Is this the worst case?

[John Greene]

Not a lawyer here and I know that an action can be filed for any number of reasons, real or imagined, but, didn't ESPN offer the BE a significantly larger contract which the BE rejected, befor anyone left?

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Not a lawyer here and I know that an action can be filed for any number of reasons, real or imagined, but, didn't ESPN offer the BE a significantly larger contract which the BE rejected, befor anyone left?

Yes. ESPN offered the BE a contract that was far larger than the one BE currently has. There was a strong rumor that BE would explore the next TV deal with COMCAST/NBC. ESPN basically said in the background if you don't want our deal then we will destroy you. It is much cheaper to offer something to the ACC to destroy the BE vs. competing with NBC/COMCAST on the open market for the BE deal.

Boomer Eaison said such a plan by ESPN is true. I believe it is. I have said long before CUSE and PITT mess that ESPN could destroy us. If UCONN is damaged, I sure hope our state sues the hell out of them to get some compensation. If nothing else, it might force ESPN to get ACC to take us to avoid such litigation. ESPN could avoid the horrible bad publicity that comes with any UCONN lawsuit.

 

[John Greene]

Don't mean to be picky but was the BE rep who was told "we will destroy you" wearing a wire? Or is Boomer evidence enough for the court?

 

[Chuck]

Another lawsuit? If that arguably helped us last time, there is a good chance that it put us in the place we are now... on the outside looking in. I tend think ESPN with the backing of all of its resources, is smart enough to have done things in a way that doesn't subject them to liability. Also, if ESPN told the Big East that they'd destroy them if they didn't take their deal, then why would they have placed Pitt and Syracuse in the ACC. Wasn't it Pitt that supposedly pushed the Big East to turn down the ESPN offer? Originally people were claiming that Pitt did that because they wanted to blow up the Big East to get an invite elsewhere. That would now imply that ESPN wanted to destroy the Big East so they told Pitt they'd take care of them if Pitt got the contract turned down. Now we're putting the ACC, ESPN and Pitt in cahoots. Any others we want to throw in?

UConn's problem is that it is good, not great, in the stuff that's driving realignment. Football is ok at best. The true media market (Hartford, not NY or Boston) is ok. We travel ok. Academics are ok (really I'm referring to AAU status, otherwise it's fine). UConn is also geographically undesirable for many conferences because it would be the furthest outpost of any conference not named the ACC. If all the conferences were starting from scratch, I think UConn would be fine, but we were in the weakest conference and the programs that we are stronger than in other conferences are not being kicked out. If you were running one of the current conferences would you invite UConn to join? I wouldn't, unless it was out of pity.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Another lawsuit? If that arguably helped us last time, there is a good chance that it put us in the place we are now... on the outside looking in. I tend think ESPN with the backing of all of its resources, is smart enough to have done things in a way that doesn't subject them to liability. Also, if ESPN told the Big East that they'd destroy them if they didn't take their deal, then why would they have placed Pitt and Syracuse in the ACC. Wasn't it Pitt that supposedly pushed the Big East to turn down the ESPN offer? Originally people were claiming that Pitt did that because they wanted to blow up the Big East to get an invite elsewhere. That would now imply that ESPN wanted to destroy the Big East so they told Pitt they'd take care of them if Pitt got the contract turned down. Now we're putting the ACC, ESPN and Pitt in cahoots. Any others we want to throw in?

UConn's problem is that it is good, not great, in the stuff that's driving realignment. Football is ok at best. The true media market (Hartford, not NY or Boston) is ok. We travel ok. Academics are ok (really I'm referring to AAU status, otherwise it's fine). UConn is also geographically undesirable for many conferences because it would be the furthest outpost of any conference not named the ACC. If all the conferences were starting from scratch, I think UConn would be fine, but we were in the weakest conference and the programs that we are stronger than in other conferences are not being kicked out. If you were running one of the current conferences would you invite UConn to join? I wouldn't, unless it was out of pity.

Level-headed post, except for the last line "out of pity".

I would argue we travel a little below average and that academics are pretty good, but we're basically on the same page there.

I agree it would seem hard to be able to pin ESPN and the ACC down on something, but if Rutgers, UConn and USF are left out, there is no way that NJ, FL and CT wouldn't and shouldn't pursue some sort of lawsuit. I have no legal background on such issues like this, so I can't add anymore but the whole situation in simple terms seems like it would merit action.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Another lawsuit? If that arguably helped us last time, there is a good chance that it put us in the place we are now... on the outside looking in. I tend think ESPN with the backing of all of its resources, is smart enough to have done things in a way that doesn't subject them to liability. Also, if ESPN told the Big East that they'd destroy them if they didn't take their deal, then why would they have placed Pitt and Syracuse in the ACC. Wasn't it Pitt that supposedly pushed the Big East to turn down the ESPN offer? Originally people were claiming that Pitt did that because they wanted to blow up the Big East to get an invite elsewhere. That would now imply that ESPN wanted to destroy the Big East so they told Pitt they'd take care of them if Pitt got the contract turned down. Now we're putting the ACC, ESPN and Pitt in cahoots. Any others we want to throw in?

UConn's problem is that it is good, not great, in the stuff that's driving realignment. Football is ok at best. The true media market (Hartford, not NY or Boston) is ok. We travel ok. Academics are ok (really I'm referring to AAU status, otherwise it's fine). UConn is also geographically undesirable for many conferences because it would be the furthest outpost of any conference not named the ACC. If all the conferences were starting from scratch, I think UConn would be fine, but we were in the weakest conference and the programs that we are stronger than in other conferences are not being kicked out. If you were running one of the current conferences would you invite UConn to join? I wouldn't, unless it was out of pity.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[whaler11]

I guess my problem with the ESPN is trying to destroy UConn angle is that... what's the benefit to ESPN to destroy UConn's athletic program?

At the end of the day, the schools and networks are better off if there are more geographies that are passionate about the product, not fewer.

I don't feel like looking it up but I'm pretty sure that the two highest states as ranked by per-capita income are Connecticut and New Jersey. It seems odd that Rutgers and UConn are two of the schools in the most trouble if the driver is a network which still does obtain a good amount of their revenue from advertising consumer goods.

 

[RS9999X]

ESPN is finally reporting WVU as B12 candidate 1 along with BYU.

Lousiville, TCU and then this week's flyer--Tulane.

Here's the hit list by Nate Silver's fanbase rankings (Notre Dame excluded and Sun Belt Teams)

If they can't sell NYC (Rutgers and UConn) over Louisville and Cincy then something is wrong.

Florida? (USF and UCF)? OK.
Quality? (TCU and Boise)? OK.
LU and Cincy? Some bizarre cult is behind this.

Take the top 4 and be done with it.

WVU 959,000
RU 937,000
BYU 709,000
UCONN 618,000
USF 520,000
UCF 506,000
BOISE 483,000
TCU 370,000
S MISS 361,000
ECU 348,000
CINCY 322,000
WYO 302,000
LU 300,000

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I guess my problem with the ESPN is trying to destroy UConn angle is that... what's the benefit to ESPN to destroy UConn's athletic program?

At the end of the day, the schools and networks are better off if there are more geographies that are passionate about the product, not fewer.

Not necessarily destroying UConn, but saving them having to dish out $$$ for a (nationally perceived) inferior product, within the footprint of their property, the ACC.

I think it makes perfect sense. Fracture the Big East to the point where it no longer becomes a desirable commodity for a competitor to want to own. I feel like ESPN is doing this by any means necessary and they have already struck a huge blow.

 

[Chuck]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Thanks Nelson. You were much nicer when you were dating Lisa. While I am a BC alum, I'm not a troll. Just kidding about the BC thing.

Assuming you think I'm bating people on the board because I'm a new member (of a new board I might point out), what exactly was antagonistic? Is it that UConn has a mediocre football program (history, current performance, fan support)? Does UConn not have a geography problem (I could add to my previous post that they only school in another BCS Conference within 5 hours of UConn hates us at a personal level and fears being further marginalized if UConn is let in)? Is it the fact that I don't think a lawsuit is a panacea?

I take no pleasure in the predicament that UConn is in. Being conservative, we have a top 10 men's basketball program, top 2 women's basketball program, top 20 soccer programs, high quality baseball program and random other quality sports. For a school UConn's size, in a cold area, I can't think of anyone else that can match the overall success. It sucks that none of that means anything.

 

[whaler11]

Not necessarily destroying UConn, but saving them having to dish out $$$ for a (nationally perceived) inferior product, within the footprint of their property, the ACC.

I think it makes perfect sense. Fracture the Big East to the point where it no longer becomes a desirable commodity for a competitor to want to own. I feel like ESPN is doing this by any means necessary and they have already struck a huge blow.

But a few months ago they were quite happy to shell that same money out. the schools wouldn't take it. That's some serious conspiracy pulled off that quickly.

Let's just say it's true.. ESPN is orchestrating this. Where are the stories coming from anon sources inside ESPN making it clear? There are a ton of UConn fans and grads all over that organization. People at ESPN love to talk so much I just read about a thousand pages of gossip about the network. Every memo they write is posted to the internet within hours. Where is the evidence?

 

[huskypantz]

If you were running one of the current conferences would you invite UConn to join? I wouldn't, unless it was out of pity.

That's just dumb. The reality of UConn football is that we are 10 years in to D1. We have grown immensely as a program, and there is plenty of room to continue that growth. Give us 10-15 more years and we will be selling out the Rent with 55k. As a university, we've blossomed over the past 20 years. Our campus was transformed already and storrs center is going to improve the biggest weakness we have. We're in the top 20 among public schools and enrollment continues to grow. We're a top 5 men's basketball program and the top women's program in the country. We have incredible soccer and field hockey programs and baseball is making great strides under Penders. Herbst is behind the wheel of a smooth-running car that's picking up speed. We will be just fine.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

But a few months ago they were quite happy to shell that same money out. the schools wouldn't take it. That's some serious conspiracy pulled off that quickly.

The deal would have been a big increase from the scraps we get now and in retrospect maybe we should have taken it if we knew it would have kept the conference together.

However two things need to be noted:

1. The Big East declined the deal because it felt it was under market value. I choose to believe that it was under market value because it was a re-negotiation where ESPN was the only bidder because we weren't on the open market. The Big East felt it could do better from ESPN or another competitor, which brings me to point number 2.

2. When the Big East declined the first offer, ESPN knew it was going to have to shell out more cash OR lose the Big East property to NBC Sports. I can't say how serious NBC Sports was, but it certainly seems they would have been a player. I never was in the camp that believed NBC would have given us a "mega-deal" but I think they could have at least matched what the ACC had gotten from ESPN.

These two points together left ESPN with only one option - to weaken the Big East enough that they could get them for their price or if they lost them to NBC Sports - the product would be CLEARLY inferior to their product (ACC). I'm not naive in the sense that I know college sports is a huge business, but the way college football is structured with the BCS and the premise of locking schools out, I feel their is a case to be made here. Especially considering the investments NJ, CT and FL have put into their respective programs.

 

[whaler11]

But if ESPN did all this... they didn't weaken the Big East to the point they could get them cheaper... they made the league disappear while decreasing the total number of people who would be interested in college sports in general.

It's an awfully short term strategy to destroy the Big East and decrease the universe of eyeballs interested in the overall product.

 

[Chuck]

That's just dumb. The reality of UConn football is that we are 10 years in to D1. We have grown immensely as a program, and there is plenty of room to continue that growth. Give us 10-15 more years and we will be selling out the Rent with 55k. As a university, we've blossomed over the past 20 years. Our campus was transformed already and storrs center is going to improve the biggest weakness we have. We're in the top 20 among public schools and enrollment continues to grow. We're a top 5 men's basketball program and the top women's program in the country. We have incredible soccer and field hockey programs and baseball is making great strides under Penders. Herbst is behind the wheel of a smooth-running car that's picking up speed. We will be just fine.

HP, except for calling my statement dumb, I agree with everything you say, including that UConn will be fine. I hire people for two reasons. I either hire for a need, where I take the best available person that meets a certain threshold of requirements, or because someone blows me away and I feel that I have to hire them because they may not be available when I have a need or even that they are special enough to create their own need. UConn will be fine in the former situation. If the non-Big East conferences all go to 16, we'll be fine because of the reasons you mentioned. I don't, however, believe that UConn has what makes conferences expand without a strong desire to do so. I'm hoping for my first scenario (more movement) or that you are right.

 

[toppencil]

Isn't the most likely scenario; Missouri goes to the SEC, the remaining BIG East football schools as well as TCU join the Big 12? Is it possible some of the schools only join for football, to minimize travel issues perhaps? It is probably a stop gap arrangement unless realignment stops at that point. Just seems the most logical outcome to me.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

But if ESPN did all this... they didn't weaken the Big East to the point they could get them cheaper... they made the league disappear while decreasing the total number of people who would be interested in college sports in general.

It's an awfully short term strategy to destroy the Big East and decrease the universe of eyeballs interested in the overall product.

Who knows? Maybe they don't think there are enough UConn fans in CT, Rutgers fans in NJ, or USF fans in FL to offset the money to be made from an expanded BigXII, SEC or ACC.

Ultimately, I really don't have an idea what the end game is here. Something just doesn't seem right, with the way things are being handled here. I mean, once again, I'm not naive about a billion dollar business, but at the root it's college football. The regional rivalries, traditions and conference affiliations are what makes the sport what it is. I feel the expansion will only hurt college football in the long run, when in a 16 team conference you could go 2 years without playing a team in your own conference, I mean, what a joke. IMO, things the ball started rolling with conference championship games and the 12 team conferences.

 

[whaler11]

Who knows? Maybe they don't think there are enough UConn fans in CT, Rutgers fans in NJ, or USF fans in FL to offset the money to be made from an expanded BigXII, SEC or ACC.

Ultimately, I really don't have an idea what the end game is here. Something just doesn't seem right, with the way things are being handled here. I mean, once again, I'm not naive about a billion dollar business, but at the root it's college football. The regional rivalries, traditions and conference affiliations are what makes the sport what it is. I feel the expansion will only hurt college football in the long run, when in a 16 team conference you could go 2 years without playing a team in your own conference, I mean, what a joke. IMO, things the ball started rolling with conference championship games and the 12 team conferences.

I agree that in the long run the superconferences actually hurt the sport because at it's best it's the regional rivalries that make it great. Everyone would be better off with eight major conferences with 9 teams. The problem is that the schools don't see it that way because they can't see past their short-term balance sheets.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I agree that in the long run the superconferences actually hurt the sport because at it's best it's the regional rivalries that make it great. Everyone would be better off with eight major conferences with 9 teams. The problem is that the schools don't see it that way because they can't see past their short-term balance sheets.

So true. 9 is the perfect amount of teams in a conference. Which is why I was so excited for the New Big East. TCU, WV, Pitt and Cincy alternating with Cuse, Rutgers, USF and Louisville would have been great for me as a fan. Not to mention Maryland, Michigan, Tennessee (I know things can change but as of now) on future home schedules at The Rent.

Just a damn shame if this is all for naught. I still would support the team and get season tickets, but it all seems somewhat pointless now as a shot at competeting at a high BCS level seems unlikely at this point.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Or we can roll over as the athletic program is flushed down the toilet. I will put you in the "roll over" camp.

In all candor it sounds as if it is you who is in the 'roll over' camp.

Evidently (at least in your eyes) the only opportunity we had at becoming a major collegiate athletic program was if the BE was able to land the massive television deal that Marinatto was convinced was on the horizon and now that the deal will never materialize (at least at the magnitude JM expected) our fate will now be relegated to CUSA if we are lucky, the MAC if we are not.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In all candor it sounds as if it is you who is in the 'roll over' camp.

Evidently (at least in your eyes) the only opportunity we had at becoming a major collegiate athletic program was if the BE was able to land the massive television deal that Marinatto was convinced was on the horizon and now that the deal will never materialize (at least at the magnitude JM expected) our fate will now be relegated to CUSA if we are lucky, the MAC if we are not.

Why do you keep coming after me when I keep kicking your butt? You got spunk Sparky, I will give you that.

So, what indication do we have that a big deal was around the corner for the Big East? Well, the ACC just paid $18MM each for Pitt and Syracuse, and the Big 12 looks poised to pay at least that much or more for Louisville, Cincinnati and TCU or WVU, or maybe all four. So 6 of the 9 football schools were deemed worth close to $20MM/year by the ACC and Big 12, but you are making the case the Big East would not get a big deal because... Do you have any actual evidence?

And as I keep pointing out, Marinatto wanted to take the deal, Luck, Nordenberg and basically every athletic director turned the deal down. But you know better than all of them.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You keep kicking my butt? Just like the Washington Generals keep kicking the Globetrotters butts.

My only case in the thread you quoted (but obviously misinterpreted) was that you believe that now we are relegated to CUSA or worse as a conference home yet you are claiming that others have 'rolled over'.