For Connecticut to be contiguous, the B1G would have had to add a university in New York (Syracuse).

Neither of these reasons are why the B1G added them, but they fit the B1G profile of what the B1G has done up to this year.

 

[Rufus]

Nate Silver came out with this article in the days following the addition of USC and UCLA. It shows how far down the list UConn actually is for the B1G based on multiple metrics. Rutgers is the lowest scoring B1G school on the metrics he uses, yet Rutgers is still ranked higher than UConn based on his metrics.

Where Should The Big Ten Expand Next? We Crunched The Numbers.

Which schools should the Big Ten poach next?

fivethirtyeight.com

Based on Sports, Fit, and Market, Rutgers comes in dead last in the B1G with a composite score of 42. UConn scores a 31.

The figures in this article are slightly outdated. He gave points for AAU membership. At the time, Notre Dame, Miami and Arizona State were not in the AAU, so their scores would be higher today based on this particular metric.

Rutgers:
Sports - 8
Fit - 79
Market - 38
Composite - 42


UConn:
Sports - 24
Fit - 51
Market - 17
Composite - 31


UConn beats Rutgers in Sports (24/8) but loses in terms of Fit (51/79) and Market (17/38). Silver explains what he means by Fit (and all categories) in the article.

 

[ScottVib]

Rutgers was added to get the higher rates for the Big Ten Network across the NYC DMA... it wasn't about athletic fit; academics were fine; but it was purely a market grab, which along with the Maryland addition gave them access to the DC, Baltimore and NYC markets. Penn state had already given them Philly, so they now controlled the mid-atlantic.

It's the same model that made owning RSNs initially profitable for sports franchises.. but once the municipally granted cable monopolies lost the ability to pass on subscriber fee increases with little fear of subscriber loss the model fell over.

 

[Vowelguy]

I would second the HS recruiting in NJ helping.

Plus RU was definitely the ugliest house on the street -- had to believe that with some investment they had potential. (They certainly couldn't have been much worse when the BiG grabbed them.)

And providing an opportunity for BiG schools to increase their engagement with their NYC alumni.

 

[Forte]

NYC Market vs. Storrs
Birthplace of College football (history)
AAU Status

Most importantly not being the absolute unchallenged laughing stock of college football when conference realignment mattered.

Rutgers records leading up to:

• 2007: 8-5
• 2008: 8-5
• 2009: 9-4
• 2010: 4-8
• 2011: 9-4

UConns records past decade in hopes of leading up to..:

• 2013: 3-9
• 2014: 2-10
• 2015: 6-7
• 2016: 3-9
• 2017: 3-9
• 2018: 1-11
• 2019: 2-10
• 2020: Season canceled due to COVID-19
• 2021: 1-11
• 2022: 6-7
• 2023: 3-9

 

[McLovin]

are you certain of ^ this?
i am willing to accept if it truly is, but that just feels like not enough reason to accept a school as meh as Rutgers, LET ALONE giving them a golden parachute $$$. If this is all there was, then wow the B1G really wanted their schools on NYC television sets, and would have added bergen community college as long as it got MIchigan & Ohio State playing on New York TV screens... LOL

The B1G will never come out an say it is the reason they were added, but it was estimated at the time that adding Rutgers brought in an extra $50 million per year from the new cable subscriber access the network was able to get in NY and NJ by adding them to the conference.

Which at the time was more than double what they were paying Rutgers in media distributions per year to join the league.

Big Ten Network hits the NYC jackpot worth tens of millions of dollars

When the Big Ten added Rutgers and Maryland, the college sports world scratched their collective heads. Here were two schools that had little to no previous connection to the conference, a mediocre athletic resume (especially where it counts in football), and a distant geographic relationship...

awfulannouncing.com

 

[Vowelguy]

NYC Market vs. Storrs
Birthplace of College football (history)
AAU Status

Most importantly not being the absolute unchallenged laughing stock of college football when conference realignment mattered.

NYC Market vs. Storrs 500 POINTS
Birthplace of College football (history) 1 POINT
AAU Status 10 POINTS

Most importantly not being the absolute unchallenged laughing stock of college football when conference realignment mattered. 50 POINTS

 

[Bongo Fury]

NYC Market vs. Storrs
Birthplace of College football (history)
AAU Status

Most importantly not being the absolute unchallenged laughing stock of college football when conference realignment mattered.

Rutgers records leading up to:

• 2007: 8-5
• 2008: 8-5
• 2009: 9-4
• 2010: 4-8
• 2011: 9-4

UConns records past decade in hopes of leading up to..:

• 2013: 3-9
• 2014: 2-10
• 2015: 6-7
• 2016: 3-9
• 2017: 3-9
• 2018: 1-11
• 2019: 2-10
• 2020: Season canceled due to COVID-19
• 2021: 1-11
• 2022: 6-7
• 2023: 3-9

Was the 2007-2011 Rutgers or UConn? How many Big East football championships did Rutgers win?

 

[BigTenFan]

Think of the new B1G10 as the Dow Jones 30....just an amalgamation of teams from all over.
Many of the original rivalries and traditions are history.

 

[Ha Who]

NYC Market vs. Storrs
Birthplace of College football (history)
AAU Status

Most importantly not being the absolute unchallenged laughing stock of college football when conference realignment mattered.

Rutgers records leading up to:

• 2007: 8-5
• 2008: 8-5
• 2009: 9-4
• 2010: 4-8
• 2011: 9-4

UConns records past decade in hopes of leading up to..:

• 2013: 3-9
• 2014: 2-10
• 2015: 6-7
• 2016: 3-9
• 2017: 3-9
• 2018: 1-11
• 2019: 2-10
• 2020: Season canceled due to COVID-19
• 2021: 1-11
• 2022: 6-7
• 2023: 3-9

UConn

2007 9-4
2008 8-5
2009 8-5
2010 8-5
2011 5-7

 

[Chuck]

Rutgers checked off a lot more boxes than people realize. The only box UConn checked over Rutgers is non-football success. We checked that box real hard and dark, but nobody cares. One more piece that doesn’t get mentioned is that Rutgers had also been lobbying the Big Ten for years. Before they were even in the Big East. Rutgers had good will amongst the Presidents.

 

[huskymedic]

Rutgers checked off a lot more boxes than people realize. The only box UConn checked over Rutgers is non-football success. We checked that box real hard and dark, but nobody cares. One more piece that doesn’t get mentioned is that Rutgers had also been lobbying the Big Ten for years. Before they were even in the Big East. Rutgers had good will amongst the Presidents.

Rutgers had Tim Pernetti - UConn had Jeff Hathaway.

 

[Pat125]

A lot of CR is right place, right time, and luck. Rutgers, and Maryland got in the Big Ten in the only window of opportunity they both had.

 

[jostar1]

Rutgers had Tim Pernetti - UConn had Jeff Hathaway.

Here is an article about how Tim Pernetti got Rutgers into the Big 10.

How Rutgers crashed the Big Ten: The inside story 10 years later

Rutgers was invited to join the Big Ten 10 years ago, a transformative moment for the university that many believed would never happen.

www.nj.com

 

[CL82]

Nate Silver came out with this article in the days following the addition of USC and UCLA. It shows how far down the list UConn actually is for the B1G based on multiple metrics. Rutgers is the lowest scoring B1G school on the metrics he uses, yet Rutgers is still ranked higher than UConn based on his metrics.

Where Should The Big Ten Expand Next? We Crunched The Numbers.

Which schools should the Big Ten poach next?

fivethirtyeight.com

Based on Sports, Fit, and Market, Rutgers comes in dead last in the B1G with a composite score of 42. UConn scores a 31.

The figures in this article are slightly outdated. He gave points for AAU membership. At the time, Notre Dame, Miami and Arizona State were not in the AAU, so their scores would be higher today based on this particular metric.

Rutgers:
Sports - 8
Fit - 79
Market - 38
Composite - 42


UConn:
Sports - 24
Fit - 51
Market - 17
Composite - 31


UConn beats Rutgers in Sports (24/8) but loses in terms of Fit (51/79) and Market (17/38). Silver explains what he means by Fit (and all categories) in the article.

If you read the criteria you can see that it's heavily football laden. With football occupying more than one slot 2 of the three categories. Given the bad coaching hires we've had that creates a pretty deep hole for us in Silvers metric.

They are also is some circular reasoning in that they look at athletic department revenue as a criteria, but any team that joined the Big Ten would immediately bumped to the top of the revenue criteria.

There's a whole lot of numbers in the article, but quantity of data doesn't necessarily mean quality of data.

That said we are not a candidate for the Big Ten.

 

[CL82]

Rutgers checked off a lot more boxes than people realize. The only box UConn checked over Rutgers is non-football success. We checked that box real hard and dark, but nobody cares. One more piece that doesn’t get mentioned is that Rutgers had also been lobbying the Big Ten for years. Before they were even in the Big East. Rutgers had good will amongst the Presidents.

The big 10 had been grooming Rutgers for years. With informal discussions of the things they needed to improve and no promise that they would ever get an invite. That was actually a very long I'm going courtship.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Does anybody old enough to remember The Beverly Hillbillies?... Rutgers is like the Clampetts.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Rutgers started planning, then lobbying for a B1G invitation two decades prior to receiving it. Yes, they were very fortunate due to location and timing but it wasn't something that fell into their laps while we were out working them for the same goal.

Yes, New Jersey being a quality recruiting state was among the silver linings that could justify the addition if the athletic addition proved a failure but a few B1G schools already had long standing connections in the state and had been recruiting there successfully for decades.

Yes, proximity to NYC was another but Rutgers didn't land the conference in NYC and that was never expected.

The biggest timing break Rutgers received was the cable environment at that time. In all other B1G states the BTN's standard demand was that it would be included on the lowest level sports tier in that state. Once Rutgers became a B1G school, the cable providers were in a position where they would attempt to pass the costs off to the consumers and the consumers would either drop the service (the increase wasn't large enough at that time to effect this in a large number) or the state regulating agency could step in, but as this was benefitting a state entity (RU), there was no benefit to this.

Basically Rutgers had a ramshackle house on a very valuable piece of land, slapped a coat of paint on the house and found a buyer willing to pay a premium for it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

A lot of CR is right place, right time, and luck. Rutgers, and Maryland got in the Big Ten in the only window of opportunity they both had.

This +1000

There was a small window where the Big 10 would be interested in two mediocre (or worse) athletic programs like these two, and Rutgers was smart enough to say yes. To Maryland’s credit, they ended up paying a big exit fee to the ACC (at least $31 million), which was obviously worth it.