Is UConn WBB Ahead of Schedule?

[AYusef]

As stated in another thread, in Nov. I'd have gladly signed for beating Baylor in the E8 to lose in the semis. That said, I'm not sure that beating a Didi-less Baylor, the way that we did, has me convinced we're ahead of schedule. Probably right on schedule, imo.

They put a 19-0 run on Baylor that even without Didi still had a POY candidate/ a HOF coach/ and Carrington having the game of her life. I think even if they had lost that game they would still be ahead of schedule.

Setting Paige aside, (she was everything you could want and more) The quick emergence of Aaliyah as a future AA candidate and the solid year of Nika was more than expected in what was a strange year.

So they start next year with their sophomores not only with a year under their belt but with deep tournament experience.

 

[huskiemaniac]

They put a 19-0 run on Baylor that even without Didi still had a POY candidate/ a HOF coach/ and Carrington having the game of her life. I think even if they had lost that game they would still be ahead of schedule.

Setting Paige aside, (she was everything you could want and more) The quick emergence of Aaliyah as a future AA candidate and the solid year of Nika was more than expected in what was a strange year.

So they start next year with their sophomores not only with a year under their belt but with deep tournament experience.

So if the foul is called, and DC makes both FTs and Baylor wins 69-68, are we ahead, behind, or on schedule?

 

[hoophuskee]

Nika and Aaliyah can both play and they can both be major contributors. What is the BY going to do when you have 14 "players" over there ready to play. I guess I'll have to argue with HoopHusky (?) about Geno playing more than 6-7 players.

I tried coming up with something -- and I came up with- I have no idea what to do. I have tiers - for some - but not all. - which makes tiers irrelevant. I'm going to chicken out.

 

[huskyd]

But the team still featured half of the nation's #1 high school recruits in its starting lineup, plus a red-shirt junior who was the second best recruit in her class behind Megan. That's a pretty good foundation upon which to build a team. I think if you looked at the level of talent alone as I just did superficially, you'd say that level of talent should put a team into the final four because there are few if any others that would be as good on paper.

You're right: on paper we looked great. But the highly regarded recruits turned out to be nothing special as a team. Frankly, they seemed to lack "soul."
And, of course, there's all kinds of paper:

 

[hoopsfan22]

You're right: on paper we looked great. But the highly regarded recruits turned out to be nothing special as a team. Frankly, they seemed to lack "soul."
And, of course, there's all kinds of paper:
View attachment 66817

So the team that finished 29-2, made it to a 13th straight final four, and spent much of the season ranked as the best team in the country isn't "great?" Those are some mighty high standards you have there.

 

[BBallF]

So if the foul is called, and DC makes both FTs and Baylor wins 69-68, are we ahead, behind, or on schedule?

Good observation. However, the conclusion, whatever it is, remains the same if you are being completely analytical. If she does make both FTs and we lose, the longest thread in the history of the BY would be about how disproportionate the refereeing was the whole game and how we got screwed. Probably similar in length to the one at the Baylor equivalent after the game if they have one. Baylor was a very strong team and certainly not the #7 overall best team in the country which it was supposed to be in the absolute ranking of teams by the NCAA.

Not reaching the FF and breaking the streak would have been far worse in my mind than what happened but either way there would have been a lot of resolve in Storrs. They are probably texting and talking about next season right now. If they are not pissed and don't feel like they let themselves, the fans and the program down then they are not the young women we think they are and Geno misjudged their characters collectively. To play for Geno, above and beyond everything else, you have to care a lot because playing for UCONN is just to all-encompassing, too difficult, too self-investing, and too painful to be able to endure as a mere dilettante.

 

[huskyd]

So the team that finished 29-2, made it to a 13th straight final four, and spent much of the season ranked as the best team in the country isn't "great?" Those are some mighty high standards you have there.

I was referring to the 29-3 team of 2019-2020. This year's team was 28-2. I may have "mighty high standards," but I thought that was characteristic of UConn teams and fans. I believe most of us thought this year's team exceeded expectations.

 

[BBallF]

Above are great points made. I take a back seat to no one in being a Geno/UCONN fan by adding to your points that 3 of those FF loses were to lesser teams - not lower ranked, but lesser teams. CW had the same look on her face as Lou had after Miss. State loss, and both teams regretted not coming out with more energy/passion. Be it immaturity, multiple distractions, whatever, as a student of human nature I can't explain it. Nor can I lay it all on the various FF teams, when there seems to be a common denominator over several years/teams. I can't even convincingly explain it to myself.

Nor can I. I said in the post game thread that all 4 UCONN teams that lost in the FF recently played in an eerily similar way as though they were not fully focused, dialed in, or "present". But maybe the proper analysis is that all 4 of those teams were flawed to use HH's word and it took Geno's skill to get them to the lofty perch they all sat on and that was about as far as they could go. Or, maybe, he is just not a good FF coach because of his record in the National Semis and he doesn't prepare them mentally enough. I ask myself, how can an 11 time NCAA champion coach who has been down this road over 20 times not prepare as a coach or prepare his players? It seems unlikely.

Then I think of the teams in 2003 and 2004 and their talent level, with the exception of D, and how they played out of their minds and were so focused and committed they all looked like worldbeaters. Marie Conlon played like she should have been the starting PG on the National Team. Anne S., greatest shooter ever, and so on. Sure, D had a lot to do with that having put the team on her back, having taken true ownership, crying to herself alone in the locker room after practice because of the pressure on her, but bravely pursuing and being always "present". So, maybe it comes down to will and resolve and just plain courage. I don't think our young and/or inexperienced players, which includes our juniors also, really knew what it took on the inside to win the big prize this year. You better believe they sure as heck know it now and that they have to choose very clearly whether they want to be in the Pantheon or not.

 

[AYusef]

So if the foul is called, and DC makes both FTs and Baylor wins 69-68, are we ahead, behind, or on schedule?

I clearly said "even if they lost that game" I would still consider them ahead of schedule. For this freshman laden team to have reached the elite 8 and go toe to toe with a Baylor team that was built like a WNBA team puts them ahead of schedule going into next season. They will have a young team still that is seasoned and battle tested. Not a hard concept.

 

[AYusef]

Nor can I. I said in the post game thread that all 4 UCONN teams that lost in the FF recently played in an eerily similar way as though they were not fully focused, dialed in, or "present". But maybe the proper analysis is that all 4 of those teams were flawed to use HH's word and it took Geno's skill to get them to the lofty perch they all sat on and that was about as far as they could go. Or, maybe, he is just not a good FF coach because of his record in the National Semis and he doesn't prepare them mentally enough. I ask myself, how can an 11 time NCAA champion coach who has been down this road over 20 times not prepare as a coach or prepare his players? It seems unlikely.

Then I think of the teams in 2003 and 2004 and their talent level, with the exception of D, and how they played out of their minds and were so focused and committed they all looked like worldbeaters. Marie Conlon played like she should have been the starting PG on the National Team. Anne S., greatest shooter ever, and so on. Sure, D had a lot to do with that having put the team on her back, having taken true ownership, crying to herself alone in the locker room after practice because of the pressure on her, but bravely pursuing and being always "present". So, maybe it comes down to will and resolve and just plain courage. I don't think our young and/or inexperienced players, which includes our juniors also, really knew what it took on the inside to win the big prize this year. You better believe they sure as heck know it now and that they have to choose very clearly whether they want to be in the Pantheon or not.

Maria "big shot" Conlon = one of the most underrated Huskies of all time...

 

[NY Fan]

Nor can I. I said in the post game thread that all 4 UCONN teams that lost in the FF recently played in an eerily similar way as though they were not fully focused, dialed in, or "present". But maybe the proper analysis is that all 4 of those teams were flawed to use HH's word and it took Geno's skill to get them to the lofty perch they all sat on and that was about as far as they could go. Or, maybe, he is just not a good FF coach because of his record in the National Semis and he doesn't prepare them mentally enough. I ask myself, how can an 11 time NCAA champion coach who has been down this road over 20 times not prepare as a coach or prepare his players? It seems unlikely.

Then I think of the teams in 2003 and 2004 and their talent level, with the exception of D, and how they played out of their minds and were so focused and committed they all looked like worldbeaters. Marie Conlon played like she should have been the starting PG on the National Team. Anne S., greatest shooter ever, and so on. Sure, D had a lot to do with that having put the team on her back, having taken true ownership, crying to herself alone in the locker room after practice because of the pressure on her, but bravely pursuing and being always "present". So, maybe it comes down to will and resolve and just plain courage. I don't think our young and/or inexperienced players, which includes our juniors also, really knew what it took on the inside to win the big prize this year. You better believe they sure as heck know it now and that they have to choose very clearly whether they want to be in the Pantheon or not.

This one and your other posts combine all the elements of as good an explanation/dilemma of what took place. I reject usage of the word "flawed" for this or the other FF teams being discussed. Each was special and got there in its own way. If Arizona and Baylor were juxtaposed, with UCONN beating Arizona in the E8 and losing to Baylor in the FF, it would have been understandable and acceptable to me. After all knowledgeable observers claimed Baylor was actually the strongest team in the country and the true #1 in the UCONN draw. But FF loses to Miss. State, ND, and Arizona remains inexplicable to me. I do, however, draw satisfaction and respect for Geno and the UCONN program that he made no whinny excuses, congratulated the winners, and has come back every time as determined as ever! In many ways: beating South Carolina and Baylor, emerging star play of Nika and Alliah, and of course All Everything Paige, this team performed beyond my expectations (schedule?).

 

[AYusef]

This one and your other posts combine all the elements of as good an explanation/dilemma of what took place. I reject usage of the word "flawed" for this or the other FF teams being discussed. Each was special and got there in its own way. If Arizona and Baylor were juxtaposed, with UCONN beating Arizona in the E8 and losing to Baylor in the FF, it would have been understandable and acceptable to me. After all knowledgeable observers claimed Baylor was actually the strongest team in the country and the true #1 in the UCONN draw. But FF loses to Miss. State, ND, and Arizona remains inexplicable to me. I do, however, draw satisfaction and respect for Geno and the UCONN program that he made no whinny excuses, congratulated the winners, and has come back every time as determined as ever! In many ways: beating South Carolina and Baylor, emerging star play of Nika and Alliah, and of course All Everything Paige, this team performed beyond my expectations (schedule?).

First of all, the FF losses to ND and Miss St were on buzzer beaters if you recall. Not to mention both those teams were legitimate FF/NC teams. ND is the only program that has shown to be UConn's equal in many ways over the last decade. I don't think there is any disgrace in losing in the FF even 4 years in a row when you've won 11 NC the most of any program men or women. Especially with a team this young with back to back strong recruiting classes coming in. In other words we've seen this movie before!!

 

[MD#12Fan]

First of all, the FF losses to ND and Miss St were on buzzer beaters if you recall. Not to mention both those teams were legitimate FF/NC teams. ND is the only program that has shown to be UConn's equal in many ways over the last decade. I don't think there is any disgrace in losing in the FF even 4 years in a row when you've won 11 NC the most of any program men or women. Especially with a team this young with back to back strong recruiting classes coming in. In other words we've seen this movie before!!

I would 100% agree with you, but I do not think we have played well in these FF losses. It's a tribute to our program that we are so close to victory when we're not playing our best but I would make that distinction. Even the Arkansas game this year we had a chance to win. It feels like we hit a wall when we get to the FF.

 

[AYusef]

I would 100% agree with you, but I do not think we have played well in these FF losses. It's a tribute to our program that we are so close to victory when we're not playing our best but I would make that distinction. Even the Arkansas game this year we had a chance to win. It feels like we hit a wall when we get to the FF.

This might be hard to swallow but you have to give some credit to the other teams. Especially when ND and Miss St were both legit FF teams. They are allowed to play well and impeded UConn from playing its best. I never liked our chances in that Arkansas game, I saw that as a set up for failure. It was a game that was added at that last minute, on the road, against a SEC team that was ranked in the top 20. I wasn't surprised by the loss, I was surprised by the porous defense which has NEVER been the norm for Geno's team. Having said that they still took the lead late in that game and if they had pulled it out would've been one of the greatest heists in Husky history.
Listen, I want to win every game and win every NC too but there are other programs that are fighting hard to get to UConn' level. Like I said in other posts in other forums the only thing about the AZ. lost that bothered me was the play of our 6'5 Junior center. Other than that I love where this team is headed over the next few years!

 

[MD#12Fan]

This might be hard to swallow but you have to give some credit to the other teams. Especially when ND and Miss St were both legit FF teams. They are allowed to play well and impeded UConn from playing its best. I never liked our chances in that Arkansas game, I saw that as a set up for failure. It was a game that was added at that last minute, on the road, against a SEC team that was ranked in the top 20. I wasn't surprised by the loss, I was surprised by the porous defense which has NEVER been the norm for Geno's team. Having said that they still took the lead late in that game and if they had pulled it out would've been one of the greatest heists in Husky history.
Listen, I want to win every game and win every NC too but there are other programs that are fighting hard to get to UConn' level. Like I said in other posts in other forums the only thing about the AZ. lost that bothered me was the play of our 6'5 Junior center. Other than that I love where this team is headed over the next few years!

Good stuff!
I don't like our offense in the big game. IMO too much finesse when we're facing bigger, stronger, even older teams late in the Tourney. Our kids start standing around when we face really tough defenses. We could attack defenses off the dribble too.
I was really curious what the Stanford- UConn game would have looked like. Like a pre-Detroit Piston era NBA game. Teams in the 120's. College- both teams in the 90's.

 

[AYusef]

Good stuff!
I don't like our offense in the big game. IMO too much finesse when we're facing bigger, stronger, even older teams late in the Tourney. Our kids start standing around when we face really tough defenses. We could attack defenses off the dribble too.
I was really curious what the Stanford- UConn game would have looked like. Like a pre-Detroit Piston era NBA game. Teams in the 120's. College- both teams in the 90's.

Remember what Geno said early in the season this is not a great shooting team and he was absolutely correct. Besides Paige no one had a consistent shot, he has recruited shooters to change that. He has also recruited size/post players that can finish around the rim. He has addressed his team's shortcomings.

I thought going in to the tournament that Stanford would've been UConn' toughest foe, size and shooters all over the court. Even with the best roster she has had in years it took two shots off the back rim for Tara to win her 1st NC in 29yrs.

It's not that easy to win NC, but this collection of talent that Geno has put together has to deliver. The pressure and the standard is high. Getting to the another FF is not going to be good enough they have to win next year no question about it. They say that kind of pressure is a privilege... we'll see

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Like many UConn fans, I am spoiled. Rather than celebrating the incredible streak of 13 straight FF’s, I tend to focus on 4 straight losses in the National Semifinals. But a little over a week since the disappointing loss to AZ, I have started to consider the extraordinary success of this year’s team and what lies ahead.

Geno will tell anyone who listens that, “Winning a championship is really hard.” It took Dawn Staley 9 years to win her one and only championship at SC. Kelly Graves has been building a program towards a championship for 7 years at OR. The winningest coach in the history of WBB, Tara VanDerveer, just won her 3rd National Championship, after a 29-year drought, with two 1-point wins over SC & AZ that could have gone the other way had a last second shot fallen for either opponent. Every other team, not named UConn, builds to FF’s and national championships over many years.

So what to make of this year’s UConn team? I believe this is the youngest team ever to make it to the FF, averaging less than 1.5 years of college basketball per player with no seniors. Add all the challenges of navigating a season characterized by a global pandemic, postponements, cancellations and quarantines, and making it to the FF was a heavy lift for UConn.

The AR loss was clearly a turning point. Afterwards, UConn picked up their defense and improved their offensive execution. Nika and Aaliyah both emerged as key contributors. Christyn reminded everyone why she was the #1 player in her class. Liv became a more physical player. Evina seemed to play with less pain and contributed whatever was needed from game to game. Aubrey provided energy off the bench. Paige was Paige, the first ever freshman to earn NPOY.

UConn won a series of tough games at TN, in OT vs SC and then on to the NCAA Tournament with wins over a big Syracuse team, a high scoring Iowa team and the powerful Baylor Lady Bears. UConn finally lost to another veteran team AZ, who like AR exploited some of the weaknesses of this young Husky team. I absolutely believe that the AZ loss will motivate the Huskies next season like nothing else could.

After the AZ loss, Geno talked about the 2001 UConn team, which also lost in the National semifinals when DT was just a freshman and had possibly the worst game of her career. At the start of the following season, with an experienced Husky team, Geno knew he had a championship team before UConn ever played a game. The 2002 team steamrolled everyone on their way to a 39-0 record for the first of three straight national championships. This year, after the AZ loss, Geno surprised some with an almost brash prediction that, “We’ll be back.”

Yes, UConn has been to 13 straight FF’s. But trying to be objective, it was highly improbable that a team this young should have made it to a FF this season. IMO, UConn WBB is ahead of schedule. With all but one player coming back, a talented group of freshmen and one key transfer coming in, UConn will once again be hunting championships for several years to come.

Took Geno 10 years and another 5 to win his second.

definitely hard to win a title.

 

[bluedevil]

Remember what Geno said early in the season this is not a great shooting team and he was absolutely correct. Besides Paige no one had a consistent shot, he has recruited shooters to change that. He has also recruited size/post players that can finish around the rim. He has addressed his team's shortcomings.

I thought going in to the tournament that Stanford would've been UConn' toughest foe, size and shooters all over the court. Even with the best roster she has had in years it took two shots off the back rim for Tara to win her 1st NC in 29yrs.

It's not that easy to win NC, but this collection of talent that Geno has put together has to deliver. The pressure and the standard is high. Getting to the another FF is not going to be good enough they have to win next year no question about it. They say that kind of pressure is a privilege... we'll see

"It has to deliver" ..really? And if it doesn't? Well if it doesn't it doesn't....lord!....everyone relax..

 

[BBallF]

I think there are two very distinct and different points of view here about our last 4 and what happened this year. On the one hand there is the perspective that two of those games were buzzer beaters and that it just happened and that better teams beat us in the other two. That perspective focuses on the teams we played and finds a common thread in the slings and arrows of our fortunes in the games themselves and in our matchups. The other perspective looks primarily at our teams, identifies weaknesses that were exploited and finds a common thread in a less passionate, more passive than aggressive, less intense and focused style of play that permeated all four of those games, with the two buzzer beater losses being of a different degree than our latest loss this year.

So what are the actual commonalities? First and foremost the coach. Did he not inspire, prepare and motivate his teams four years in a row? Geno the Master Puppeteer? Is that a plausible explanation or just a convenient one? Next, the teams themselves. Did they have weaknesses that became fatal on the biggest stage? Did those weaknesses result in actual deficient play or just less confidence? Did any of these teams have any of the DT mojo that says the most important thing is not to be afraid? As I look back by memory only, before actually rewatching the 3 before this year what stood out to me was the flat, uninspired level of play. I don't think we had on the inside what we needed to win on the outside. Maybe that is way too deep, maybe if Liv goes 5-7, if Saniya gives the ball to Lou instead, if Gabby goes right instead of left, it is very much different and we all just play golf, go to the beach, and wait for next year.

I still just can't wrap my head around these last four tourneys to my satisfaction and the way we played and as loaded as we are next year, I worry. I don't yet see the quality of internal character of a Sue, a Maya, a DT, a Rebecca, a Stewie, a Mo Jeff or a Shea that permeates the team and makes them a determined and obsessed Juggernaut.

 

[NY Fan]

I think there are two very distinct and different points of view here about our last 4 and what happened this year. On the one hand there is the perspective that two of those games were buzzer beaters and that it just happened and that better teams beat us in the other two. That perspective focuses on the teams we played and finds a common thread in the slings and arrows of our fortunes in the games themselves and in our matchups. The other perspective looks primarily at our teams, identifies weaknesses that were exploited and finds a common thread in a less passionate, more passive than aggressive, less intense and focused style of play that permeated all four of those games, with the two buzzer beater losses being of a different degree than our latest loss this year.

So what are the actual commonalities? First and foremost the coach. Did he not inspire, prepare and motivate his teams four years in a row? Geno the Master Puppeteer? Is that a plausible explanation or just a convenient one? Next, the teams themselves. Did they have weaknesses that became fatal on the biggest stage? Did those weaknesses result in actual deficient play or just less confidence? Did any of these teams have any of the DT mojo that says the most important thing is not to be afraid? As I look back by memory only, before actually rewatching the 3 before this year what stood out to me was the flat, uninspired level of play. I don't think we had on the inside what we needed to win on the outside. Maybe that is way too deep, maybe if Liv goes 5-7, if Saniya gives the ball to Lou instead, if Gabby goes right instead of left, it is very much different and we all just play golf, go to the beach, and wait for next year.

I still just can't wrap my head around these last four tourneys to my satisfaction and the way we played and as loaded as we are next year, I worry. I don't yet see the quality of internal character of a Sue, a Maya, a DT, a Rebecca, a Stewie, a Mo Jeff or a Shea that permeates the team and makes them a determined and obsessed Juggernaut.

Excellent set of questions on point.

 

[huskiemaniac]

As I look back by memory only, before actually rewatching the 3 before this year what stood out to me was the flat, uninspired level of play. I don't think we had on the inside what we needed to win on the outside.

x_____________________________

 

[NY Fan]

x_____________________________

Not sure what it reveals about me, but I don't get your post. Please explain.

 

[huskiemaniac]

Not sure what it reveals about me, but I don't get your post. Please explain.

It means I agree.

 

[Longtime fan]

Like many UConn fans, I am spoiled. Rather than celebrating the incredible streak of 13 straight FF’s, I tend to focus on 4 straight losses in the National Semifinals. But a little over a week since the disappointing loss to AZ, I have started to consider the extraordinary success of this year’s team and what lies ahead.

Geno will tell anyone who listens that, “Winning a championship is really hard.” It took Dawn Staley 9 years to win her one and only championship at SC. Kelly Graves has been building a program towards a championship for 7 years at OR. The winningest coach in the history of WBB, Tara VanDerveer, just won her 3rd National Championship, after a 29-year drought, with two 1-point wins over SC & AZ that could have gone the other way had a last second shot fallen for either opponent. Every other team, not named UConn, builds to FF’s and national championships over many years.

So what to make of this year’s UConn team? I believe this is the youngest team ever to make it to the FF, averaging less than 1.5 years of college basketball per player with no seniors. Add all the challenges of navigating a season characterized by a global pandemic, postponements, cancellations and quarantines, and making it to the FF was a heavy lift for UConn.

The AR loss was clearly a turning point. Afterwards, UConn picked up their defense and improved their offensive execution. Nika and Aaliyah both emerged as key contributors. Christyn reminded everyone why she was the #1 player in her class. Liv became a more physical player. Evina seemed to play with less pain and contributed whatever was needed from game to game. Aubrey provided energy off the bench. Paige was Paige, the first ever freshman to earn NPOY.

UConn won a series of tough games at TN, in OT vs SC and then on to the NCAA Tournament with wins over a big Syracuse team, a high scoring Iowa team and the powerful Baylor Lady Bears. UConn finally lost to another veteran team AZ, who like AR exploited some of the weaknesses of this young Husky team. I absolutely believe that the AZ loss will motivate the Huskies next season like nothing else could.

After the AZ loss, Geno talked about the 2001 UConn team, which also lost in the National semifinals when DT was just a freshman and had possibly the worst game of her career. At the start of the following season, with an experienced Husky team, Geno knew he had a championship team before UConn ever played a game. The 2002 team steamrolled everyone on their way to a 39-0 record for the first of three straight national championships. This year, after the AZ loss, Geno surprised some with an almost brash prediction that, “We’ll be back.”

Yes, UConn has been to 13 straight FF’s. But trying to be objective, it was highly improbable that a team this young should have made it to a FF this season. IMO, UConn WBB is ahead of schedule. With all but one player coming back, a talented group of freshmen and one key transfer coming in, UConn will once again be hunting championships for several years to come.

We will certainly be in the hunt and, by many, favored to win the championship. But it has become harder to do so as the talent pool has expanded. All of which makes the women' game so much more fun. We shall have great talent, and great coaching All we can ask for.

 

[MooseJaw]

I was referring to the 29-3 team of 2019-2020. This year's team was 28-2. I may have "mighty high standards," but I thought that was characteristic of UConn teams and fans. I believe most of us thought this year's team exceeded expectations.

Strange, we banter about expectations when we have no idea what the new players will bring to the game. We lost one AA from this years team and our point guard along with a number of bench players. With no depth everyone knew the team while having highly regarded recruits and a transfer would be green. Therefore I expected effort, personal growth in BB skills, competitiveness, desire and team cohesiveness. I had no real record expectations, I had hopes, in this light my expectations were on target, as far as hopes all were realized except a NC.