Jokic

[superjohn]

I can't find the NBA thread. Dude just had 35 pts, 22 rebounds, 17 assists, and 1 turnover in 37 minutes on 75% true shooting.

It's absurd how good this guy is.

 

[Huskyforlife]

He’s gonna be the best center of all time. It won’t sit well with certain people.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

He’s gonna be the best center of all time. It won’t sit well with certain people.

I think he’s gonna need to get a couple more championships to pass Kareem. Which he definitely can, just think that’s the benchmark.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I think he’s gonna need to get a couple more championships to pass Kareem. Which he definitely can, just think that’s the benchmark.

Kareem won one Championship without Magic. Not really a fair comparison unless Jokic has a similarly talented sidekick.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Kareem won one Championship without Magic. Not really a fair comparison unless Jokic has a similarly talented sidekick.

A championship is a championship. That’s a silly thing to get into.

 

[superjohn]

A championship is a championship. That’s a silly thing to get into.

Not saying he's the best center ever or will go down as the best but he's clearly been the best player in the NBA for 5 straight seasons. Winning is always a part of legacy but the guy has never played with an all-star his entire career and he played with some of the worst backcourts I've ever seen in the NBA.

 

[nwhoopfan]

A championship is a championship. That’s a silly thing to get into.

So Wennington, Longley and Cartwright must be among the all time greats since they all 3 peated with the Bulls, right?

 

[3rdbass]

He’s gonna be the best center of all time. It won’t sit well with certain people.

To me he is becoming the best basketball player in time. Of course he needs to win more championships to earn taht crown.

 

[3rdbass]

Not saying he's the best center ever or will go down as the best but he's clearly been the best player in the NBA for 5 straight seasons. Winning is always a part of legacy but the guy has never played with an all-star his entire career and he played with some of the worst backcourts I've ever seen in the NBA.

Really worst backcourts ever with Murray, Westbrook? All his teams have had Murray who a really good guard so knd of invalidates your point. While Kentavious Caldwell-Pope wasn't a great offensive player he could hit the 3 and play great D.

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[CardiacAndre7]

Really worst backcourts ever with Murray, Westbrook? All his teams have had Murray who a really good guard so knd of invalidates your point. While Kentavious Caldwell-Pope wasn't a great offensive player he could hit the 3 and play great D.

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Yeah Murray has been a borderline All-Star for a while. There are certainly better back courts but there have been plenty worse too lol.

 

[Husky68]

Kareem won one Championship without Magic. Not really a fair comparison unless Jokic has a similarly talented sidekick.

Think the championship without Magic also had a pretty good sidekick.

 

[superjohn]

Really worst backcourts ever with Murray, Westbrook? All his teams have had Murray who a really good guard so knd of invalidates your point. While Kentavious Caldwell-Pope wasn't a great offensive player he could hit the 3 and play great D.

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His starting backcourt his first MVP season was Facundo Campazzo and Austin Rivers with Monte Morris and Markus Howard off the bench. His next MVP season it was Monte Morris and Will Barton with Austin Rivers, Bones Hyland, Bryn Forbes and Facundo Campazzo off the bench.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

So Wennington, Longley and Cartwright must be among the all time greats since they all 3 peated with the Bulls, right?

This is not a good faith argument. We’re comparing all time greats in accolades. Don’t try to gaslight.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

His starting backcourt his first MVP season was Facundo Campazzo and Austin Rivers with Monte Morris and Markus Howard off the bench. His next MVP season it was Monte Morris and Will Barton with Austin Rivers, Bones Hyland, Bryn Forbes and Facundo Campazzo off the bench.

Murray played over half his first MVP season, and was great I may add. No point in leaving that out.

 

[superjohn]

Murray played over half his first MVP season, and was great I may add. No point in leaving that out.

We're talking about winning championships because you brought it up. He didn't have Murray for either of those playoffs and Porter Jr. who isn't all that good but was their third best player was also out one of those playoffs.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

We're talking about winning championships because you brought it up. He didn't have Murray for either of those playoffs and Porter Jr. who isn't all that good but was their third best player was also out one of those playoffs.

I brought up Championships in respect to passing Kareem. I think that’s more than a fair argument. Jokic has won 1. I think he wins more, but your point that his team wasn’t good enough for him to win more is silly, that has happened with all the stars in NBA history at certain points. He’ll build his legacy and may eventually pass Kareem. He’s head and shoulders the best offensive big in history at his peak, and possibly the best offensive player overall, peak wise.

 

[superjohn]

I brought up Championships in respect to passing Kareem. I think that’s more than a fair argument. Jokic has won 1. I think he wins more, but your point that his team wasn’t good enough for him to win more is silly, that has happened with all the stars in NBA history at certain points. He’ll build his legacy and may eventually pass Kareem. He’s head and shoulders the best offensive big in history at his peak, and possibly the best offensive player overall, peak wise.

Not at all a good faith argument. Who are the other all-time greats who won championships without ever playing with an all-star in their career? Who are the other all-time greats who won it all playing with those trash rosters in the playoffs?

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Not at all a good faith argument. Who are the other all-time greats who won championships without ever playing with an all-star in their career? Who are the other all-time greats who won it all playing with those trash rosters in the playoffs?

Trash roster? When they won it all 2 years ago? Come on now.

Hakeem in 94
Giannis in 21.
Dirk.

Guys with very comparable rosters to when the Nuggets won it.

And FYI, I was saying all timers have have bad rosters that haven’t won championships, just like Jokic did when Murray was hurt. Jokic hasn’t dragged a bad team to a championship, ‘22 was a very good team overall.

 

[superjohn]

Trash roster? When they won it all 2 years ago? Come on now.

Hakeem in 94
Giannis in 21.
Dirk.

Guys with very comparable rosters to when the Nuggets won it.

And FYI, I was saying all timers have have bad rosters that haven’t won championships, just like Jokic did when Murray was hurt. Jokic hasn’t dragged a bad team to a championship, ‘22 was a very good team overall.

Nobody has dragged a bad team to a championship. The point is Jokic hasn't won more because he had some luck and was stuck with some playoff rosters in 2 of his 3 MVP years. Middleton and Holiday were all-stars before. Kidd had a bunch of all-star appearances before joining Dirk as did Marion. Drexler had a bunch of all-star appearances, Otis Thorpe had an all-star appearance.

With Westbrook it's the first time Jokic will have a crack at it with an all-star.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Nobody had dragged a bad team to a championship. The point is Jokic hasn't won more because he had some luck and was stuck with some playoff rosters in 2 of his 3 MVP years. Middleton and Holiday were all-stars before. Kidd had a bunch of all-star appearances before joining Dirk as did Marion. Drexler had a bunch of all-star appearances, Otis Thorpe had an all-star appearance.

With Westbrook it's the first time Jokic will have a crack at it with an all-star.

Drexler wasn’t on the first Rockets team but nevertheless.

Jordan and LeBron had pretty below average rosters for the first like 5/6 years of their careers. They ended up dragging their teams to places they probably weren’t worthy, just as Jokic did. He’ll get more accolades. He’s just not the best center every yet, he may become it!

 

[Husky25]

He’s gonna be the best center of all time. It won’t sit well with certain people.

Granted, 17 assists is impressive, particularly with the other stats, but 35 and 22 in 37 minutes was a down night for Wilt Chamberlain during his first ten seasons and while playing nearly every minute of every game.

 

[Waquoit]

Granted, 17 assists is impressive, particularly with the other stats, but 35 and 22 in 37 minutes was a down night for Wilt Chamberlain during his first ten seasons and while playing nearly every minute of every game.

Rebound totals are less impressive from a time when nobody could shoot. Jokic has less around him than other superstars had.

 

[nwhoopfan]

This is not a good faith argument. We’re comparing all time greats in accolades. Don’t try to gaslight.

It was obviously ridiculous, not meant to be taken seriously. But it's also ridiculous to pretend that who a player's teammates are doesn't matter. Kareem played for around a decade not only w/ Magic, but also Worthy, another Hall of Famer. How many of the great big men in NBA history would've piled up a bunch of Championships if they'd played for that length of time alongside 2 Hall of Famers? The answer is most of them.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It was obviously ridiculous, not meant to be taken seriously. But it's also ridiculous to pretend that who a player's teammates are doesn't matter. Kareem played for around a decade not only w/ Magic, but also Worthy, another Hall of Famer. How many of the great big men in NBA history would've piled up a bunch of Championships if they'd played for that length of time alongside 2 Hall of Famers? The answer is most of them.

Not pretending it doesn’t lol. Just stating the obvious. Kareem has 6 rings along with countless other accolades. Jokic is amazing but mid-career. Any argument that he is better than Kareem is ridiculous at this point.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Not pretending it doesn’t lol. Just stating the obvious. Kareem has 6 rings along with countless other accolades. Jokic is amazing but mid-career. Any argument that he is better than Kareem is ridiculous at this point.

I'll concede that. Kareem did have an amazing career and I'm not trying to say otherwise, and he was of course a big part of the Lakers' dominance. But my goodness those teams were stacked with talent.