Jay Williams Tweet

[CL82]

Yeah, what's the point of contracts anyway.

You mean like the contract that says if he violates NCAA rules he can be discharged for cause? Contracts like that?

 

[MadDogRevival]

How? Why? He won an NCAA tourney and made another one, and if it weren't for the APR probation (2012-2013) would have made a third. I bet a ton of programs would take that.

Sure. In a vacuum that sounds great. All but a few programs in the country would sign up for a 5 year stint that included a NC.

Of course, you've ignoring a massive elephant in the room. MASSIVE.

It's like you're making a pitch on Harvey Weinstein by saying, "which movie company wouldn't want a guy who has produced so many great films and has so many awards?"

So, at the risk of attempting to force a morsel of obviousness into the mouth of a recalcitrant toddler . . . .
HE WON WITH JC's RECRUITS. The day their stays ended, so did the winning ways.
With his own recruits, it's been a nightmare.
His players have not played hard for him.
He posted two losing seasons in a row - something that hasn't been done in 35 or so years.
He had multiple top recruits flee the program and burn a year rather than stay and play for him with ample playing time available.
He failed to develop - AT ALL - any player he brought in.
His performance at UConn was SO BAD that UConn - a public school of relatively moderate means - is choosing to fire him and eat upwards of 10 million in contract breach losses to rid the building of his infestation.
He single-handedly took UConn from national prominence to openly mocked irrelevance in a mere 4 years.

Quite plainly Ollie's trajectory is aggressively downward. Flat out, he is a demonstrably awful coach.

He'll find a spot as an assistant somewhere, where he can be a good-guy mentor to marginal players. Preach work ethic. Be a shoulder to lean on or cry on. Fabricate and propagate 10-toes metaphors and such. Run rebounding drills. Use his "awwww maaaaan" face to induce sympathy.

But he'll never head-coach in the NBA - no way imaginable, and the only head coaching job he'll ever get in college would be at a school where his ability to recruit talent would compensate for his completely barren basketball mind. I figure D-II. Off chance of a marginal D-I program. But even then, when his team posts the 3rd worst D-I stat for something such as assists, who would want him? The team posting the worst?

This guy was HANDED a golden goose, he smashed the life out of it, squandered the eggs, and left us with a broken carcass and a bunch of goose s----t.

His pet saying was, "we take the stairs, not the escalator." He started on top - he didn't have far to ascend. The better metaphor is that he took the garbage shoot and rapidly took us from the top to the trash heap.

I'm blown away by these Ollie fan boys. They either have Stockholm syndrome or battered wife syndrome. I can't figure which.

 

[Stainmaster]

Sure. In a vacuum that sounds great. All but a few programs in the country would sign up for a 5 year stint that included a NC.

Of course, you've ignoring a massive elephant in the room. MASSIVE.

It's like you're making a pitch on Harvey Weinstein by saying, "which movie company wouldn't want a guy who has produced so many great films and has so many awards?"

So, at the risk of attempting to force a morsel of obviousness into the mouth of a recalcitrant toddler . . . .
HE WON WITH JC's RECRUITS. The day their stays ended, so did the winning ways.
With his own recruits, it's been a nightmare.
His players have not played hard for him.
He posted two losing seasons in a row - something that hasn't been done in 35 or so years.
He had multiple top recruits flee the program and burn a year rather than stay and play for him with ample playing time available.
He failed to develop - AT ALL - any player he brought in.
His performance at UConn was SO BAD that UConn - a public school of relatively moderate means - is choosing to fire him and eat upwards of 10 million in contract breach losses to rid the building of his infestation.
He single-handedly took UConn from national prominence to openly mocked irrelevance in a mere 4 years.

Quite plainly Ollie's trajectory is aggressively downward. Flat out, he is a demonstrably awful coach.

He'll find a spot as an assistant somewhere, where he can be a good-guy mentor to marginal players. Preach work ethic. Be a shoulder to lean on or cry on. Fabricate and propagate 10-toes metaphors and such. Run rebounding drills. Use his "awwww maaaaan" face to induce sympathy.

But he'll never head-coach in the NBA - no way imaginable, and the only head coaching job he'll ever get in college would be at a school where his ability to recruit talent would compensate for his completely barren basketball mind. I figure D-II. Off chance of a marginal D-I program. But even then, when his team posts the 3rd worst D-I stat for something such as assists, who would want him? The team posting the worst?

This guy was HANDED a golden goose, he smashed the life out of it, squandered the eggs, and left us with a broken carcass and a bunch of goose s----t.

I'm blown away by these Ollie fan boys. They either have Stockholm syndrome or battered wife syndrome. I can't figure which.

Hi Frank. “JC’s recruits” developed into championship caliber players under Ollie. They are Ollie’s players, not Calhoun’s. Be well.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Hi Frank. “JC’s recruits” developed into championship caliber players under Ollie.

True, but that doesn't mean it was Ollie who developed them. They had 2 years of JC, JC still around, and Miller still on board. What Ollie did on his own - soup to nuts with players - was putrid.
Ollie's reputation has been permanently stained.

Can anybody name a greater or faster decline of a program than that of UConn from May of 2014 to March of 2018 that didn't involve NCAA sanctions? Nope.

 

[Stainmaster]

True, but that doesn't mean it was Ollie who developed them. They had 2 years of JC, JC still around, and Miller still on board. What Ollie did on his own - soup to nuts with players - was putrid.
Ollie's reputation has been permanently stained.

Can anybody name a greater or faster decline of a program than that of UConn from May of 2014 to March of 2018 that didn't involve NCAA sanctions? Nope.

They didn’t develop under Calhoun, that’s for sure. What did DeAndre do his freshman year? What did Niels do his first two years outside of the UK game in Maui? What did Shabazz do besides get the label of “worst starting PG in program history?”

And no matter what they tell you, I’m not an Ollie fanboy. I have a far more pessimistic view about his future employment prospects than you do — I think his off-the-court issues will prevent him from even getting hired as an assistant. But the real development of the championship core occurred between 2012 and 2014.

 

[Drumguy]

They didn’t develop under Calhoun, that’s for sure. What did DeAndre do his freshman year? What did Niels do his first two years outside of the UK game in Maui? What did Shabazz do besides get the label of “worst starting PG in program history?”

And no matter what they tell you, I’m not an Ollie fanboy. I have a far more pessimistic view about his future employment prospects than you do — I think his off-the-court issues will prevent him from even getting hired as an assistant. But the real development of the championship core occurred between 2012 and 2014.

My 2 cents is Ollie was a better coach his first years in the program, when he really was ten toes in.

It looks like he got distracted as his marriage failed and then seemed to toss in the towel - certainly the abject failure in the final two years and the alienation of the team members, Miller and Calhoun seems to bear that out. Last year half the team couldn't wait to get away from him, this year there seems to be relief among the players they'll be coached by someone else.

As a fan I'm thankful for the first years and relieved he's no longer coach.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

You mean like the contract that says if he violates NCAA rules he can be discharged for cause? Contracts like that?

He was responding to the notion that the university should go after the $ irrespective of whether or not there are violations. Get it now?

 

[jibsey]

Sure. In a vacuum that sounds great. All but a few programs in the country would sign up for a 5 year stint that included a NC.

Of course, you've ignoring a massive elephant in the room. MASSIVE.

It's like you're making a pitch on Harvey Weinstein by saying, "which movie company wouldn't want a guy who has produced so many great films and has so many awards?"

So, at the risk of attempting to force a morsel of obviousness into the mouth of a recalcitrant toddler . . . .
HE WON WITH JC's RECRUITS. The day their stays ended, so did the winning ways.
With his own recruits, it's been a nightmare.
His players have not played hard for him.
He posted two losing seasons in a row - something that hasn't been done in 35 or so years.
He had multiple top recruits flee the program and burn a year rather than stay and play for him with ample playing time available.
He failed to develop - AT ALL - any player he brought in.
His performance at UConn was SO BAD that UConn - a public school of relatively moderate means - is choosing to fire him and eat upwards of 10 million in contract breach losses to rid the building of his infestation.
He single-handedly took UConn from national prominence to openly mocked irrelevance in a mere 4 years.

Quite plainly Ollie's trajectory is aggressively downward. Flat out, he is a demonstrably awful coach.

He'll find a spot as an assistant somewhere, where he can be a good-guy mentor to marginal players. Preach work ethic. Be a shoulder to lean on or cry on. Fabricate and propagate 10-toes metaphors and such. Run rebounding drills. Use his "awwww maaaaan" face to induce sympathy.

But he'll never head-coach in the NBA - no way imaginable, and the only head coaching job he'll ever get in college would be at a school where his ability to recruit talent would compensate for his completely barren basketball mind. I figure D-II. Off chance of a marginal D-I program. But even then, when his team posts the 3rd worst D-I stat for something such as assists, who would want him? The team posting the worst?

This guy was HANDED a golden goose, he smashed the life out of it, squandered the eggs, and left us with a broken carcass and a bunch of goose s----t.

His pet saying was, "we take the stairs, not the escalator." He started on top - he didn't have far to ascend. The better metaphor is that he took the garbage shoot and rapidly took us from the top to the trash heap.

I'm blown away by these Ollie fan boys. They either have Stockholm syndrome or battered wife syndrome. I can't figure which.

Many were enamored with the pet sayings after the NC. Last couple years they’re not so cute.

 

[CL82]

He was responding to the notion that the university should go after the $ irrespective of whether or not there are violations. Get it now?

No, absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Try identifying your pronouns.

 

[uconnfan68]

This past week has done a great job of separating the lawyers from the non-lawyers.

Did you pass the bar yet?

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

This past week has done a great job of separating the lawyers from the non-lawyers.

.... and good versus potentially not so good attorneys? How's @Stainmaster's LSAT preparation progressing?

 

[Point6]

Even if Herbst and Benedict wanted to give Ollie the buyout, I would argue they could not, if they believed there was a reasonable basis for a "just cause" firing under the specific language of Ollie's contract. UConn is a public institution and the buyout would (presumably) be public/taxpayer money. Giving Ollie the buyout in a case where it is not technically due under the language of Ollie's contract would arguably breach Herbst and Benedict's own fiscal duties/obligations to the University/taxpayers.

 

[MadDogRevival]

But the real development of the championship core occurred between 2012 and 2014.

We agree on this part. We disagree as to what, exactly, Ollie had to do with that development. I think Ollie had little or nothing to do with the development over those 2 years. I think it had more to do with: 1. Players having the JC mindset. 2. JC being around. 3. Miller. Maybe other things. But not Ollie.

I definitely respect that you have a different opinion. Certainly there is support for your conclusion.

 

[intlzncster]

We agree on this part. We disagree as to what, exactly, Ollie had to do with that development. I think Ollie had little or nothing to do with the development over those 2 years. I think it had more to do with: 1. Players having the JC mindset. 2. JC being around. 3. Miller. Maybe other things. But not Ollie.

Disagree with that imo. Though most of those things helped. Miller was here for last year and a lot of those guys weren't breaking down doors.

The majority of the difference probably comes down to recruiting, both in identifying the right guys...and landing them.

JC could identify guys with that junkyard dog mindset. KO seemed to attract a 'nicer' sort of kid, for lack of a better word.

KO had the opportunity to, and could have landed guys like Bonzie Colson and Bruce Brown. But he backed off and prioritized other guys. Weird in retrospect.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

UConn is a public institution and the buyout would (presumably) be public/taxpayer money. Giving Ollie the buyout in a case where it is not technically due under the language of Ollie's contract would arguably breach Herbst and Benedict's own fiscal duties/obligations to the University/taxpayers.

Citing the 2 sentences above, which facts directly support your opinions? Regarding "public/taxpayer money" purportedly funding a coaching buyout, what if any historical precedent or knowledge do you have to make such a statement? Ever ponder why UConn gave away a game at the Rent to play a supposed home football game at Fenway? ... breach of fiscal duties/obligations to the University/taxpayers? Facts @Point6 ?

 

[Stainmaster]

.... and good versus potentially not so good attorneys? How's @Stainmaster's LSAT preparation progressing?

I’ve been touring the schools I’ve gotten into all week. I scoped out Spartacus’s alma mater (who gave me a very nice scholarship) on Monday.

 

[Stainmaster]

We agree on this part. We disagree as to what, exactly, Ollie had to do with that development. I think Ollie had little or nothing to do with the development over those 2 years. I think it had more to do with: 1. Players having the JC mindset. 2. JC being around. 3. Miller. Maybe other things. But not Ollie.

I definitely respect that you have a different opinion. Certainly there is support for your conclusion.

JC being around - what does that mean? Do any of us (besides Chief) know the extent to which he was involved in practices or construction of player development plans? Was he just watching from the sidelines, or was he barking out any instructions to Kevin/the players? Was standing there with his trademark scowl a factor in how hard the players went, or how motivated they were to put in extra work? Chief is on record saying that DeAndre’s monster game against UF in the semifinal was a result of a 5-minute Calhoun pep talk. No disrespect to the G.O.A.T., but I find stuff like that so hard to believe. Yes, it’s within the realm of possibility that JC was really in charge and KO was just Spartacus-ing around. If I come across evidence of that which I seem to be reputably sourced, I’ll believe it. I was initially very defensive of KO when certain work ethic and behavior-related things started to leak out, but when the evidence began to mount, I changed my tone. Until that happens regarding JC’s role in practices those first few years, I’m sticking to my current position.

The “JC recruited a different kind of player, and KO took advantage of that” line of reasoning is the one I can get behind most, but I still think that mindset only goes so far. Mindset is only one component of how a collegiate player develops; there are still the drills, one-on-one coaching, workouts, and other factors that the head and assistant coach play a huge role in planning out and executing. These kids were still participating in Ollie’s practices that he was either taking the lead in running, having the final say over the content of, or both.

As for Miller? Yeah, he may be a decent Xs and Os guy, but it’s a little weird to retcon him into the “development guru” role given how often he played the whipping boy between 2014 and 2017. Others have alluded ITT to the many development issues that occurred while he was still on staff. I don’t want to dunk on him, but if he were the one who had such a large hand in turning those guys into champions, why is his current job the DBO for a brand-new DIII program instead of on a DI staff somewhere.

Glad to hash this out with less venom.

 

[Point6]

Citing the 2 sentences above, which facts directly support your opinions? Regarding "public/taxpayer money" purportedly funding a coaching buyout, what if any historical precedent or knowledge do you have to make such a statement? Ever ponder why UConn gave away a game at the Rent to play a supposed home football game at Fenway? ... breach of fiscal duties/obligations to the University/taxpayers? Facts @Point6 ?

Sorry I have not been following close enough to know but if this is sarcasm I am with you. If not, look at Diaco still being on this list:

29 State Employees Earn More than $500K: Who Made the List?

 

[Drumguy]

He was responding to the notion that the university should go after the $ irrespective of whether or not there are violations. Get it now?

That wasn't my point, just that there were violations so in that case it's ok for UConn to seek relief. No violations, pay up.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Sorry I have not been following close enough to know but if this is sarcasm I am with you. If not, look at Diaco still being on this list:

Reasonable queries in my message, and dead serious. Additionally, your subsequent Diaco article is irrelevant to your initial buyout comments. Based on the dearth of supporting information in your posts, I'm fairly confident a reasonable person could not agree with your statements. Your answers @Point6?

 

[olehead]

I’ve been touring the schools I’ve gotten into all week. I scoped out Spartacus’s alma mater (who gave me a very nice scholarship) on Monday.

Congrats. I wish you well.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Sure. In a vacuum that sounds great. All but a few programs in the country would sign up for a 5 year stint that included a NC.

Of course, you've ignoring a massive elephant in the room. MASSIVE.

It's like you're making a pitch on Harvey Weinstein by saying, "which movie company wouldn't want a guy who has produced so many great films and has so many awards?"

So, at the risk of attempting to force a morsel of obviousness into the mouth of a recalcitrant toddler . . . .
HE WON WITH JC's RECRUITS. The day their stays ended, so did the winning ways.
With his own recruits, it's been a nightmare.
His players have not played hard for him.
He posted two losing seasons in a row - something that hasn't been done in 35 or so years.
He had multiple top recruits flee the program and burn a year rather than stay and play for him with ample playing time available.
He failed to develop - AT ALL - any player he brought in.
His performance at UConn was SO BAD that UConn - a public school of relatively moderate means - is choosing to fire him and eat upwards of 10 million in contract breach losses to rid the building of his infestation.
He single-handedly took UConn from national prominence to openly mocked irrelevance in a mere 4 years.

Quite plainly Ollie's trajectory is aggressively downward. Flat out, he is a demonstrably awful coach.

He'll find a spot as an assistant somewhere, where he can be a good-guy mentor to marginal players. Preach work ethic. Be a shoulder to lean on or cry on. Fabricate and propagate 10-toes metaphors and such. Run rebounding drills. Use his "awwww maaaaan" face to induce sympathy.

But he'll never head-coach in the NBA - no way imaginable, and the only head coaching job he'll ever get in college would be at a school where his ability to recruit talent would compensate for his completely barren basketball mind. I figure D-II. Off chance of a marginal D-I program. But even then, when his team posts the 3rd worst D-I stat for something such as assists, who would want him? The team posting the worst?

This guy was HANDED a golden goose, he smashed the life out of it, squandered the eggs, and left us with a broken carcass and a bunch of goose s----t.

His pet saying was, "we take the stairs, not the escalator." He started on top - he didn't have far to ascend. The better metaphor is that he took the garbage shoot and rapidly took us from the top to the trash heap.

I'm blown away by these Ollie fan boys. They either have Stockholm syndrome or battered wife syndrome. I can't figure which.

I didn't bother to read your drivel. You stated that it would be hard to believe anyone would hire him as a head coach at D1 or above. "blah blah blah.... end of his coaching career". I refuted that by posting what I posted. You mentioned in response "all but a few programs in the country would sign up..........."

My point exactly. As I said, he will end up okay. His coaching career is not over, which you stated.