Is this season making Ollie a better coach?

[ctchamps]

We won a national championship largely with recruits who came in before the APR sanctions hit. Once they hit, we lost scholarships each year (meaning we couldn't sign as many players), we lost the right to go out on the road for early recruiting periods (meaning we were the only school not visible at a hugely important time in the recruiting cycle) and we were only allowed to send 2 assistants out instead of 3 (meaning it was harder to identify talents we really wanted).

How is it still being felt? Well, our 2013 class comprised 3 projects (Kentan, Samuel & Amida). For our 2014 class we landed our top target (Hamilton), then missed on our 2nd (Abu), third (Robinson), 4th (Colson) and so on down the line until we ended up with Cassell and Lubin - two guys who were clearly never going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes at this level. Those are our junior and senior classes right now.

Then, in 2015, we once again landed our top target (Adams), and also got in really early on another top-rated PG (Willie Jackson, who was a top 50 when we signed him). Except Jackson was pretty clearly a scrub, and after watching him some more we sort of mutually agreed to part ways. If we weren't hamstrung in terms of man hours on the road earlier in the cycle, there's a damn good chance we wouldn't have wasted more hours trying to sign Jackson and could instead have focused elsewhere.

But we didnt have that luxury. So while the 2015 class was the first to come in post-scholarship reduction, it was still a patchwork group because when these guys were freshmen and sophomores - when the recruiting process is really beginning - we had less access to them than literally any of the teams we were competing against. So if we made a bad early eval (as with Willie Jackson) or took a bad beat on an essential recruit (Abu) we were not able to make up for it.

Thus, the first class that we have that wasn't affected by the APR mess is the 2016 group... Which was a top 10 class in the country. And the fact remains that 3 of our 4 classes currently enrolled were the result of the APR sanctions.

IMO we won't be out from the shadow of that until the class of 2016 is in their junior season.

Apropos of everything, Syracuse is on track for their worst recruiting class in 20+ years. Sanctions work, and calling them an "excuse" is prima facie evidence that you're unable to process pretty basic information.

I don't hold a candle to what you contribute! But I'm happy to soften them up a bit until the big guns come in.

 

[Tenspro2002]

We won a national championship largely with recruits who came in before the APR sanctions hit. Once they hit, we lost scholarships each year (meaning we couldn't sign as many players), we lost the right to go out on the road for early recruiting periods (meaning we were the only school not visible at a hugely important time in the recruiting cycle) and we were only allowed to send 2 assistants out instead of 3 (meaning it was harder to identify talents we really wanted).

How is it still being felt? Well, our 2013 class comprised 3 projects (Kentan, Samuel & Amida). For our 2014 class we landed our top target (Hamilton), then missed on our 2nd (Abu), third (Robinson), 4th (Colson) and so on down the line until we ended up with Cassell and Lubin - two guys who were clearly never going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes at this level. Those are our junior and senior classes right now.

Then, in 2015, we once again landed our top target (Adams), and also got in really early on another top-rated PG (Willie Jackson, who was a top 50 when we signed him). Except Jackson was pretty clearly a scrub, and after watching him some more we sort of mutually agreed to part ways. If we weren't hamstrung in terms of man hours on the road earlier in the cycle, there's a damn good chance we wouldn't have wasted more hours trying to sign Jackson and could instead have focused elsewhere.

But we didnt have that luxury. So while the 2015 class was the first to come in post-scholarship reduction, it was still a patchwork group because when these guys were freshmen and sophomores - when the recruiting process is really beginning - we had less access to them than literally any of the teams we were competing against. So if we made a bad early eval (as with Willie Jackson) or took a bad beat on an essential recruit (Abu) we were not able to make up for it.

Thus, the first class that we have that wasn't affected by the APR mess is the 2016 group... Which was a top 10 class in the country. And the fact remains that 3 of our 4 classes currently enrolled were the result of the APR sanctions.

IMO we won't be out from the shadow of that until the class of 2016 is in their junior season.

Apropos of everything, Syracuse is on track for their worst recruiting class in 20+ years. Sanctions work, and calling them an "excuse" is prima facie evidence that you're unable to process pretty basic information.

Prince Ali de-committing was a pretty big blow as well, though he's out this year with a knee injury.

KO has done a good job landing his 1 top target per year -- usually a PG. But besides that it's been a lot of leftover goods (transfers), projects, and Plan D's. He needed Abu or Govan. He needed Ali. He needed Diallo.

I thought 2016 might have been a step in the right direction, but 2017 doesn't seem like enough (only 1 top 100 guy), and 2018 sounds like it's on iffy footing as well.

 

[gtcam]

That's not remotely true. Everyone here acknowledges we've been a very good defensive team under KO.

The problem has been offense. The "NBA mastermind", "PhD in basketball" reputation hasn't translated to that side of the ball. Part of it is personnel, but there's also been a general lack of creativity and inventiveness.

Sometimes it's been papered over by individual brilliance (Bazz, Boat, Adams), but the offense needs to be more than that.

I've read tons of folks on this board and in the chatroom blast KO on the zone, 3 pt defense and matchup's
Who are you kidding Tens

 

[BUConn10]

despite much of the criticism that KO has received last couple years, whether warranted or not, one thing has remained constant in that his guys never have flat out "quit" during a game.

What we are currently seeing at NC State right now and Gottfried's team with talent clearly throwing in the towel and losing by nearly 40 pts in multiple games in a short span would never, and has never happened under Ollie. Most coaches wouldn't have known how to continue to motivate a depleted team like ours half way through the second half of a home game down 17.

 

[Matrim55]

Prince Ali de-committing was a pretty big blow as well,

Him decommitting is the one thing I have no hesitation blaming KO for. Hopefully it's a lesson learned and will never happen again.

I thought 2016 might have been a step in the right direction, but 2017 doesn't seem like enough (only 1 top 100 guy), and 2018 sounds like it's on iffy footing as well.

A class with 3 4-star players and two other 4-star redshirts doesn't seem like enough?

Also, lol at 2018 being on "iffy footing." Ollie signed 2 of his top 3 targets in 2017, his top 2 in 2016, and his top target in each 2014 & 15, and literally none of them had signed by this point in the process.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Him decommitting is the one thing I have no hesitation blaming KO for. Hopefully it's a lesson learned and will never happen again.


A class with 3 4-star players and two other 4-star redshirts doesn't seem like enough?

Also, lol at 2018 being on "iffy footing." Ollie signed 2 of his top 3 targets in 2017, his top 2 in 2016, and his top target in each 2014 & 15, and literally none of them had signed by this point in the process.

Well, let's hold on a second. We can't give KO credit for a great 2016 class, and then also give him credit for a great 2017 class because 2 of the 2016 guys got hurt and now effectively count as 2017.

In terms of actual 2017 guys, MAL should be solid, but the other two are question marks. Rankings aren't everything, but neither Polley nor Carlton are within 30 spots of the 247 composite top 100. Lower than Facey and Enoch. Simply put, that's not good enough when guys aren't even being scared off by playing time.

For 2018, you're right that it's early. I peeked into the thread on the 3 guards we're looking at and the insider talk was tilting negative. After the Diallo fiasco, I put more stock in that than I do in people saying we're looking good on so-and-so. Plenty of time to turn it around though.

 

[rip7774]

I think this is spot on that he has really had to work and it has stretched him.

I do agree, the 2017 class is really uninspiring (love MAL) but there is still time. We need a post grad 4/5 badly that can score in the post.

 

[UconnFanDC]

In my opinion, Ollie does better with less. I feel that he tries to give everyone a chance and will play 12-13 [;ayers if he can and the chemistry never really develops. He has a big heart and at times wants to be big brother and forgets he is big coach.

 

[TitleTown]

I have been one of the biggest Ollie critics in the past and I can honestly say that he is definitely becoming a better coach. I still wish he would run a more motion based offense and get away from the pro style , one on one, iso sets.

 

[Ukonnfan]

Absolutely.

 

[willie99]

I hope this season is making Ollie a better coach. I've been saying most of the great coaches have taken a few years to define themselves, and I think / hope Ollie is following that path

I'm hoping it all comes together for him, we start winning more consistently and he puts some guys into the NBA

Getting productive people into the league will be critical for him / us in order to sustain recruiting

 

[HuskyHawk]

.
Apropos of everything, Syracuse is on track for their worst recruiting class in 20+ years. Sanctions work, and calling them an "excuse" is prima facie evidence that you're unable to process pretty basic information.

Good stuff until you got to this and decided to be a dick. I also take issue with anyone saying Facey was a project...he was raw, but a 4 star recruit.

 

[David 76]

Yes

 

[Matrim55]

Well, let's hold on a second. We can't give KO credit for a great 2016 class, and then also give him credit for a great 2017 class because 2 of the 2016 guys got hurt and now effectively count as 2017.

We certainly can. I'm of the opinion that a class with three four-stars is a good class on the face of it, and I'm also of the opinion that having two other four-stars redshirting as freshmen made the staff approach the final two scholarship openings differently.

AND I'm of the opinion that Ollie really showed his improved chops in 2017 specifically. Why? Because in 2014 when we missed Abu, we were boned - we didn't have another option we could land. In 2015 when we lost Ali, we were boned. We scrambled for Clarke and Mack, but couldn't land either of them.

In 2017 we landed a guy who was, at that time, a true 5-star big-man who we'd spent more time with than any other recruit in our orbit. And we signed him, and then parted ways with him, and guess what? We immediately went out and signed a 4-star replacement.

The process has improved tremendously over the past couple of years.

In terms of actual 2017 guys, MAL should be solid, but the other two are question marks. Rankings aren't everything, but neither Polley nor Carlton are within 30 spots of the 247 composite top 100.

Just like Vital!

 

[EBonz30]

Some of you guys make me laugh, three weeks ago a bunch of you wanted Ollie out and were saying he's a bad coach and that you rather have Ed Cooley??

Lol.

Too much, Ollie is one of the best young coaches in college, again we are lucky and fortunate to have a such a great coach right after we had a hall of fame coach.

It's rare you see Favre than Rodgers and even more rare in coaching.

Big ups to Mr. Ollie, all your hard work and love to this program is much appreciated.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Without going through this whole thread, each season has one of three possibilities.

1. You become a better coach
2. You stagnate
3. You become worse

Three is obviously out the window. So, between staying the same or improving, he falls under improving. A coach like Boeheim is stagnation. He has his system, he recruits to it and he's not deviating. Nothing to be ashamed of when it's worked for 30+ years.

Ollie has been coaching for about 5 years. Makes sense he improves each year.

And, oh by the way, improved coaching and an improved knowledge base is independent of on court results.

 

[Walker11]

I don't think we have learned anything about KO. We already knew he was a tremendous motivator. We knew he coaches a good to excellent defense. These are great traits for a coach to have.

We also knew he has coached subpar offensive teams. The decimated roster excuses the performance for this year but our perception of his offensive scheme shouldn't have changed. Player development, especially with bigs, is a mild concern. Facey has busted out which is a good omen and we are still early in KO's tenure but I'm not convinced yet.

Recruiting is meh right now. I think its disingenuous to say that we have a great 2017 class with three 4* recruits. Carlton and Polley are 3*s. A site or two may have them as a 4* but the majority have them as 3* and they are still consensus 3*. TBD on 2018.

I'm also not big on blaming the sanctions. They have hurt, no doubt. But the roster has been the most talented on paper every year in the AAC.

Ollie is a smart guy and a good coach so I'd be surprised if he hasn't improved, but there is no strong evidence.

 

[David 76]

walker, that is a pretty good assessment (maybe a little tough, imho. But I would guess you weren't one of the irrationals calling for him to be fired and saying he sucks.
There are people who feel Ollie needs to grow and improve that are not over the top.

 

[Penfield]

In my opinion, Ollie does better with less. I feel that he tries to give everyone a chance and will play 12-13 [;ayers if he can and the chemistry never really develops. He has a big heart and at times wants to be big brother and forgets he is big coach.

This is one thing I have noticed also. It felt like he has had issues in the past with players getting lost on the bench. A guy gets taken out for foul trouble or needs a rest and then it seems like Ollie completely forgets about him. With the smaller rotation forced on him he can't fall into his old ways.

 

[CTBasketball]

Ollie is a good recruiter for guards.

But if you're a Top 100 big man you have no incentive to come here. Ollie's history with big men can almost force you in the opposite direction.

 

[Drew]

Jankovich is going to get COY. They were picked to finish a distance 3rd but will likely share the title and only lose 1 or 2 games.

im pleasantly surprised by this dude. He can coach. Lets hope he keeps it going at SMU. We (as a conference) need it.