Just The Facts Ma'am | The Boneyard

Just The Facts Ma'am

Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
940
Reaction Score
6,535
DavidinNaples started a thread yesterday by giving some player statistics. Some of the comments went down the path of facts, in this case statistics, vs opinion. Which led me to think on how important statistics are in evaluating a player or team.

Team/player statistics generally fall into the category of box score stats or analytics such as efficiency ratings. Both are mathematical and as such “facts”. But as with all facts, they have little meaning without context. Some facts, in a given context, have more meaning than others. Further, the meaning or importance or relevance of facts are in the eye of the beholder and very much subjective ie: facts are the raw material for opinions. The stat book will never be the decider of who is better, LeBron or MJ.

I’ll give a couple of examples of where stats alone can be less than informing:

Three point shooting percentages. DiN’s stats (the facts) show Kyla to be the best three point shooter for Uconn by percentage made. So is she the best three pointer shooter on the team? Say Uconn is down 3, has the ball and there are 20 seconds left in the play. Does Geno draw up a play for Kyla to get the final shot? I don’t think so. Deciding who the best three point shooter is has to take into account how quickly a player can square up and shoot even if well guarded, how well they can come off a screen and find space, how confident they are in taking the shot, even on an off shooting night. Crystal and Meg come to mind. Kyla can make threes if she has plenty of time and space, which is important to keep the D honest, but making open shots isn’t the most important measure of a good shooter.

Rebounds. This is one area where the statistics (number of rebounds) don’t give much insight on who is a good rebounder. For a starter, a lot of total rebounds are shots that come off the rim and end up the hands of a player who happens to be in the right place at the right time. It is a rebound on the stat sheet but doesn’t say anything about how good a rebounder one is. There is no official stat for skill rebounds that are a result of good positioning and boxing out, timing the jump (and how much air you can get under your shoes), seeing while a shot is in the air where the rebound will go if it is a miss and getting to that spot. Grit and desire. Tall players tend to be closer to the basket and get more rebounds, but tall doesn’t always translate to being technically a good rebounder. I think (pesky opinion) Meg, Anna and Griff are the best Uconn skill rebounders. Griff will be the best soon.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,648
Reaction Score
25,842
When Gabby Williams played I realized that while she elevated exceptionally well the reason she was such a good rebounder (and second chance scorer) was that she got to the ball first. It's quick elevation that gets the ball. Gabby would come down with an offensive board and go back up while everyone else was still coming down. I see the same thing in Griffin and also a degree of that in C Williams this year. Another factor that is unmeasured statistically is boxing out. A player may not get many rebounds but if they are preventing the best rebounder on the other team from getting the ball they are almost as important as their team mate who does get it. I used to notice that with Dolson. Many times she was the 2nd or third best rebounder statistically but if you watched the games she was great at boxing out while her team mates grabbed the boards.
 

MilfordHusky

Voice of Reason
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
36,916
Reaction Score
124,170
When Gabby Williams played I realized that while she elevated exceptionally well the reason she was such a good rebounder (and second chance scorer) was that she got to the ball first. It's quick elevation that gets the ball. Gabby would come down with an offensive board and go back up while everyone else was still coming down. I see the same thing in Griffin and also a degree of that in C Williams this year. Another factor that is unmeasured statistically is boxing out. A player may not get many rebounds but if they are preventing the best rebounder on the other team from getting the ball they are almost as important as their team mate who does get it. I used to notice that with Dolson. Many times she was the 2nd or third best rebounder statistically but if you watched the games she was great at boxing out while her team mates grabbed the boards.
You are going to love Mir McLean. She explodes off the floor, just like Gabby.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,648
Reaction Score
25,842
You are going to love Mir McLean. She explodes off the floor, just like Gabby.

I think so. I haven't seen her play but everything I read says that. I try to stay focused on this year but the thought of seeing McLean, Griffin, Edwards, (Fudd?) and Bueckers on the floor together (maybe not for 2 years) is like a kid waiting for Christmas.
 

Bigboote

That's big-boo-TAY
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
6,794
Reaction Score
34,174
Rebounds. This is one area where the statistics (number of rebounds) don’t give much insight on who is a good rebounder. For a starter, a lot of total rebounds are shots that come off the rim and end up the hands of a player who happens to be in the right place at the right time. It is a rebound on the stat sheet but doesn’t say anything about how good a rebounder one is. There is no official stat for skill rebounds that are a result of good positioning and boxing out, timing the jump (and how much air you can get under your shoes), seeing while a shot is in the air where the rebound will go if it is a miss and getting to that spot. Grit and desire. Tall players tend to be closer to the basket and get more rebounds, but tall doesn’t always translate to being technically a good rebounder. I think (pesky opinion) Meg, Anna and Griff are the best Uconn skill rebounders. Griff will be the best soon.

Of course, no one rebound says how good a rebounder is. In fact, ONE of anything isn't statistical. Statistics was developed as a way to reduce a large amount of data into a few descriptive quantities. So even the "statistics" from one game aren't in the traditional sense statistics.

But if someone over the course of a season consistently out-rebounds the other players, I'd say that's a good indication that that player IS a good rebounder. You don't have consistently good rebounding stats by luck. Gabby Williams, Napheesa Collier, Aubrey Griffin all have a nose for the ball. Same thing is true of Sabrina Ionescu and Mikayla Pivec.
 

SVCBeercats

Meglepetés Előadó
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
4,915
Reaction Score
29,344
DavidinNaples started a thread yesterday by giving some player statistics. Some of the comments went down the path of facts, in this case statistics, vs opinion. Which led me to think on how important statistics are in evaluating a player or team.
So you used opinions to disprove statistics. Interesting. But ... :p:D
 

Zorro

Nuestro Zorro Amigo
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
17,920
Reaction Score
15,759
Not to disprove them, simply to cast some doubt on their overwhelming significance.
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
1,244
Reaction Score
5,240
and one made some good comments on the relevance of statistics. One of my favorite memories of a Syracuse game a long time ago was listening to one of the announcers bemoaning how the Orange only got 1 offensive rebound during a half. They actually only missed 2 shots that quarter!!!
 

Online statistics

Members online
39
Guests online
749
Total visitors
788

Forum statistics

Threads
157,352
Messages
4,096,108
Members
9,984
Latest member
stanfordnyc


Top Bottom