It's Talent and It's Recruiting

[upstater]

It sucks that we didn't win the national championship last year.

Kromah, Brimah, Giffey, Samuel, etc.

4 of the key guys on that team. None of them highly recruited.

The two I didn't mention? Shabazz. Not really a nationally regarded recruit, and in his Sophomore year, many had buried him as a never-will-be.

Daniels obviously was a top recruit but he's replaced by Daniel Hamilton.

they have a bad mix out there right now and they obviously lack a solid ball handler. But in terms of where they were recruited and where the national champ was, there's very little difference.

 

[Stainmaster]

Memphis is in the AAC

We try to forget that.

 

[Rico444]

Hard to disagree with this. The team hasn't put together an entire half where they looked like a good offensive team, not even when we played the D-II teams. Defense has the potential to be very good by the end of the year, but I just don't think this team has the personnel to be good offensively. We have one or two players that have above average handle, and the same number that can hit the 3. As a result, we have no answer when even mediocre teams like Yale pack the paint. Hard to imagine this as a tournament team.

 

[Dynasty]

We try to forget that.

We can't with @UofMemphis reminding us everyday.

 

[chapwilvaug72]

hey Ct243: Looks like you do not get out much. As one approaches Richmond on the interstate you see big parking garages with signs "Virginia Commonwealth Univ."

If you think VCU is in Norfolk, I understand why you do not drive anywhere up or down the eastern seaboard. You would never be able to return home.

 

[superjohn]

There's not a lot of evidence for your talent argument, professor. It would be one thing if they ____ the bed tonight and it was an aberration. They trailed Bryant, Charleston, and Dayton at halftime. They can't hit the broadside of a barn and have basically no offense to speak of. It's not like Yale played out of their minds. They weren't even particularly good tonight, and they still carved them up in the halfcourt.

A week ago you were saying we were going to have the best backcourt in the country.

Do you think Yale has as much talent as us?

 

[Lefty2one]

Two years ago we needed double OT to beat Quinnipiac with the core that cut down the nets last April. The sky is not falling though that was probably the worst team we've lost to in the last 25 years. At the same time, we just played the #6 team in America to the wire. Things will get better. We're a young team, replacing all of our leadership, outside shooting and a program legend. It's going to take a lot of time.

• Boat was not himself.
• Purvis is not healthy.
• Calhoun is a non-factor until he proves otherwise.
• The offense is really, really bad. We have absolutely no identity, no one looks comfortable in their role. Their is no chemistry or cohesiveness. It doesn't help that we're 311th in the nation in 3PT shooting.
  
• Every returning player was spoiled by Shabazz the two previous seasons and his ability to create his own offense and bail them out approximately one million times.
• We are not attacking at all. SIX FTA's against friggin Yale?
• We are playing at a snail's pace, actually that might be an understatement.
• I'm not sure I've see Cassell Jr take a 3PT yet where he isn't leaning backwards or sideways. Might still be adjusting to the speed of the D1 game but that needs to be corrected ASAP.
• The defense is also really bad. I can't remember a low-major ever getting so many open looks against us. They got an open J on nearly every possession it seemed. Thankfully no one on their team can shoot worth a damn, though that makes this sound even worse.

It's about toughness and playing hard. Talent isn't the issue, this team just isn't tough right now. Not defensively and not on the glass. Don't forget that Bazz was arguably the best rounder on our team last year - while that's a nice endorsement for Bazz it's a major indictment of the rest of the roster. Justin Sears getting 8 ORB and getting out-glassed as a team on the offensive boards 13-1...to Yale? Good grief. The team picked a really bad time to have nine days off. Practice is going to be hell for the next several days.

Ollie will prepare them though, we aren't going to roll into that match up against Duke and get embarrassed. Don't think KO will let it happen.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

The OP is right and the people bashing him are the same people who refuse to awknowledge anything negative relating to the program.

I've been worried about this for a while now. And this summer as we continued to swing and miss at all those recruits that we shouldn't have everyone keeps saying "no were uconn we find diamonds in the rough" and then list off Okafor who is a once in a lifetime guy. Of course we've developed plenty of guys and had a lot of success doing so. But that was also wih Jim Calhoun who was probably the best ever at it. And you also need some stars too.

The fact is basically every guy on this team besides boat omar and Hamilton was a backup option. Yeah facey and samuel were good regional guys but they were borderline top 100 at best and if I remember correctly both were signed in the spring which would imply we went after them after other options fell thru.

Cassel was added because we had no one else. Same for Nolan lubin and as much upside as he has, brimah as well. We have ten guys and only three were legit target recruits.

This is what happens. Samuel and cassell would be nice role guys who could come off the bench for a few minutes but can't be expected to play 30 min a game. Lubin and Nolan have no business seeing the court. Facey and brimah have tons of upside but have limited skills and are far from finished products. They should be backups right now. And they would be on most uconn teams from 99-12. Brimah has starter talent and is good enough but he's too inconsistent right now.

We really shouldn't be surprised. We'll see what omar and purvis cam be when they get healthy but it's a legitimate concern. The coaching staff has to do a better job recruiting. Glen Miller seems like a nice guy and I'm sure he's a decent coach but can anyone really see recruits lining up to play for him? The guy is boring as hell and has as much charisma as a tomato can. The staff needs a star recruiter.

 

[PWS]

The OP is obviously relentlessly negative about everything but he makes a valid point about the talent level of this team. Your post about Facey is just ridiculous though. I would count him among the guys that - while he wouldn't beat out Kevin Freeman at the four spot (probably even today) - can be a very good player, and sooner rather than later.

Who is the OP?

 

[boog204]

Well what happened to Samuel? He was a very solid contributor off the bench for a National Champion team. He just all of a sudden regressed?

TSam played in 30 games last year. In about 8 of those he played more than 10 minutes and in four of those games he contributed in what could be called a "very solid" way. In addition to him playing with talent that hid his lack of skills, there is a common theme on this board of remembering those two truly great tourney games and disregarding the other 25+ games where he was no factor whatsoever. He is what he is. He's Donnell Beverly. If you had lots of talent around him, he can blend in and be a glue guy. If you are relying on him to be a key cog, you are going to disappointed.

 

[chapwilvaug72]

"charisma of tomato can"

gotta luv it

 

[TheChamps990411]

TSam played in 30 games last year. In about 8 of those he played more than 10 minutes and in four of those games he contributed in what could be called a "very solid" way. In addition to him playing with talent that hid his lack of skills, there is a common theme on this board of remembering those two truly great tourney games and disregarding the other 25+ games where he was no factor whatsoever. He is what he is. He's Donnell Beverly. If you had lots of talent around him, he can blend in and be a glue guy. If you are relying on him to be a key cog, you are going to disappointed.

Exactly! And i really like him. I just think hes a guy who should come in about 10 minutes a game and play defense first and foremost. If he can get an easy basket from time to time thats great but thats all he should be doing. Hes better than Beverly who imho was just awful 95% of the time.

 

[BluffCityHsky]

We try to forget that.

Hopefully they stay.....Even though I can't stand their delusional fan base thinking they are an all time top ten team, if the below link happens we are additionally screwed. Hopefully just smoke.
http://www.espn929.com/johnmartin/Nashville-radio-host-Memphis-to-the-Big-12/20457311

 

[uconnbill]

No excuse losing to Yale, but the only place to go is up after these last three games.

 

[champs99and04]

You guys lamenting the current talent level do realize that, from a recruiting perspective, the talent is as good or better than what it was last year? We essentially swapped five star Daniels and four star Napier for five star Hamilton and five star Purvis. I realize there isn't a fool-proof correlation between recruiting rankings and basketball talent, but talent is not the problem here - the pieces don't fit right now.

 

[BUConn10]

The OP is right and the people bashing him are the same people who refuse to awknowledge anything negative relating to the program.

I've been worried about this for a while now. And this summer as we continued to swing and miss at all those recruits that we shouldn't have everyone keeps saying "no were uconn we find diamonds in the rough" and then list off Okafor who is a once in a lifetime guy. Of course we've developed plenty of guys and had a lot of success doing so. But that was also wih Jim Calhoun who was probably the best ever at it. And you also need some stars too.

The fact is basically every guy on this team besides boat omar and Hamilton was a backup option. Yeah facey and samuel were good regional guys but they were borderline top 100 at best and if I remember correctly both were signed in the spring which would imply we went after them after other options fell thru.

Cassel was added because we had no one else. Same for Nolan lubin and as much upside as he has, brimah as well. We have ten guys and only three were legit target recruits.

This is what happens. Samuel and cassell would be nice role guys who could come off the bench for a few minutes but can't be expected to play 30 min a game. Lubin and Nolan have no business seeing the court. Facey and brimah have tons of upside but have limited skills and are far from finished products. They should be backups right now. And they would be on most uconn teams from 99-12. Brimah has starter talent and is good enough but he's too inconsistent right now.

We really shouldn't be surprised. We'll see what omar and purvis cam be when they get healthy but it's a legitimate concern. The coaching staff has to do a better job recruiting. Glen Miller seems like a nice guy and I'm sure he's a decent coach but can anyone really see recruits lining up to play for him? The guy is boring as hell and has as much charisma as a tomato can. The staff needs a star recruiter.

I've been saying pretty much exactly this for quite a while now, with the same responses from overly proud detractors. Our recruiting has been getting worse each year since 2011 (aside from Drummond who was a CT native and fan of the program). Developing talent is awesome, but to win consistently you need to get good talent to begin development with.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

You guys lamenting the current talent level do realize that, from a recruiting perspective, the talent is as good or better than what it was last year? We essentially swapped five star Daniels and four star Napier for five star Hamilton and five star Purvis. I realize there isn't a fool-proof correlation between recruiting rankings and basketball talent, but talent is not the problem here - the pieces don't fit right now.

I don't think relying on "stars" -as driven home by the example you just used - is all that compelling.

 

[BUHusky]

There's not a lot of evidence for your talent argument, professor. It would be one thing if they ____ the bed tonight and it was an aberration. They trailed Bryant, Charleston, and Dayton at halftime. They can't hit the broadside of a barn and have basically no offense to speak of. It's not like Yale played out of their minds. They weren't even particularly good tonight, and they still carved them up in the halfcourt.

A week ago you were saying we were going to have the best backcourt in the country.

During the game chat you stated that Yale had more talent than UConn and now you seem to be doubling down on that absurd stance. That's f--cking ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that. Do you actually think a team of high IQ athletes who happened to win a game is more talented than a team of full 3, 4, and 5 star recruits? (some of them being key players of a national champion) Because if that's the truly the case then a lot of high level D-1 coaches made a serious mistake by passing up on these Yale kids. .

I usually commend you for being above the fray and calling out the litany of reactionary posters on this board, but apparently when gets really bad you're just another one of them.

 

[chapwilvaug72]

BUbo: Please name one club in the top 50 that would take any of 6 student athletes from UCONN (boat,amoeba,newrip,rockskew untouchable)?

 

[Paesano]

I will admit, based on rankings, we do appear to have more talent this year. However, Giffey is a wildcard because he was foreign. I think most people would have equated him to at least a 4 star player coming in. And, last year really was a miraculous run by that group. Ollie did a great job coaching those experienced kids to wins over more talented teams.

What we are seeing now is what happens to teams with limited talent when they are young and/or injured. When an injury or immaturity takes a kid out of the game, there isn't enough left to allow the team to play at a decent level. If a kid on Duke or UK gets hurt or has head issues, they just plug in another 5 star player. We plug in a 3 star. HUGE difference! We can't keep losing these recruiting battles and especially when we have obvious needs at their position!!!!! And people need to stop with the excuses. We no longer have an old coach ready to retire. We no longer have a coach without a long term contract. We no longer have an unproven young coach. We no longer lack a practice facility. Memphis gets way more 5 star kids and they are in the same conference. KO needs to build a plausible deniability shelter like the squid has and that shelter needs to start using dirty recruiting tactics. We don't pay enough. Everything else is an excuse.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think relying on "stars" -as driven home by the example you just used - is all that compelling.

Your Yale has more talent than UConn theory is much more compelling.

 

[David 76]

Sometimes it's not as complicated as we make it out to be: this team does not have enough talent, and it comes down to who we are successful in recruiting.

Since the Boat/Daniels/Drummond class, we have failed to consistently bring in UConn-caliber talent.

2012:
Omar Calhoun was highly rated, was good his freshman year but a disaster since then.
Nolan was a nobody and has played like it.
Tolksdorf never contributed.

2013:
Samuel and Facey were unheralded -- for most of our recent history guys like this would not scratch the starting lineup.
Brimah is a project with potential, but is a liability in some ways.

2014:
Hamilton is a stud, no qualifiers.
Purvis was considered a top recruit, but did not blow anyone away at NC State. Uncertain how good he'll be here.
Lubin is not a high-major talent.

Over the last 3 years, more than half of the guys we've brought in are not up to snuff relative to the level this program was at 5-10 years ago. Not every class has to have 3-4 studs, but there have simply not been enough.

There is reason to believe the recruiting situation has gotten and will get better, but if it does not improve we could be looking at a lot more of the same.

Good post. We need more talent. But you ignore why our recruiting took a nose dive (APR, recruiting violation, Calhoun's health, Ollie's probation and our conference) More importantly you don't seem to acknowledge that this class (Purvis and Hamilton) and next year's (Adams and Enoch) are already rebounds from the previous 2-3 years. Calhoun and Facey were pretty good gets for that time period
I think there is sometimes an arrogance here that we can take mediocre talent, start our season looking like S##it and win a championship because we did it in 11 and 14. Because we're UCONN. Like the jersey is going to transform Nolan and Samuel into NBA players. The Emekas of the world are rare. Amida has a shot at that and that would be once every 12 years for us

 

[CL82]

OMG, the OP is right. Our recruiting classes have been consistently ranked worse that the elite basketball squads for the last fifteen years. We can't compete against that kind of talent differential. Oh wait we've won 4 national championships with our inferior talent. Hmm, maybe, just maybe we will be okay after all. Maybe, just maybe, we are the reigning national champions getting every ones best shot every night, while we are putting 4 underclassmen on the court at the same. Maybe, just maybe, we're a team devastated by injury right now. Maybe, given all that some early season losses are pretty likely.

Nah, I'm sure you are right, we suck and will never get better.

 

[Tenspro2002]

OMG, the OP is right. Our recruiting classes have been consistently ranked worse that the elite basketball squads for the last fifteen years. We can't compete against that kind of talent differential. Oh wait we've won 4 national championships with our inferior talent.

Don't be dense. Our recruiting for the last 3 years has been measurably worse than it was in the preceding 20 years. There were extenuating circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that as a result we are currently undertalented relative to previous teams.

It's not that we failed to recruit at the level of Dook or UK. It's that we failed to recruit at the (historical) level of UConn.

And can we please stop with the revisionist BS about how our previous championship/contending teams were a bunch of plucky overachievers. I know we love the underdog narrative, but it does us a disservice. Why were we so consistently good from 1994-2009? Because we got good players.

 

[champs99and04]

I don't think relying on "stars" -as driven home by the example you just used - is all that compelling.

Then how do you propose we gauge recruiting success? Isn't that essentially what this thread is about, our inability to sign five star players?

 

[Rdm203]

He wasn't a highly rated recruit but we could really use Leon this year

 

[huskymagic]

Don't be dense. Our recruiting for the last 3 years has been measurably worse than it was in the preceding 20 years. There were extenuating circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that as a result we are currently undertalented relative to previous teams.

It's not that we failed to recruit at the level of Dook or UK. It's that we failed to recruit at the (historical) level of UConn.

And can we please stop with the revisionist BS about how our previous championship/contending teams were a bunch of plucky overachievers. I know we love the underdog narrative, but it does us a disservice. Why were we so consistently good from 1994-2009? Because we got good players.

Tenspro there are too many people that don't realize the severity of the situation so they take solace in excuses. These are the people that thought losing Prince Ali was no big deal because we got Jalen Adams even though they play different positions or he was scared of the competition here.... Imagine if Amida and Hamilton declare for the draft after this year which is a definite possibility what this team will look like next year and beyond. It's this type of nonsense that is hurting us with recruiting lately. When the likes of UNLV and San Diego St, Gonzaga are getting some top recruits lately we should be concerned and not only about the conference we are in

 

[champs99and04]

Don't be dense. Our recruiting for the last 3 years has been measurably worse than it was in the preceding 20 years. There were extenuating circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that as a result we are currently undertalented relative to previous teams.

It's not that we failed to recruit at the level of Dook or UK. It's that we failed to recruit at the (historical) level of UConn.

And can we please stop with the revisionist BS about how our previous championship/contending teams were a bunch of plucky overachievers. I know we love the underdog narrative, but it does us a disservice. Why were we so consistently good from 1994-2009? Because we got good players.

It's this part that I'm just not understanding. Fine, I'll grant you that in 2012 (Calhoun's retirement) and 2013 (postseason ban), recruiting was bad. But which part of the Hamilton/Purvis/Cassell/Lubin class is inconsistent with prior seasons? Even if you're going to deduct points from the Purvis haul because we snagged him after things had gone awry at N.C. State, that's still a fair amount of talent - we had to beat out a host of schools for Hamilton and we beat out Louisville for Cassell. Lubin was a reach, I'll grant you, but it isn't like we never took those type of players in the past.

Our starting lineup last night featured two five stars, two four stars, and a three star. And if you don't like that method, it featured three projected NBA draft picks (two first round, one second) and a bunch of other kids who contributed to a national championship team. At this point, I have to believe that people are confounding talent and experience/skill. The talent we had last year was seasoned, this year, not. Hamilton and Cassell are playing college basketball for the first time, Purvis has hardly played this season, Facey hardly played last season, Brimah we knew was going to be a work in progress. Now, we all anticipated some growing pains, but I don't think anybody imagined us losing to Yale. I get that. But all of this is a process, and our injury-riddled, makeshift roster is still two late game meltdowns away from being 5-1 with a pretty impressive resume.

 

[chapwilvaug72]

The decline in consistent year to year excellence began after the George Mason Univ debacle in 2006. The next two years were failures with a return to top form at the 2009 Final IV. Flunk 2010, 2012 and 2013 and 2015. Let us not forget the two newest World Titles smattered in between the chaos.

 

[CL82]

Don't be dense. Our recruiting for the last 3 years has been measurably worse than it was in the preceding 20 years. There were extenuating circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact that as a result we are currently undertalented relative to previous teams.

It's not that we failed to recruit at the level of Dook or UK. It's that we failed to recruit at the (historical) level of UConn.

And can we please stop with the revisionist BS about how our previous championship/contending teams were a bunch of plucky overachievers. I know we love the underdog narrative, but it does us a disservice. Why were we so consistently good from 1994-2009? Because we got good players.

Well I can't promise not to be dense but I'll just try to keep up with your obviously superior intellect. So we had superior talent from '94 to 2009 and won two championships but then had a decline in our talent from 2010 to 2014 and...won two championships. Wow the impact of that fall off in recruiting is staggering!

So while I try not to be dense, will you try not to be reactionary?

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