Jared Sullinger and Fab Melo to the Celtics... | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Jared Sullinger and Fab Melo to the Celtics...

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Those are people who b*tch and moan about everybody. Bass was a big upgrade over Baby. Period. Those people hated Baby worse; they just forgot about it when they found someone new to complain about. Bass is no All-Star but he's a better shooter and rebounder than Baby was. Davis was good as a rook and 2nd year guy but then suddenly thought he was KG. He took waaaay too many 15-17 footers. Bass makes them, at least.

Agreed. Those whiny old Celtics fans are unhappy with any PF not named McHale. I can tell you now, Sullinger is an upgrade over Davis. Better D, better post game, better jumper...no contest. These guys who can't jump out of the gym are forever underrated. Hell, I wonder if anyone would take Bird in the lottery in today's NBA, probably not. Sullinger knows how to play the game. I'd prefer Robinson, who can play and has the athleticism, but Sullinger will be in the league for years if healthy.

As for Rivers, he's a ball hog, no defense, undersized shooting guard. Horrible fit for the Celtics. If he can do what his father did, and turn his athletic gifts toward an unselfish game and become a distribute first PG with good range, he'll be a good player. I'm not sure he can. There was no SG in this draft worth moving up for. I don't think any of them even belonged in the top 10.
 
My most hardcore Celtics fan friends. They think he's lazy and that his bad games cost the Celtics more than his good games help the Celtics. I'm not a particular subscriber to that belief...but I'd say there's a healthy contingent who believe that.

Sounds like a real Mensa meeting when you guys get together.
 
I always though Flynn was better...and look at what he's doing in the NBA.

Why would you even compare the two? Because they went to Syracuse? They do not play the same position. Flynn is undersized, Waiters has very good size for his position. Waiters is much better shooter and his game translates much better to the NBA as he is so much more explosive and better in transition.
 
You guys can criticize me for whatever...but I am certainly entitled to my opinion that I hate the picks the Celtics made and I have very good reason to do so. I'm not going to argue otherwise because clearly some people really like the picks.
 
He had one bad game against Kansas where he was being guarded by an NBA body in Withey and doubled by an NBA lottery pick in Robinson. It just so happened to be his last game, and everybody was watching. This is how you make value picks: by recognizing that everyone is overrating or underrating something or someone.

Hey, he'll get blocked in the pros. Everybody not named LeBron and Durant does. What I like about him is his offensive versatility. When he gets a good matchup, he can post-up and either make a move or pass out if he gets doubled. Then he also happens to have a nice jump shot out to 20 feet.

This is all speculation, of course.

Ummm... yeah.. the NBA has "NBA bodies" and "lottery picks" everywhere... the Kansas situation will be more of the norm than the exception in the pros. Like I said, his face-up game will have to be his calling card bc he won't be scoring a lot with his back to the basket. He's just not big or athletic enough.
 
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Those are people who b*tch and moan about everybody. Bass was a big upgrade over Baby. Period. Those people hated Baby worse; they just forgot about it when they found someone new to complain about. Bass is no All-Star but he's a better shooter and rebounder than Baby was. Davis was good as a rook and 2nd year guy but then suddenly thought he was KG. He took waaaay too many 15-17 footers. Bass makes them, at least.

Bass is a great off the bench player. Jeff Green could be and sometimes is.

Bradley was another player who slipped based on injury. There's risk with the Bradley's and Sulinger's no question.

Bradley was number 1 to 4 coming out of High school and is 21. Drafted 19 by the Celts. He's got a Celtics future as does Sulinger if they can manage his injury and transition.

Melo I like as a backup plan to eat some minutes. He's mobile and might be a better Center than Thabeet. The Celts need another big guy if they re-sign Bass and Garnett

I'd being the core 5 back for two years (Bass, Allen and Garnett) and Greg Stiemsma and let these guys go

Marquis Daniels (I'm really not a fan)
Kenyon Dooling
Ryan Hollins
Sasha Pavlovic (Hated him as a Laker the damn mouth breather)
Mickael Pietrus (I'm really not a fan of MP's game either)

Jeff Green if someone better is available for the price.


NBA draft: Ankle injury ends Avery Bradley's workout plans

Rob Mahaney
Jun 14, 2010, 8:00 AM EDT
1 Comment
According to Jonathan Givony of Draft Express, possible lottery pick Avery Bradley has suffered a “mild to medium soft left ankle sprain” that will effectively end his pre-draft workout tour
 
Best case for the C's is probably:

Rondo/Dooling
Bradley/Allen/Moore
Pierce/Green/Joseph
KG/Bass/Sullinger/Johnson
MLE/Melo
 
Ummm... yeah.. the NBA has "NBA bodies" and "lottery picks" everywhere... the Kansas situation will be more of the norm than the exception in the pros. Like I said, his face-up game will have to be his calling card bc he won't be scoring a lot with his back to the basket. He's just not big or athletic enough.

Ummm...yeah. Maybe you missed the part where I said he was double-teamed by those two guys. I really doubt he's going to be double-teamed on a regular basis in the pros. And it was one bad game. That's what you call a "small sample size." He was 1st-Team All-American two years in a row. He scored against all types of players.

And, yeah, he can and will shoot from the perimeter. It won't be exclusive. He also has some low-post moves. Nobody said he's going to be Kevin McHale down low. But when he has a good matchup, he'll exploit it.
 
Best case for the C's is probably:

Rondo/Dooling
Bradley/Allen/Moore
Pierce/Green/Joseph
KG/Bass/Sullinger/Johnson
MLE/Melo

They've extended a qualfying offer to Stiemsma. We'll see 6 young guys: Bradley, Melo,Moore, Johnson, Sullinger and Stiemsma. Joseph is D-League. They don't love Dooling.

Green and the MLE are the interesting off season moves as is PG, I'm not convinced Green will sign with the Celts unless he's the guy behind Pierce and no one else..
 
Garnett has yet to say anything and there is more speculation he'll retire, especially since Danny Ainge an hour ago said that he's not sure. If Ainge is not sure, no one is sure. In recent days, Green's agent has made it clear that a return to Boston is not a certainty given the amount of interest he's garnering. Ray Allen is about as 50/50 as you can get (though he certainly will be relegated to a role player's position) and Brandon Bass is probably the most likely of the group to resign (though I know there's a huge contingent of Celtics fans that would rather not see that happen.)

FYI-Garnett signed a three year contract today.
 
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It's amazing how overrated and overhyped Bradley has become in such a short period of time. Celtics fans are real crazy about a guy who averaged 7.6 PPG last season. I know he's young and talented, but comeon - the guy wouldn't have made that much of a difference in the Celtics-Heat series. What exactly does he give you that Pietrus doesn't?
 
It's amazing how overrated and overhyped Bradley has become in such a short period of time. Celtics fans are real crazy about a guy who averaged 7.6 PPG last season. I know he's young and talented, but comeon - the guy wouldn't have made that much of a difference in the Celtics-Heat series. What exactly does he give you that Pietrus doesn't?

The numbers showed that the Celtics' defense when Ray was out and Bradley was in was historically good. Like, one of the best defensive 5 of all time. People didn't score on him. Hollinger named him the best defensive PG in the NBA. High praise (and he ain't a Celtics fan).

And you're cherrypicking: in his starts, he averaged well more than that. In April, when Ray was out, he averaged 15.1 ppg on 52% shooting. He was also on fire from 3 (55%). And he averaged 1.2 spg. But he's not a stats guy. He's a defensive stopper who became worth putting on the floor when he started making shots (after missing everything as a rookie).

Bottom line: yes, I agree, people are overhyping him based on one really amazing month (although he started playing great in February and didn't have any bad months after that). But your criticism reveals that you are ignorant of his defensive skills and thus underrating him. Pietrus can't hold Bradley's jock strap. Terrible, terrible comparison. Pietrus would be lucky to get paid $1M a year, for a reason. He has no offensive game and he is inconsistent on defense. Guy never met a pump fake he didn't jump on. Bradley is for real on defense. You have no idea what impact he would have had on the series. Wade struggled, but he was getting a lot of double-teams. What would have happened if Bradley covered Wade 1-on-1? I'm not saying the C's would have won, but who knows. The Celtics are a better team with Avery Bradley than they are without him, period.

Huskypants, I'd say Bosh is "better." Not that that's really relevant.
 
More Hollinger re Bradley:

The defense, however, hasn't just been treading water; it's practically walking on it. Boston has allowed an astounding 92.9 points per 100 possessions over its past 15 games, according to NBA.com's advanced stats tool, a figure which has propelled it to the league lead in defensive efficiency.

Let me help you try to grasp the significance of that 92.9 figure. The league average in offensive efficiency in that stretch shot up to 103.0, as every NBA team (except the ones playing Boston) found its post-lockout offensive rhythm.

So in the past 15 games, Boston's defensive efficiency is a full 10 points better than the league average, a feat which nobody has done for a full season since … actually nobody has ever done that. Not even the 2008 champions, who were only 7.98 points better.

That gives you some idea of how awesome the Celtics' defense has been, but again the question comes up: How? Early in the season, the Celtics didn't defend even remotely this well. Boston permitted 100.5 points per 100 possessions in its first 10 games, leaving it in the middle of the pack in defensive efficiency. Kevin Garnett looked heavy-legged and unable to jump, and it wasn't clear how that problem might fix itself, plus the bench was a federal disaster zone.

I wrote about this very topic in January, when Kendrick Perkins and the Thunder visited and every Celtics fan was mourning Perk's departure as the reason for the team's decline.

***

Then Avery Bradley started playing regularly at shooting guard, and suddenly the Celtics found another level.

Bradley went in the starting lineup when Ray Allen went out with an injury, and he's been so good that Allen is now coming off the bench. Bradley's impact has been twofold. First, he had been abysmal offensively in previous trials at the point, but playing off the ball next to Rondo he's proved adequate: In this nine-game stretch as a starter, he's hit double figures six times.

Defensively, however, Bradley is a world-class pest. He's quick, athletic and relentless and excels at pressuring the ball, making up for being a bit undersized for the 2. While his rejection of Dwyane Wade last week is the play everyone is talking about, my heart was won earlier this season, when Orlando's guards could scarcely get the ball across the time line against him.

Add a heavy dose of Bradley to the mix, and the result has been that an already excellent defense has become an absolutely terrifying one. In this nine-game stretch, the Celtics have allowed 79 points or fewer five times, and the only teams to beat them are Chicago and San Antonio.

The lineup data supports the idea that Boston has found itself a defensive lineup for the ages. Check out the carnage on NBA.com's advanced stats tool: When Bradley and Garnett play together, Boston gives up 88.8 points per 100 possessions, allows 38.8 percent shooting and forces nearly one turnover for every assist. This is scary stuff, and it's not one of those small-minute flukes, either -- they've played 658 minutes together.

You think that's impressive? How's this: When Rondo and Bradley play together, opponents average 82.2 points per 100 possessions.

That's nearly 20 points below the league average. It's in 271 minutes, so it's not as robust a sample as the data with Garnett, but good heavens. The Celtics barely need to bother with an offense if the D is going to provide this kind of domination.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/stor...a-boston-celtics-saved-their-season-turning-d
 
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The numbers showed that the Celtics' defense when Ray was out and Bradley was in was historically good. Like, one of the best defensive 5 of all time. People didn't score on him. Hollinger named him the best defensive PG in the NBA. High praise (and he ain't a Celtics fan).

And you're cherrypicking: in his starts, he averaged well more than that. In April, when Ray was out, he averaged 15.1 ppg on 52% shooting. He was also on fire from 3 (55%). And he averaged 1.2 spg. But he's not a stats guy. He's a defensive stopper who became worth putting on the floor when he started making shots (after missing everything as a rookie).

Bottom line: yes, I agree, people are overhyping him based on one really amazing month (although he started playing great in February and didn't have any bad months after that). But your criticism reveals that you are ignorant of his defensive skills and thus underrating him. Pietrus can't hold Bradley's jock strap. Terrible, terrible comparison. Pietrus would be lucky to get paid $1M a year, for a reason. He has no offensive game and he is inconsistent on defense. Guy never met a pump fake he didn't jump on. Bradley is for real on defense. You have no idea what impact he would have had on the series. Wade struggled, but he was getting a lot of double-teams. What would have happened if Bradley covered Wade 1-on-1? I'm not saying the C's would have won, but who knows. The Celtics are a better team with Avery Bradley than they are without him, period.

Huskypants, I'd say Bosh is "better." Not that that's really relevant.

Ok, you got me. I haven't seen him play much, and the excerpts you highlighted from the Hollinger article shows that Bradley's impact reaches far beyond what meets the eye on his statsheet. It seems like you've seen the Celtics play a lot more than me this season, so you're word is better than mine.

With that said, nobody touched Miami when Bosh was healthy. With Bosh now hitting threes and growing more and more comfortable in his role on offense, Miami has been practically unguardable, and when you consider the fact that Bosh has been much improved on defense (at least in my opinion), I just thought it was a bit farfetched for Celt fans to be playing the injury card when Miami was without a top 25 player for the first four games of that series. I could be woefully wrong, but I think there is a chance Miami wins that series in five games with Bosh healthy.

And would Bradley undoubtedly have been on the floor for the Celtics during crunch time in that series? For as well as Bradley shot the ball during the last few months during the regular season, he shot 37% from the field and 22% from three in ten postseason games. I'm not sure how much the injury contributed to those figures, but I think it's fair to be skeptical in regards to Bradley's shotmaking abilities in big moments, especially against a swarming defense like Miami's. So would Doc have opted for the guy that can stretch the floor in Ray, or would he have strengthened an already impressive defense by staying with Bradley?
 
Bradley reagrivated the shoulder early in the 1st round series and was not the same. Also, what he gives the offense is a runningmate for Rondo. He was the one player who could get out on the break with RR and finish around the rim. No one else would/could do that consistently.
 
You can't call it overhype for Bradley. People easily forgot that the Celtics drafted him pretty high (19th overall). He was a diamond-in-the-rough because he only played one year in college. But I think he was pretty much recognized as someone having an incredibly high ceiling from the draft day as long as they were willing to commit to work with him in the D-League. Those bright flashes last year are only the beginning of a very good future for Mr. Bradley. It's not overhype...he's progressing just as expected.
 
With that said, nobody touched Miami when Bosh was healthy. With Bosh now hitting threes and growing more and more comfortable in his role on offense, Miami has been practically unguardable, and when you consider the fact that Bosh has been much improved on defense (at least in my opinion), I just thought it was a bit farfetched for Celt fans to be playing the injury card when Miami was without a top 25 player for the first four games of that series. I could be woefully wrong, but I think there is a chance Miami wins that series in five games with Bosh healthy.
It's not just that the Celtics lost Bradley for the series - it's that the guy who replaced him (Ray) was at like 50%. Miami, meanwhile, got Bosh back for the last three games, and he played exceptionally well.

If both teams were healthy all series, I still think Miami wins in 6 or 7. But it's not unreasonable to think the Celtics still would've been competitive even if Bosh were there the whole time.
 
Bosh and Battier shooting out of their respective a**es was pretty key. Bosh coming back made them better no doubt but Bosh coming back and shooting like RayAllen made them unbeatable.......Bradley is going to be a very nice player........as will Sullinger if healthy.
 
Ok, you got me. I haven't seen him play much, and the excerpts you highlighted from the Hollinger article shows that Bradley's impact reaches far beyond what meets the eye on his statsheet. It seems like you've seen the Celtics play a lot more than me this season, so you're word is better than mine.

With that said, nobody touched Miami when Bosh was healthy. With Bosh now hitting threes and growing more and more comfortable in his role on offense, Miami has been practically unguardable, and when you consider the fact that Bosh has been much improved on defense (at least in my opinion), I just thought it was a bit farfetched for Celt fans to be playing the injury card when Miami was without a top 25 player for the first four games of that series. I could be woefully wrong, but I think there is a chance Miami wins that series in five games with Bosh healthy.

And would Bradley undoubtedly have been on the floor for the Celtics during crunch time in that series? For as well as Bradley shot the ball during the last few months during the regular season, he shot 37% from the field and 22% from three in ten postseason games. I'm not sure how much the injury contributed to those figures, but I think it's fair to be skeptical in regards to Bradley's shotmaking abilities in big moments, especially against a swarming defense like Miami's. So would Doc have opted for the guy that can stretch the floor in Ray, or would he have strengthened an already impressive defense by staying with Bradley?

Fair post. Bradley's offense was limited by the injury but who knows how we would have shot against Miami even if healthy. As to end-of-game situations, I think Doc probably would have coached to the scoreboard and/or gone offense-defense as much as possible. Bottom line, I agree that it is unfair for Celtics fans to say "we would have won with Bradley" without acknowledging that a healthy Bosh for 7 games would have been huge as well. I'm just trying to explain why the Bradley injury was such a punch in the gut to Celtics fans.
 
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