John A.: Atlanta Dream happy with Tiff

[MilfordHusky]

I'd say that Kelly matches Kalana's current (post-injury) athleticism and has a little more size and strength. Kelly was a multi-sport star and national class athlete as a high schooler. She is also a winner.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Rodman is one of the best rebounders in the history of the game. He led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years. His career average of 13.1 rebounds per game is better than Dwight Howard, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, etc. He was not just a lock-down defender; he was the best rebounder in the NBA looking back at the last 40 years.

Artest/MWP, for all of his mental issues and off-court (and on-court) shenanigans, is a supreme athlete (with tremendous upper body strength) who was a scorer before he went to the Lakers (he averaged over 18 points per game for the previous seven seasons before joining the Lakers).

Solely being a defender without bringing a professional level skillset in another area is not usually enough. And with the roster size limited to 11 players, there is no room for someone to only be a defender, "irrespective of their offensive contributions."

Regarding your statement that "she can be an effective shooter if she doesn't have to play 35 minutes at the 4 against much bigger players," last year, when she was the de factor four, was actually Kelly's best year as far as shooting percentages (43.8 percent from the floor, 31.5 percent from three).

Nevertheless, teams do keep certain players on the roster who are only "shooters" who really cannot do much of anything else, as far as a professional skillset is concerned (Laurie Koehn and Erin Thorn come to mind, though Thorn did learn to diversify her game at some ponit with the Liberty). So there is always a chance.

Your observations about Rodman and Artest are accurate. My comparison to Kelly isn't capricious, I think she has that kind of potential. Her defense against Brittany Griner and a number of other players last year was eye opening. I think she combines Artest's strength...scaled to the women's game, of course...with Rodman's persistence and mental toughness.

Is she there yet...of course not...we're prognosticating. But I think she has the physical and mental tools to have a similar impact in the WNBA. I'm looking forward to it, and hope the Dream snag her.

You are not alone in disagreeing with me about the value of the lock-down defender, sans offensive skills. We will disagree on that. The truth is, though, that Kelly is probably capable of being an excellent offensive producer. She's a strong offensive rebounder and skilled at moving without the ball. The Brazilian men's team showed last night how movement without the ball can offset superior athletic ability.

This is probably moot, because I think Kelly will develop a number of shots she can reliably make if teams try to play off her. She did better this year because she saw how Notre Dame took advantage of her the year prior. I think without the need to play against much bigger players, she'll have an easier time with her shooting touch. Remember, the "worm" had no touch around the basket when he was bringing down 20 boards a night. You can only do so much when you can't rebound by just reaching up.

Time will tell...but I'll bet you a latte right now she gets drafted next year and makes a WNBA roster.

 

[Scotter]

Kelly Faris is an ELITE athlete. This is something that people tend to miss or overlook with her. There are very few people that can run or out jump her. When she was a freshman with Maya, Tina, Kalana, and Tiffany on the team Geno still called Kelly his best pure athlete. She has enough lateral quickness to keep the best point guards in WCBB in front of her and the strength to defend college post players. Her athleticism is the biggest reason she can make a WNBA team.

Kelly's combination of elite athleticism, discipline, and intelligence will allow her to defend 3 positions on the WNBA level. Offensively she has a WNBA level skill and that is her passing ability. That doesn't translate as well as Kalana Greene's elite finishing ability. I saw Kalana sticking as a 5th scorer in a starting lineup because she could maximize limited offensive opportunities with her efficiency, but it is an asset for Kalana.

The scenario you describe is certainly possible, but I believe she has a shot to stick in the league for years, and be a rotation player with the right team because of her versatility. You can play her with any combination of two perimeter players because she can defend all three positions effectively and she can play all three offensive positions competently. With an 11 player roster that versatility has value. She would actually be a good fit in Phoenix if they weren't so set on continuing to employ Andrea Riley types.

I do not see Kelly having a skillset on par with the level of athleticism and speed that Price and Greene possess. I freely admit I may be wrong, as you (the general "you") see her play more times than I have (and probably both in person and on television). I see her getting drafted and maybe making a roster for one year, but I do not see her as a having that long of a WNBA career. She might be best going to a team with serious salary cap issues who can only take on a player on the rookie salary scale who was drafted in the second round (the WNBA has a hard salary cap, unlike the NBA).

 

[alexrgct]

What Kelly brings:

1. Terrific passing. She led the team in assists last year on top of the hockey assists factor.
2. Extremely durable. She's in tremendous physical shape and never seems to get hurt (knock on wood).
3. Defensive prowess. She is a relentless on-ball and help defender with exceptional lower body strength. At the college level, I have seen her knock post players out of low block position due to this attribute.
4. Excellent rebounder for her size.
5. Very good at feeding cutters or cutting herself.
6. She just "gets it". She's about as coachable a player as you'll find. If you've got 11 roster spots, you don't want to have to spend a lot of time worrying about whether one of your role players is putting in the time necessary to be the best player they can be. And with Kelly, that's the last thing you have to think about.

I do agree that Artest and Rodman are not good comparisons insomuch as Artest was a skilled offensive player in his heyday and Rodman was an historically great rebounder. I'd suggest Bruce Bowen might be a better analogy.

Obviously, if Kelly can show more ability to score when needed (which she showed flashes of doing at the end of last season), it will help her professional stock immensely. But she has a lot of positive qualities as is. Geno has said, and I quote, "There are, what, 335 Division 1 teams, and every single one of them would be better with Kelly Faris." I realize that the WNBA is a different level with only 132 roster spots, but I do believe she would make every team better as a pro.

 

[Icebear]

Price is not the starting point guard; Lindsey Harding is.

Price is also one of the best athletes in the WNBA; her level of athleticism and speed are off the charts. She has used this to become one of the best rebounding guards in the WNBA and to be a great finisher at the rim. But to describe her as a defender and hustle player does not take into account her world-class athleticism.

As for Kalana Greene, she is another superior athlete, who fits in nicely with Charles, Jones, and Lawson, who are the primary scorers. But again, she is not merely a defender or a player who hustles; she has superior athleticism which she is able to use to carve out a spot for herself.

I do not see Kelly having a skillset on par with the level of athleticism and speed that Price and Greene possess. I freely admit I may be wrong, as you (the general "you") see her play more times than I have (and probably both in person and on television). I see her getting drafted and maybe making a roster for one year, but I do not see her as a having that long of a WNBA career. She might be best going to a team with serious salary cap issues who can only take on a player on the rookie salary scale who was drafted in the second round (the WNBA has a hard salary cap, unlike the NBA).

Actually, Cam, Kelly's SPARQ scores are emendous.

 

[VAMike23]

As Scotter pointed out, Geno has been saying that Kelly is the team's best pure athlete for awhile now. If she were that much of an offensive liability then she would fall into the late 2nd or 3rd round. But even in the 'downside' scenario she is not that much of an offensive liability because she can both score and assist in transition, consistently, even against top competition. You simply have got to be able to do that in the W.

The 'upside' scenario for her is a team that has a motion offense and/or likes to really run. OTOH, some teams rely more on having their stars create offense on their own - probably not such a good fit for Kelly there.

She can make an 11-player roster, IMO, as long as she continues to sharpen up her offensive toolkit. She is a great rebounding guard/wing but in the W she is not going to be playing (by design) down low very much, so she will need to keep honing her midrange game and get more consistent with a few good scoring moves. She can do that.

 

[Scotter]

Bruce Bown isn't really right. She's not that limited. Nate McMillan is probably a better comparison for capturing what she is, along with some other big defensive guards that weren't scorers, but could defend 3 positions and had the handles and passing ability to play point.

I do agree that Artest and Rodman are not good comparisons insomuch as Artest was a skilled offensive player in his heyday and Rodman was an historically great rebounder. I'd suggest Bruce Bowen might be a better analogy.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Actually, Cam, Kelly's SPARQ scores are emendous.

Emendous? Constantly being changed? Is there forgery?

 

[OneTrickPony]

Rodman is one of the best rebounders in the history of the game. He led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years. His career average of 13.1 rebounds per game is better than Dwight Howard, Charles Barkley, Tim Duncan, etc. He was not just a lock-down defender; he was the best rebounder in the NBA looking back at the last 40 years.

Artest/MWP, for all of his mental issues and off-court (and on-court) shenanigans, is a supreme athlete (with tremendous upper body strength) who was a scorer before he went to the Lakers (he averaged over 18 points per game for the previous seven seasons before joining the Lakers).

Solely being a defender without bringing a professional level skillset in another area is not usually enough. And with the roster size limited to 11 players, there is no room for someone to only be a defender, "irrespective of their offensive contributions."

Regarding your statement that "she can be an effective shooter if she doesn't have to play 35 minutes at the 4 against much bigger players," last year, when she was the de factor four, was actually Kelly's best year as far as shooting percentages (43.8 percent from the floor, 31.5 percent from three).

Nevertheless, teams do keep certain players on the roster who are only "shooters" who really cannot do much of anything else, as far as a professional skillset is concerned (Laurie Koehn and Erin Thorn come to mind, though Thorn did learn to diversify her game at some ponit with the Liberty). So there is always a chance.

By the way...1974...very good year!

My comparison of Kelly Faris with Rodman and Artest occurred to me because in his Detroit Piston days...before the heavy rebounding stats...Rodman had the unenviable task of covering Michael Jordan. He made Jordan work so hard that Jordan lobbied to get Rodman on the Bull's roster...Jackson concurred. Same scenario with Kobe Bryant...he lobbied to pull a well-known head-case onto the Lakers, because he knew first-hand what he could do on the defensive end. Phil Jackson concurred again, and is probably still gritting his teeth thinking about Artest's shot selection.

 

[Icebear]

Emendous? Constantly being changed? Is there forgery?

Trrrrrrrrr.