Klay Thompson and I don't think it's all that close.I got into a discussion with my buddies about who is the better overall basketball player between Jimmy Butler & Klay Thompson. Before I get into my thoughts about the comparison, I would love to see what you guys think?
Klay Thompson. Even minus all the baggage that comes with Butler, Thompson is just a much better basketball player.
Yea, you & I are on the same page, can’t believe I had to argue with my bros....Klay Thompson and I don't think it's all that close.
Put Klay on a mediocre team in the East and you get Harden numbers. Put Butler on a mediocre team and you get the 2017 Bulls.
Harden numbers? No. What? No. You're getting modern Reggie Miller numbers at absolute best.
This post confirms this at least:
Klay may be the better player, but I do believe he’s overrated. And he’s better but not by a whole lot.
All I know is that when KD and Steph miss games together the Warriors tend to lose.
This is nonsensical. Of course they are going to struggle when their two best players are missing. They are obviously going to struggle if Klay and Draymond are missing together too. There is a record for these things...All I know is that when KD and Steph miss games together the Warriors tend to lose.
This stat is as stupid as is the assertion that Klay would be Harden on a different team.
This stat is an example of why people incorrectly think analytics are stupid. No disrespect to you, just this post- you are always a good poster.
This is nonsensical. Of course they are going to struggle when their two best players are missing. They are obviously going to struggle if Klay and Draymond are missing together too. There is a record for these things...
The Warriors with Durant out of the lineup win over 90% of the time, with Curry out of the lineup only about 60% of the time and even worse with Thompson out of the lineup.
The Warriors have historically struggled to win without Klay Thompson
Klay Thompson is an integral part of the Warriors success and they have a losing record over the course of his career when he misses games.warriorswire.usatoday.com
Everyone knows it's Curry's team but Klay and Draymond are also incredibly important. As unstoppable as Durant is offensively he's the one they still win at a staggering clip without.It's simplistic, but it's not stupid.
Klay essentially only does 1 thing: score. Efficiently, sure: he's an assassin. But the context of his team helps. He does nothing else. He doesn't create for others. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't block shots or force steals. His defense is good in the playoffs, but mediocre in the regular seasons the last few (4+) years.
He's literally never averaged over 3 assists a game in any season. In the free-flowing, ball movement-emphasized Warriors offense filled with insane finishers getting wide open looks, that's almost impossible. Iggy's done it all 6 years. Not even talking assist % or per 100 possessions, raw total assists per game in the crazy fast Warriors offense.
One year, he broke 3 FTs attempted per game (3.3). Out of 8 seasons. James Harden, seriously?
As such, he's a role player. A very good one. But he's a one-dimensional player most of the time.
That particular stat I linked shows that Jimmy Butler has contributed in many more facets of the game than Klay. It's essentially showing who is stuffing the stat sheet overall, and who is literally only stuffing it with points. It's BPM, so it's box score limited. Simplistic, as I said. But the advanced adjusted +/- stats back up that Thompson is overrated. PIPM rates him as having had 1 All-NBA caliber year and 0 other even All-Star caliber years.
Of course, the natural rebuttal is that he'd do more when running his own team. It's his role that's the problem. He's playing Steph and Draymond and Durant. Great playmakers. They're just optimizing his skillset without letting him expand it to what it could be. But...
That's essentially a full season sample size, for the record.
This is pretty ironic. That 10-14 record without Klay stat includes 9 games from '17-'18 when both Klay and Steph were out. They went 3-6. Also, 1 in 2015 (loss) and 1 in 2017 (loss). So it's really 3-8 without Klay AND Steph, 7-6 without just Klay. Basically the same as the Curry missing number with a much smaller sample size with much more influence of road back to back restings against good teams
The 3,000 minute sample of him playing in games without Steph is much more telling..
Give me Butler, assuming our team is okay enough that he doesn't need to pull weird locker room # 2. Then give me Klay. Also, just for the Warriors, give me Klay. He fits their other pieces slightly better.
Also the role player thing is obviously a function of what the team needs and he would get more assists and rebounds if he played anywhere else. Calling a top 3 all-time shooter, a guy who has gotten a bunch of the toughest defensive assignments, and has exploded offensively in some games like few in the history of the NBA have a role player is an intentional slight.
Dude, you're normally pretty good here but this is a horrendous take. We're now going to pretend Klay Thompson is interchangeable with Eric Gordon and JJ Redick. Wow.He's absolutely a scoring role player. His role is to score and to stretch the floor. And he does it well. And not much else. A scoring role player is more valuable than a rebounding role player, for sure.
But you plug Eric Gordon into that Warriors scoring role, how much worse are the Warriors? They are worse, and maybe lose that game 6 against OKC. But not much appreciably overall. What about JJ Redick? Do those guys make an All Star team if they had been drafted Klay's year in his place instead? I think there's a pretty good chance.
It's simplistic, but it's not stupid.
Klay essentially only does 1 thing: score. Efficiently, sure: he's an assassin. But the context of his team helps. He does nothing else. He doesn't create for others. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't block shots or force steals. His defense is good in the playoffs, but mediocre in the regular seasons the last few (4+) years.
He's literally never averaged over 3 assists a game in any season. In the free-flowing, ball movement-emphasized Warriors offense filled with insane finishers getting wide open looks, that's almost impossible. Iggy's done it all 6 years. Not even talking assist % or per 100 possessions, raw total assists per game in the crazy fast Warriors offense.
One year, he broke 3 FTs attempted per game (3.3). Out of 8 seasons. James Harden, seriously?
As such, he's a role player. A very good one. But he's a one-dimensional player most of the time.
That particular stat I linked shows that Jimmy Butler has contributed in many more facets of the game than Klay. It's essentially showing who is stuffing the stat sheet overall, and who is literally only stuffing it with points. Hey, points are the game, right? But it's pretty easy to get buckets when you're playing with 2 of the top 20 players of All Time, 1 of which has the craziest warping effect on a defense perhaps of all time, and 2 other good playmakers. Any decent scorer or shooter would thrive. The stat is BPM, so it's box score limited. Simplistic, as I said. But the advanced adjusted +/- stats back up that Thompson is overrated. PIPM rates him as having had 1 All-NBA caliber year and 0 other even All-Star caliber years. He's made 3 All-NBA and 5 All-Stars in actuality.
Of course, the natural rebuttal is that he'd do more when running his own team. It's his role that's the problem. He's playing with Steph and Draymond and Durant. Great playmakers. The coaches are just optimizing his skillset without letting him expand it to what it could be. But...
That's essentially a full season sample size, for the record.
This is pretty ironic. That 10-14 record without Klay stat includes 9 games from '17-'18 when both Klay and Steph were out. They went 3-6. Also, 1 in 2015 (loss) and 1 in 2017 (loss). So it's really 3-8 without Klay AND Steph, 7-6 without just Klay. Basically the same as the Curry missing number with a much smaller sample size with much more influence of road back to back restings against good teams
The 3,000 minute sample of him playing in games without Steph is much more telling..
Give me Butler, assuming our team is okay enough that he doesn't need to pull weird locker room # 2. Then give me Klay. Also, just for the Warriors, give me Klay. He fits their other pieces slightly better.
Let’s talk reality, we might all think we can be a general manager in the NBA & we might be even smarter than some when it comes to picking players & creating a roster, but I believe if you ask this same question to the 30 general managers around the league & add the question who would you rather start a team with that is a blank canvas I would be confident to say more than 25 general managers would pick Klay, if not all 30.
It's simplistic, but it's not stupid.
Klay essentially only does 1 thing: score. Efficiently, sure: he's an assassin. But the context of his team helps. He does nothing else. He doesn't create for others. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't block shots or force steals. His defense is good in the playoffs, but mediocre in the regular seasons the last few (4+) years.
He's literally never averaged over 3 assists a game in any season. In the free-flowing, ball movement-emphasized Warriors offense filled with insane finishers getting wide open looks, that's almost impossible. Iggy's done it all 6 years. Not even talking assist % or per 100 possessions, raw total assists per game in the crazy fast Warriors offense.
One year, he broke 3 FTs attempted per game (3.3). Out of 8 seasons. James Harden, seriously?
As such, he's a role player. A very good one. But he's a one-dimensional player most of the time.
That particular stat I linked shows that Jimmy Butler has contributed in many more facets of the game than Klay. It's essentially showing who is stuffing the stat sheet overall, and who is literally only stuffing it with points. Hey, points are the game, right? But it's pretty easy to get buckets when you're playing with 2 of the top 20 players of All Time, 1 of which has the craziest warping effect on a defense perhaps of all time, and 2 other good playmakers. Any decent scorer or shooter would thrive. The stat is BPM, so it's box score limited. Simplistic, as I said. But the advanced adjusted +/- stats back up that Thompson is overrated. PIPM rates him as having had 1 All-NBA caliber year and 0 other even All-Star caliber years. He's made 3 All-NBA and 5 All-Stars in actuality.
Of course, the natural rebuttal is that he'd do more when running his own team. It's his role that's the problem. He's playing with Steph and Draymond and Durant. Great playmakers. The coaches are just optimizing his skillset without letting him expand it to what it could be. But...
That's essentially a full season sample size, for the record.
This is pretty ironic. That 10-14 record without Klay stat includes 9 games from '17-'18 when both Klay and Steph were out. They went 3-6. Also, 1 in 2015 (loss) and 1 in 2017 (loss). So it's really 3-8 without Klay AND Steph, 7-6 without just Klay. Basically the same as the Curry missing number with a much smaller sample size with much more influence of road back to back restings against good teams
The 3,000 minute sample of him playing in games without Steph is much more telling..
Give me Butler, assuming our team is okay enough that he doesn't need to pull weird locker room # 2. Then give me Klay. Also, just for the Warriors, give me Klay. He fits their other pieces slightly better.