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just to recap ....

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27 month waiting period - unenforceable
10 MM exit fee - unenforceable
5MM entrance/exit fee - being challenged
50MM exit fee - being challenged
15 year, 300MM exit fee - good as gold.

got it.

The GoR is the silliest line drawn since the French set up one called Maginot. The signers know it will not withstand scrutiny. It will be challenged, soon.

Another possible scenario is a cash-strapped state (Va., NC, oh i don't know, how about NJ) challenging their own state universities as to exactly whose revenues are being anted up at the GoR table.
 

nelsonmuntz

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The devil is in the details, but once you sell your media rights, they are sold. This isn't like an exit fee. There is no busting it.
 
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GOR is difficult to break not because of the legal interpretations but because no conference is going to want to deal with the turmoil.
 

GemParty

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Does the MD exit fee, every school was so anxious to see even matter anymore with this GOR? Or has the music stopped playing?
 
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The only way these conferences break off from the others is if they take basketball with it and sell the rights to CBS. They could do that. But it's a monumental undertaking which will forever change the face of college sports. In other words, don't expect it to happen anytime soon. And, in the end, that will be the major mover for more realignment. A consolidation.

The only other factors I can think of that might shake things up are the B12s small conference and potentially the B1G honing in on New York. If the B1G decides it doesn't have enough with Rutgers to send it over the top in NYC, and if it's close enough to get 80 cents ahead, a school like UConn might pay for itself. But you wonder about the long term of cable television.
 
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GOR is difficult to break not because of the legal interpretations but because no conference is going to want to deal with the turmoil.

Exactly. Even if it was breakable in theory, none of the Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12 or ACC want to even test it because they have a direct vested interest in ensuring that a grant of rights is enforceable. Obviously, one can never say never. However, the structural paramaters are in place to end power conference realignment today that weren't in place before. A league like the Big Ten doesn't expand just for the sake of expanding (as much as people here might be skeptical of the Rutgers move, and I'm one of them, that school has been on the radar of the Big Ten for over 20 years - it didn't pop out of nowhere). Maryland, believe it or not, was one of those schools that the Big Ten has been waiting for over a long period of time and Rutgers got a lifeline as a result of that. For further realignment to happen, another piece that the Big Ten has been waiting for needs to shake loose. Those are schools like UVA and UNC. They don't include the likes of Missouri (who the Big Ten has passed over multiple times). The only way that I see a power conference making another move over the next decade is the Big 12 trying to get back up to 12 and they simply aren't enthused with their options.
 

ConnHuskBask

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Frank, first off, always appreciate your insight when you stop by here.

As far as UConn is concerned with the B1G what is our one chance to get into the conference?

Even if it's a 1 in a million shot, knowing B1G like you do, if the stars were to align what has to happen?
 
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I believe that perceptually that the ACC’s GOR will stabilize the ACC and allow it to become one of the 4 ‘power’ conferences. It also shifts the conference target number from 20 to 16. Does it end college realignment? No.
First, both the B1G and the SEC have found out that 14 teams creates a scheduling nightmare, not to mention the ACC with an uneven 15.
Second, the XII now becomes the most unstable conference, assuming that the NCAA does not allow it to have a football championship with only 10 schools. I saw a comment on another board stating that it is doubtful that Texas agreed to a GOW without imbedding a way out of it.
Third, UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida, and others will continue to try to sell their way out of the AAC.
In turn, each of the power 4 conferences has to fill-out its plate to hit 16.
The most likely first action is the PAC trying to raid the XII again. If successful, that would free up the most valuable assets of the XII – Kansas, West Virginia, and either/or Baylor and TCU. Thus, the other 3 conferences will, if the XII is hit, fill out their own slate to 16 from these holdouts
ACC (needs 1) – Would likely pick West Virginia over Cincinnati based on pressure from football schools, i.e. Florida State and Clemson. Just too much bad blood between the ACC and UConn now. No interest in S Florida with Florida State and Miami already onboard.
B1G (needs 2) – Likely UConn and Kansas as Kansas would make Nebraska happy and back east UConn is the best remaining choice. I do not see Missouri leaving the SEC and West Virginia would be tough sell for the B1G AAU presidents. Ohio State will not let Cincinnati join under any circumstance, period.
SEC (needs 2) – Could fight for Kansas (with B1G), West Virginia (with ACC), and one of both of the Oklahoma schools (with PAC). If they only get 1 of those 4, the SEC would likely add either Baylor or TCU to get to 16. Texas is doubtful as the Horns do not like to share. South Florida has no chance due to U Florida.
PAC (needs 4) – Likely Texas and Oklahoma plus their little, politically connected brothers in Texas Tech and Oklahoma State. If they lose out on 2 of those four, the PAC may look to fill the last two slots with some combination of San Diego State, BYU, and UNLV.
 
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Frank, first off, always appreciate your insight when you stop by here.

As far as UConn is concerned with the B1G what is our one chance to get into the conference?

Even if it's a 1 in a million shot, knowing B1G like you do, if the stars were to align what has to happen?

To be honest, it's extremely low. As I've said elsewhere, it's not as if there is anything wrong with UConn itself, but rather what the Big Ten has indicated that it's looking for points elsewhere. If being an AAU school matters (unless your school's name is Notre Dame), then UConn obviously doesn't fit at this time and the AAU itself is in contraction mode as opposed to expansion mode. Lots of schools say that they have a goal of AAU membership in an attempt to create the public perception of rising academic stock, but it's a club that has been getting more and more exclusive as opposed to opening its doors. The only 2 FBS schools that have gained AAU membership in this century (and in fact, the only 2 in the past 30 years) are Georgia Tech and Texas A&M, both of whom were clearly unambiguous engineering and science research powerhouses and probably should have been invited decades ago. (FWIW, the only FBS school that's really in striking distance of gaining AAU membership at this point is Miami based on the metrics that they used to push Nebraska out and scared off Syracuse, and that's not even a slam dunk case.) If being an AAU school doesn't ultimately matter, then the Big Ten might be looking at bigger markets and/or more powerful football brand names like Florida State, Miami and/or Oklahoma.

I think it will take time for UConn to become a truly viable Big Ten candidate... and I mean that in a literal sense. There literally has to be a lengthy passage of time for UConn to establish itself historically as an FBS program. This is something that I underestimated in UConn's prospects for the ACC, as well (as I was fairly certain that UConn was going to be ahead of Louisville in the pecking order when a spot initially opened up there). Rutgers might have a horrible football history, but it's a very *long* history (arguably the very longest one if you believe their boosters), and in a league where old money is deemed to be more important than any other conference, it counts for a lot. The BTN actually shows old Nebraska and Penn State football games from the 1970s and 1980s - meaning games prior to them even becoming Big Ten members. Tradition and history is inherently a *massive* part of the Big Ten brand and any new addition needs to integrate into that brand seamlessly. Now, I know that UConn has played football for a very long time, but in the eyes of the power conferences, its football history started when it made the full move up to FBS in 2002, so they are perceived as "new money" by the rest of the country in a way that all of you as UConn fans/alums probably don't see yourselves as.

Anyway, besides simply the passage of time, if there are long-term goals for UConn to make itself attractive to the Big Ten (or ACC) down the road, the critical items are:

(1) Improve graduate research academics to as close to AAU metrics as possible - As of now, Miami has the title of "best FBS research school that's not in the AAU". UConn has to at least be on par with Miami to force the academic issue. Otherwise, UConn gets lumped in with Florida State and Oklahoma in terms of academics (I know that's not true at all an undergrad level with UConn being ranked much higher, but it's not really that far apart at the graduate research level), and in that type of comparison, the elite football brand names will always win out. It wasn't an accident that Nebraska got chosen by the Big Ten first. Now, that's easier said than done, of course. There are lots of schools trying to do the same thing.

(2) Demonstrate that UConn is more *consistently* popular than Rutgers and Syracuse in the NYC market for *football* - Men's basketball and women's basketball are nice, but they're not going to carry much weight here. Even the Big Ten's targeting of UNC was as much about getting into top notch football recruiting territories and long-term demographics as it is about UNC's basketball brand. The state of Connecticut itself is a large disadvantage in terms of football recruiting compared to the other Big Ten options, so it needs to compensate that by becoming the top *football* brand in the NYC market. That's likely going to take a lot of winning big and it's going to take consistency (not just a one or two season run) to do that. Again, that's easier said than done.

(3) Act like a top dog in public but make moves like an underdog in private - If there's one thing that UConn should learn from the past 3 years of conference realignment, don't ever, ever, EVER assume that you're next in line for anything. West Virginia didn't do that with the Big 12 and Louisville didn't do that with the ACC. Whatever you might think of those schools, they took absolutely no chances in the conference realignment game. What are you actually doing better than Cincinnati if it comes down to you and them for 1 spot in a power conference? What are you doing better than schools like USF, UCF, Houston and SMU that are in rich football recruiting markets? In what areas are those schools actually ahead of you and how do you compensate for that? Don't assume that you're ahead of them in line in anything. Louisville *forced* the issue with how they created top notch facilities and invested SEC/Big Ten-level funds into football despite being saddled with a terrible Big East TV contract. Has UConn really forced the issue or did it just assume that its location in New England and having academics that are better then most would sell itself? Even Rutgers, who had the ultimate location advantage being directly in the NYC market, had to bet the farm in upgrading football facilities to be taken seriously. The worst attitude to have in conference realignment is, "We'll be fine." Recognize that other schools might very well be offering something more enticing (whether it's TV market, location, demographics, academics, etc.) and figure out how to either beat them on the factors that can be changed (generally on-the-field) and minimize the disadvantages on things that can't be changed (such as geography). This is a zero sum game. There are schools that are in strong football hotbeds that are continuously pouring money into athletics and will be UConn's competition when the next wave of conference realignment comes to fruition, so UConn has to be prepared for that.

Those are just the things off of the top of my head. I wish that it would be better news for UConn and that a solution comes quick for you guys (since I do think that your athletic department has done a good job over the past 15 years overall), but the Big Ten isn't going to expand just for the sake of expanding. UConn has to *force* the issue and make itself into an asset that conferences simply can't pass over.
 

zls44

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Okay I'm taking my lunch hour to read all this...
 

ConnHuskBask

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Frank - thanks for the input.

I truly believe UConn was a victim of circumstance that have been talked about ad nauseam here.

Simply put if BC doesn't block us initially we are in and/or the UConn Louisville decision was made two seasons ago when we were coming off a BCS bid and National Title in hoops.

In addition because of that Fiesta Bowl the media took on an agenda with our perceived lack of attendance and how we didn't deserve to be there. Part of me truly believes we may have beenbetter off not winning the conference that season as messed up as that sounds.

In any event, we have a long uphill battle against us, we just to keep moving forward. It's out only option.
 

zls44

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I like Frank! It was just a lot to go through.
 
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Frank - thanks for the input.

I truly believe UConn was a victim of circumstance that have been talked about ad nauseam here.

Simply put if BC doesn't block us initially we are in and/or the UConn Louisville decision was made two seasons ago when we were coming off a BCS bid and National Title in hoops.

In addition because of that Fiesta Bowl the media took on an agenda with our perceived lack of attendance and how we didn't deserve to be there. Part of me truly believes we may have beenbetter off not winning the conference that season as messed up as that sounds.

In any event, we have a long uphill battle against us, we just to keep moving forward. It's out only option.

Yes, circumstances certainly played a role. 2 years ago, academics would have been much more of a factor for the ACC (or else it wouldn't have passed up on taking West Virginia). The perception (whether it was correct or not) with the ACC's replacement in Maryland was that it had to be a "football move" no matter what, so Louisville was the perceived better fit.

Whether BC blocked UConn or not is kind of a neither here nor there issue. I'd actually expect them to try to block UConn in the same way that Florida would block FSU from the SEC or Ohio State would block Cincinnati from the Big Ten. It sucks for the school getting blocked, but it's standard operating procedure and BC is protecting what it believes to be its territory (and there's nothing unusual about that whether we're talking about conference realignment or the general business world). The thing is that the only way that attempt to block is successful is if the other members agree from a financial standpoint. If one school is far any beyond a better candidate in terms of money, then it's tough for a current member to block such school. BC isn't going to get very far if it says that it should be the only Catholic school in the ACC and tries to block Notre Dame. Now, if you have two relatively equal candidates and there are strong objections to one of them, though, then that's where a "block" comes more into play. Once again, this is where forcing the issue is critical. UConn has to show that it brings so much to the table that it doesn't matter what BC tries to say (or maybe more importantly, what Florida State tries to say).
 
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To be honest, it's extremely low. As I've said elsewhere, it's not as if there is anything wrong with UConn itself, but rather what the Big Ten has indicated that it's looking for points elsewhere. If being an AAU school matters (unless your school's name is Notre Dame), then UConn obviously doesn't fit at this time and the AAU itself is in contraction mode as opposed to expansion mode. Lots of schools say that they have a goal of AAU membership in an attempt to create the public perception of rising academic stock, but it's a club that has been getting more and more exclusive as opposed to opening its doors. The only 2 FBS schools that have gained AAU membership in this century (and in fact, the only 2 in the past 30 years) are Georgia Tech and Texas A&M, both of whom were clearly unambiguous engineering and science research powerhouses and probably should have been invited decades ago. (FWIW, the only FBS school that's really in striking distance of gaining AAU membership at this point is Miami based on the metrics that they used to push Nebraska out and scared off Syracuse, and that's not even a slam dunk case.) If being an AAU school doesn't ultimately matter, then the Big Ten might be looking at bigger markets and/or more powerful football brand names like Florida State, Miami and/or Oklahoma.

The AAU is expanding again. Frankly, the AAU takes little heed of whether you're a FBS school or not. I'm sure the members don't care. Certainly Michigan and Wisky's Pres.s didn't care when they ousted Nebraska. So, when a school goes up for membership, its status in football simply doesn't matter. The AAU just expanded in the last few months with Boston University. As always, the question is research budget. The way to judge whether a school is fit for the AAU is to look at Boston U.'s budget and then go from there. That's the threshold for admittance.

As for football facilities,I think UConn has invested a ton of money and they have excellent facilities.
 
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Frank: I invite you to read the thread titled "Denuo Mox". All we need to do is be patient and Uconn will have a home soon. Either that or someone is being a real .
 

UCFBfan

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Love the input from Frank but also feel like we are a lost cause after reading all that. Build football tradition? In the CR game, time is not a luxury we have. A few more years naking peanuts and we might as well fold up shop (wow I can't believe I said that). I've never been so diwn as I am right now reading that. I know a lot of it is fact based which is why it sucks even more. I liked my false hope!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
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I don't know what Frank does for a living ... but if I'm Warde and Susan maybe I make him an offer and create a position for him.

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The AAU is expanding again. Frankly, the AAU takes little heed of whether you're a FBS school or not. I'm sure the members don't care. Certainly Michigan and Wisky's Pres.s didn't care when they ousted Nebraska. So, when a school goes up for membership, its status in football simply doesn't matter. The AAU just expanded in the last few months with Boston University. As always, the question is research budget. The way to judge whether a school is fit for the AAU is to look at Boston U.'s budget and then go from there. That's the threshold for admittance.

As for football facilities,I think UConn has invested a ton of money and they have excellent facilities.

I agree regarding research budget and whether or not you're an FBS school is irrelevant. It is true, though, that Miami is really the only school that does have FBS football that approaches that metric at this time. Expansion of the AAU is also glacial. Since 1999, it has added 4 total members, but also had 4 members leave, so the addition of BU was simply to get back up to the membership level that it had 14 years ago. The BU "threshold" isn't something that's easily met, either. That will take a ton of resources (frankly, much more than the athletic department spending).

Also, UConn certainly has invested a lot in football facilities. However, are UConn's facilities better than what Louisville built? Are they better than what Cincinnati has (or will have)? That's what I mean by a "We'll be fine" approach. Believe me - there are other Gang of Five schools trying to one-up each other to supplant UConn and Cincinnati as being the perceived "next in line". You don't think the Big 12 (which might actually be a possibility for UConn) won't take a hard look at UNLV if it ends up building a new football palace in the heart of an untapped large metro area that everyone loves traveling to (maybe pairing them up with BYU in expansion)? You're not competing with just Cincinnati, anymore. The Big 12 can literally go in any direction geographically, so even the plans of MWC schools could very much matter to UConn's long term prospects. There is no such thing as "good enough" in terms of facilities, academics, TV markets, etc. in conference realignment going forward.

This isn't to knock UConn. In a vacuum, the school has solid academics, elite men's and women's basketball, and a good location near Hartford and between NYC and Boston. It is the type of school that *should* be in a power conference. However, these decisions aren't being made in a vacuum. In order to get a power conference invite at this point, you have to blow away the competition, and that means beating Cincinnati, UNLV, etc. on all of the relevant metrics.
 
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Is it possible for someone to send all of Frank's posts to Susan and Warde? Please.
 
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Also, UConn certainly has invested a lot in football facilities. However, are UConn's facilities better than what Louisville built? Are they better than what Cincinnati has (or will have)?

As for training facilities, student center, indoor field, Yes and Yes. They were rated tops not only in the BE but among the very best in the country. I know money raised and spent on this expenditure means little given the cost differentials around the nation, but the money sunk into UConn's facilities dwarfs those at other places. On the other hand, the new football stadium's location in E. Hartford and its size is a problem when compared to Papa John's, but it certainly has more possibilities than Cincy's (though Cincy's is on campus).
 
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Yeah, Cincinnati's small stadium (despite being on-campus) is going to be a knock against them and they don't really have any space to do anything about it. That's why I point out UNLV's plans at least with respect to further Big 12 expansion - that's a fast-growing market and, if they actually get the stadium that they have sketched out in plans, they can vault to the top of the expansion list pretty quickly. Houston is getting a brand-new on-campus stadium, too. I'm just saying that the bar keeps getting raised.
 
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Yeah, Cincinnati's small stadium (despite being on-campus) is going to be a knock against them and they don't really have any space to do anything about it. That's why I point out UNLV's plans at least with respect to further Big 12 expansion - that's a fast-growing market and, if they actually get the stadium that they have sketched out in plans, they can vault to the top of the expansion list pretty quickly. Houston is getting a brand-new on-campus stadium, too. I'm just saying that the bar keeps getting raised.
Houston's stadium is the same size as Rentschler Field, 40,000. It is potentially expandable to 60,000 but ours is in the 55,000 range. I suspect that if it came down to expansion, we're closer than they are given theirs won't open for another year. We apparently are expanding with temporary seating for Michigan. So we'll see what that's about.
 

HuskyHawk

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Frank, thanks for all these posts. I continue to believe that the lack of history works strongly against UConn. It creates a mental barrier that we need to actively work to overcome. Too often I see people here focus on recent W-L records, or bowl appearances. My L-School alma mater, KU, has a dreadful football team now. But it produced Gayle Sayers, Nolan Cromwell, Dana Stubblefield (during my time) and has won Orange Bowls, even recently. One Gayle Sayers running in black and white is worth much more than 11 years of mostly decent records for a young FBS program and a few bowl games.

We've done some of the real work, with a stadium nicer and larger than Cinci's, and football facilities that are truly top of the line. New hoops facility going in as well. Basketball championships are a differentiator in my book, even if football is primary. The TV market is under-rated and is larger than it seems, due to Fairfield county's inclusion in the NY DMA. The Academics are good and research is growing dramatically. So I don't see the administration resting and assuming anything. They are indeed doing the right things. I am not sure they are waging the information war necessary to overcome the lack of football history. Our total athletic department budget (around $62M) is similar to Missouri, Cal, UCLA and others and dwarves the budget at most other schools not in a big 5 conference, including Cinci.

But do most Big Ten people know this? I don't think so. My private fear is that the school, which has made the investments, will lose patience while the old boys network decides if we can join the club. So I would hope, that privately, there is encouragement to stay the course from people like Delany.
 
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