just to recap ....

[upstater]

Frank, thanks for all these posts. I continue to believe that the lack of history works strongly against UConn. It creates a mental barrier that we need to actively work to overcome. Too often I see people here focus on recent W-L records, or bowl appearances. My L-School alma mater, KU, has a dreadful football team now. But it produced Gayle Sayers, Nolan Cromwell, Dana Stubblefield (during my time) and has won Orange Bowls, even recently. One Gayle Sayers running in black and white is worth much more than 11 years of mostly decent records for a young FBS program and a few bowl games.

We've done some of the real work, with a stadium nicer and larger than Cinci's, and football facilities that are truly top of the line. New hoops facility going in as well. Basketball championships are a differentiator in my book, even if football is primary. The TV market is under-rated and is larger than it seems, due to Fairfield county's inclusion in the NY DMA. The Academics are good and research is growing dramatically. So I don't see the administration resting and assuming anything. They are indeed doing the right things. I am not sure they are waging the information war necessary to overcome the lack of football history. Our total athletic department budget (around $62M) is similar to Missouri, Cal, UCLA and others and dwarves the budget at most other schools not in a big 5 conference, including Cinci.

But do most Big Ten people know this? I don't think so. My private fear is that the school, which has made the investments, will lose patience while the old boys network decides if we can join the club. So I would hope, that privately, there is encouragement to stay the course from people like Delany.

One thing to consider about the budget. all those schools you mentioned get a $15 million bump in TV fees alone, so they start the race ahead of UConn. Presumably, if UConn were in a BCS conference, it would leap into the $80m range rather easily and with increased attendance from a top notch schedule, it might vault into the $90 million range. It's at $65m now, you add $17-25m to that, sell more tix, and look what you have.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yeah, Cincinnati's small stadium (despite being on-campus) is going to be a knock against them and they don't really have any space to do anything about it. That's why I point out UNLV's plans at least with respect to further Big 12 expansion - that's a fast-growing market and, if they actually get the stadium that they have sketched out in plans, they can vault to the top of the expansion list pretty quickly. Houston is getting a brand-new on-campus stadium, too. I'm just saying that the bar keeps getting raised.

While this doesn't help UConn (or WVU, as if I care), I think the Big 12 is absolutely freaking crazy if it does not expand westward. UNLV, BYU, Nevada should be top of the list. New Mexico if they can agree to upgrade facilities and make the investments. Flagship state U's are the name of the game. With Mizzou gone, the Big 12 is a southwestern conference, with Iowa St. and WVU as outliers.

 

[CTMike]

Our lack of history (Sorry Carl and Butchy) "is what it is"... Only time helps that. The question is if someone will have the foresight and vision to see that, with a little conference help, UConn Football can thrive and flourish.

 

[HuskyHawk]

One thing to consider about the budget. all those schools you mentioned get a $15 million bump in TV fees alone, so they start the race ahead of UConn. Presumably, if UConn were in a BCS conference, it would leap into the $80m range rather easily and with increased attendance from a top notch schedule, it might vault into the $90 million range. It's at $65m now, you add $17-25m to that, sell more tix, and look what you have.

Yes, easily. I think it is also true that fans in the north-east are hard to please. People here follow the Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, Patriots, Celtics, Knicks, Bruins and Rangers. Those are all iconic teams in their respective leagues.

We've done pretty well attendance wise, but honestly, if Ohio St., Penn St. Michigan, Wisconsin, Nebraska etc. were coming to town, we'd fill 55k pretty easily. Iconic programs would be a huge draw. It will be the same for Rutgers in NJ. It almost doesn't matter how they play, the names coming in will draw fans and turn on TVs.

It's a catch 22. The biggest limiting factor on UConn is lack of association with an inconic league and iconic programs, and yet we can't get it because we haven't done enough. Ironically, it's the opposite of say, Nebraska, which fills Lincoln no matter who they play. Their value is independent of the league. UConn becomes much more valuable in the B1G than it was in the Big East, or is in the AAC or would be in the ACC.

 

[freescooter]

For what its worth Frank, our on campus facilities for football are comparable to anything anyone in the Big Ten can offer. Truly. The model for the Shenkman Center was Nebraska's facility. It contains a full sized field, 95 feet high to the roof so you can actively work on kicking. It contains workout areas, 70 yard field turf straightaways in the balconies with timing devices...It is superior to anything certainly in the east, and comparable with anything in the country. The Burton Center, adjacent to Shenkman is equally state of the art with everything from coaches offices, sports medicine, food service locker rooms meeting rooms, study areas and academic support. This stuff is comparable to any program in the country.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Comparing us to FSU and Oklahoma academically is little more than trolling. Find a single national employer that feels that way.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Exactly. Even if it was breakable in theory, none of the Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12 or ACC want to even test it because they have a direct vested interest in ensuring that a grant of rights is enforceable. Obviously, one can never say never. However, the structural paramaters are in place to end power conference realignment today that weren't in place before. A league like the Big Ten doesn't expand just for the sake of expanding (as much as people here might be skeptical of the Rutgers move, and I'm one of them, that school has been on the radar of the Big Ten for over 20 years - it didn't pop out of nowhere). Maryland, believe it or not, was one of those schools that the Big Ten has been waiting for over a long period of time and Rutgers got a lifeline as a result of that. For further realignment to happen, another piece that the Big Ten has been waiting for needs to shake loose. Those are schools like UVA and UNC. They don't include the likes of Missouri (who the Big Ten has passed over multiple times). The only way that I see a power conference making another move over the next decade is the Big 12 trying to get back up to 12 and they simply aren't enthused with their options.

It is not breakable in theory. When you sell your house, you can't come back 2 years later and change your mind. You sold your house. A GOR is basically the same principle.

 

[Rumrunner]

frank is a bit chagrined that unc and uva aren't coming to the big. that's not a bad thing. if i played in the big ten sandbox, i'd only want perfumed beauties to enter, too.

at the same time, just cuz you didn't get what you want doesn't mean you won't get what you didn't want. an invite by the big ten will be decided based on carriage negotiations scheduled to start in the next few months. if nyc cable says you want a piece of this, then you jump as high as you have to.

does that mean that the big ten is told to get carriage:

a) you the big ten pay us to get on(not an out of the world stance)
or
b)you get sport tier coverage
or
c)you get basic at $.05 or $.90

Based on uconn's proven numbers with sny, insert uconn in the above negotiations. If cable doesn't satisfactorily bite based on rutgers and legacy big ten pull in metro ny, does addition of uconn make sense.

if the big ten writes off ny metro and only goes for nj, uconn is in trouble. somehow I don't see the big ten giving up on nyc, though. and something tells me silverman selling 365 days rutgers content to nyc will be met with quite a few jaws on the floor.

 

[noeynox]

Just when I think I'm over Sue and Warde sipping Mai Thais in the Bahamas, Frank has to come on here and tell us that we shouldn't be monitoring while the Oliver Lucks and Tom Jurich's are out pimping. Pimping ain't easy bitches. Today I had to read quotes from Warde puffing his chest out. Today, when the battle seems more lost than at any other time in conference realignment, you can quote him that we are kicking ass and taking names. Yet, when there was an opening in the ACC, for which we were considered front runners we were monitoring and landscaping. Promise to never post about that again. But damn it, WTF were people at UConn thinking? That Jurich just wanted to hear himself? God this irritates the out of me.

 

[CTMike]

Just when I think I'm over Sue and Warde sipping Mai Thais in the Bahamas, Frank has to come on here and tell us that we shouldn't be monitoring while the Oliver Lucks and Tom Jurich's are out pimping. Pimping ain't easy bitches. Today I had to read quotes from Warde puffing his chest out. Today, when the battle seems more lost than at any other time in conference realignment, you can quote him that we are kicking ass and taking names. Yet, when there was an opening in the ACC, for which we were considered front runners we were monitoring and landscaping. Promise to never post about that again. But damn it, WTF were people at UConn thinking? That Jurich just wanted to hear himself? God this irritates the out of me.

Great post, Noey. I really fear that Warde and Manual are content to sit back and count championships instead of being hungry and pulling out all the stops to improve our situation. "So what if we are relegated to a crap conference. Kiss the rings!" UGHHHH...... so short sighted...

 

[The Funster]

I think Susan and Warde were hurt by shifting goal posts more than anything.

It was supoosed to be Cuse and UConn until Flipper threw a snit.

It was supposed to be UConn but the ACC chose a commuter school because, supposedly, the football was going to be better. I mean, the ACC rejected WVU because of their academic standing but later took Louisville? Really? That can't be laid at Susan and Warde's feet. They knew we were next in line until the ACC suddenly decided to dramatically lower their academic standards to appease a couple of schools. Hey the ACC called that one right because taking Louisville probably saved the conference. However, if the ACC wants to get it really, really right, they'll offer the last spot to us. We can give the ACC what no other northeast team can: eyeballs and quality content.

 

[pj]

Great post, Noey. I really fear that Warde and Manual are content to sit back and count championships instead of being hungry and pulling out all the stops to improve our situation. "So what if we are relegated to a crap conference. Kiss the rings!" UGHHHH...... so short sighted...

Warde AND Manuel? Are we paying him twice?

 

[frankthetank]

It is not breakable in theory. When you sell your house, you can't come back 2 years later and change your mind. You sold your house. A GOR is basically the same principle.

Oh, I get it. I don't think a GOR is breakable. I'm just saying that none of the 4 power conferences that have GOR agreements want to even *try* breaking it, which is just as important as the legal underpinnings of the GOR itself.

 

[CL82]

Breakable is an interesting concept. I don't think it is "breakable" per se, but I also don't necessarily think that a breach of that agreement can't be compensated with money damages. So school X decides that they want to leave conference Y. Is anyone going to tell them they can't? Of course not. But due to the GOR they'd have to pay their TV money to conference X. Say that was worth, oh I don't know, $52M. What stops X from litigating whether that number should be reduced? Now Y might say you gave up your rights, but X could say well they were only worth Z back then so we shouldn't have to pay the new value of 5Z now and since we're paying you lump sum and up front that Z should be a reduced value = to 1/3 Z...or whatever. If a money differential between conferences is great enough, movement between conferences will still occur.

 

[frankthetank]

frank is a bit chagrined that unc and uva aren't coming to the big. that's not a bad thing. if i played in the big ten sandbox, i'd only want perfumed beauties to enter, too.

at the same time, just cuz you didn't get what you want doesn't mean you won't get what you didn't want. an invite by the big ten will be decided based on carriage negotiations scheduled to start in the next few months. if nyc cable says you want a piece of this, then you jump as high as you have to.

does that mean that the big ten is told to get carriage:

a) you the big ten pay us to get on(not an out of the world stance)
or
b)you get sport tier coverage
or
c)you get basic at $.05 or $.90

Based on uconn's proven numbers with sny, insert uconn in the above negotiations. If cable doesn't satisfactorily bite based on rutgers and legacy big ten pull in metro ny, does addition of uconn make sense.

if the big ten writes off ny metro and only goes for nj, uconn is in trouble. somehow I don't see the big ten giving up on nyc, though. and something tells me silverman selling 365 days rutgers content to nyc will be met with quite a few jaws on the floor.

My interpretation of the Big Ten's move into NYC is that it's a high risk/high reward flier, but not completely central to its plans. Don't forget that choice #1 for the Big Ten was basically the antithesis of an East Coast/NYC strategy: adding Nebraska. Jim Delany isn't dumb. He knows (like most of us do) that Rutgers doesn't "deliver" the NYC market. What he believes is that Rutgers directly located in the NYC market combined with all of the Michigan/Penn State/Ohio State/Wisconsin/Maryland/etc. alums that live there is what can get basic carriage for the BTN. To be clear, I'm skeptical of that happening and I've said that for years (to the chagrin of a lot of Rutgers fans). In fact, I'd be skeptical of that happening even if the Big Ten added *both* UConn and Syracuse on top of them. The addition of Maryland is what enabled the Big Ten to take the chance on the NYC market because, despite the tepid on-the-field/court performances of the Terps lately, they actually can deliver the DC market for BTN purposes (and that's going to be a financial boon). At the end of the day, what sells nationally football-wise is likely going to be more important to getting any real traction in the NYC market than the performance of its local teams and the success of the BTN getting basic carriage may well be tied into being bundled with fellow Fox property YES (which is obviously a channel any NYC market cable carrier needs to carry if it has any real hope of getting subscribers) as much as anything else. Rutgers is really a NYC area vessel to bring the rest of the Big Ten to that market as opposed to an indication that the Big Ten actually thinking Rutgers (or any combo with UConn and/or Syracuse) is going to bring the NYC market to the Big Ten.

Now, if you could actually prove that UConn will *definitely* deliver the NYC market for BTN purposes, then sure, you've got a big-time financial case. I don't think the data is showing that, though. Believe me - if anyone would know whether that were to be the case, it would be Fox. If it were that easy, then UConn would have been invited by either the Big Ten or ACC at this point no matter what schools like BC or Florida State would have wanted and Rutgers would have been snatched up long ago. The Big Ten thinks that they can eventually get schools like UVA, UNC, Georgia Tech, Kansas, Oklahoma or even Texas to move in 10 to 12 years, so I feel that they'll wait at this point.

 

[frankthetank]

Breakable is an interesting concept. I don't think it is "breakable" per se, but I also don't necessarily think that a breach of that agreement can't be compensated with money damages. So school X decides that they want to leave conference Y. Is anyone going to tell them the can't? Of course not. But due to the GOR they'd have to pay their TV money to conference X. Say that was worth, oh I don't know, $52M. What stops X from litigating whether that number should be reduced? Now Y might say you gave up your rights, but X could say well they were only worth Z back then so we shouldn't have to pay the new value of 5Z now and since we're paying you lump sum and up front that Z should be a reduced value = to 1/3 Z...or whatever. If a money differential between conferences is great enough, movement between conferences will still occur.

Well, yes, if you pay enough money, then you can get out of any contract. Realistically, the amount of a buyout for a GOR for a power conference would be cost prohibitive.

 

[Adios]

frankthetank...I hope you advocate our membership in your circle of acquaintances.

 

[CL82]

Well, yes, if you pay enough money, then you can get out of any contract. Realistically, the amount of a buyout for a GOR for a power conference would be cost prohibitive.

Frank once you agree that this is about money then the GOR starts to sound an awful lot like a prohibitive exit fee. Those are always more 'iron clad' in theory than in practice.

 

[Limbo Land]

I agree regarding research budget and whether or not you're an FBS school is irrelevant. It is true, though, that Miami is really the only school that does have FBS football that approaches that metric at this time. Expansion of the AAU is also glacial. Since 1999, it has added 4 total members, but also had 4 members leave, so the addition of BU was simply to get back up to the membership level that it had 14 years ago. The BU "threshold" isn't something that's easily met, either. That will take a ton of resources (frankly, much more than the athletic department spending).

Also, UConn certainly has invested a lot in football facilities. However, are UConn's facilities better than what Louisville built? Are they better than what Cincinnati has (or will have)? That's what I mean by a "We'll be fine" approach. Believe me - there are other Gang of Five schools trying to one-up each other to supplant UConn and Cincinnati as being the perceived "next in line". You don't think the Big 12 (which might actually be a possibility for UConn) won't take a hard look at UNLV if it ends up building a new football palace in the heart of an untapped large metro area that everyone loves traveling to (maybe pairing them up with BYU in expansion)? You're not competing with just Cincinnati, anymore. The Big 12 can literally go in any direction geographically, so even the plans of MWC schools could very much matter to UConn's long term prospects. There is no such thing as "good enough" in terms of facilities, academics, TV markets, etc. in conference realignment going forward.

This isn't to knock UConn. In a vacuum, the school has solid academics, elite men's and women's basketball, and a good location near Hartford and between NYC and Boston. It is the type of school that *should* be in a power conference. However, these decisions aren't being made in a vacuum. In order to get a power conference invite at this point, you have to blow away the competition, and that means beating Cincinnati, UNLV, etc. on all of the relevant metrics.

I have to say first that Frank is the only place on the web that I take stock in what is being said. His level headed approach to expansion and sports is a breath of fresh air. It is also a very sobering place to go, but I think what is best is support this team and hope that there is a spot later on. My only fear is that if these big schools break off from the NCAA, and we are on the outside looking in, that is the time to really worry. We need to compete with the Cincy, UNLV, UCF's, BYU's and Boise St. of the world and look the part in all aspects of a prospective university worthy of gaining a seat at the table. Men's facilities is a good next step. Filling seats in football is next. We are entitled to nothing and Uconn fans have to understand this. We are late to the D1 game and have so much catching up to do. Now that we are settled it is up to Coach P to get it done. It is up to the offense to work well for the first time since we moved up to D1. There will be no excuses if we can't beat the SMU's, ECU's and Houston's of the conference. They have been hungry for an opportunity and we better feel the urgency as a team to not let us get caught with our pants down. WIN WIN WIN is all that matters now and we have to beat the big boys when we play them. The bright side is that we have been competitive all 10+ year without ever having a good offense. That includes the Orlovsky years.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Time for UConn to start bribing ESPN and Conference commissioners big time, like Ivan Boesky, Mike Milkin, even skumbag Rowland. Stick $24m in the secret slush fund and see what it buys. Hell, we definately have investment bankers down in Fairfield county that can act as bagmen for 4 points.