Is the transfer portal hurting the sport? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Is the transfer portal hurting the sport?

I bought Valkyries season tickets to watch professional women's basketball this year. I do not want to watch semi-pro college ball...which is really what wcbb has become. If one's team doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to spend on a starting five, then forget being competitive? It's ridiculous. It's apples vs oranges now in D1 now....glad I have a D3 team I also root for because at least that's still "college" basketball.
 
I bought Valkyries season tickets to watch professional women's basketball this year. I do not want to watch semi-pro college ball...which is really what wcbb has become. If one's team doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to spend on a starting five, then forget being competitive? It's ridiculous. It's apples vs oranges now in D1 now....glad I have a D3 team I also root for because at least that's still "college" basketball.
Here's where Cal and Stanford fans can lock arm in arm. I totally agree. I'm really pumped to be a Valks season ticket holder and I don't even mind that we'll suck this year because I'm just happy to support a league that is growing, in line with my values, and seeks to be transparent and above board. Unfortunately my interest in WCBB has been rapidly waning over the past two years.
 
If this keeps up I could see schools throwing in the towel; that's the last thing we need. Is there a way the NCAA could enforce a salary cap on money given to players? If a school is rich let them upgrade facilities until the cows come home, but at least let access to players be equal financially. Blue Bloods still would have the edge reputationally.
 
If this keeps up I could see schools throwing in the towel; that's the last thing we need. Is there a way the NCAA could enforce a salary cap on money given to players? If a school is rich let them upgrade facilities until the cows come home, but at least let access to players be equal financially. Blue Bloods still would have the edge reputationally.
Probably be an antitrust problem . Price fixing pay. Plus it would probably violate the House settlement that is supposed to be entered very soon. And there is no way they can cap things like endorsement money from 3rd parties like shoe companies or Paige’s website, Flaujai’s music etc.
 
Probably be an antitrust problem . Price fixing pay. Plus it would probably violate the House settlement that is supposed to be entered very soon. And there is no way they can cap things like endorsement money from 3rd parties like shoe companies or Paige’s website, Flaujai’s music etc.
Exactly. If we follow the law, and especially the founding documents of this country, there is no excuse for any sort of price fixing, salary caps, prior restraint, etc. If a sport gets an exemption from these principles, it can only mean that enough fools in congress (and the folks who vote them into office) think it's a matter of national security.
 
Probably be an antitrust problem . Price fixing pay. Plus it would probably violate the House settlement that is supposed to be entered very soon. And there is no way they can cap things like endorsement money from 3rd parties like shoe companies or Paige’s website, Flaujai’s music etc.
I agree, individual endorsements should have no limits. I don't know the correct terminology, but generic contributions to a school's WBB program should be capped as far as $$$ given to the players. Contributions that exceed the cap could then be used to blingify the locker rooms, provide luxury charters for transportation, etc. Current path seemingly will stretch the difference between the haves and the have nots. What fun would March Madness be if 6 teams have 90% of the WNBA-level players?
 
I've said it elsewhere, that NIL was inevitable and necessary given how unethical -- and illegal -- the existing situation was. The consequence may be a sea change in how college sports look and operate, as many here have already forecast, and we may not like it nearly as much. But it just isn't fair to force an oppressive and very likely illegal system on the athletes. I'll be very sad if our direst predictions come true, but I don't see an alternative here.
 
Exactly. If we follow the law, and especially the founding documents of this country, there is no excuse for any sort of price fixing, salary caps, prior restraint, etc. If a sport gets an exemption from these principles, it can only mean that enough fools in congress (and the folks who vote them into office) think it's a matter of national security.
love it!!
 
Exactly. If we follow the law, and especially the founding documents of this country, there is no excuse for any sort of price fixing, salary caps, prior restraint, etc. If a sport gets an exemption from these principles, it can only mean that enough fools in congress (and the folks who vote them into office) think it's a matter of national security.
I'd welcome you point me to where in the Constitution the antitrust right or prohibition exists. Believe it or not, price fixing has existed since the founding, and salary caps are part of every major sport. This isn't even remotely a constitutional issue.
 
I'd welcome you point me to where in the Constitution the antitrust right or prohibition exists. Believe it or not, price fixing has existed since the founding, and salary caps are part of every major sport. This isn't even remotely a constitutional issue.
It is a constitutional issue, though it is best articulated in the DoI. But we have neglected to see it as one as a nation for long stretches. Just because a group of people (or an entire nation) chooses to compromise its own principles for the sake of a temporary advantage or convenience doesn’t make the principle go away.
 
It is a constitutional issue, though it is best articulated in the DoI. But we have neglected to see it as one as a nation for long stretches. Just because a group of people (or an entire nation) chooses to compromise its own principles for the sake of a temporary advantage or convenience doesn’t make the principle go away.
What principle stops you from making this claim about literally any constitutional right you think should exist and that more than a few other people think should too? I have regularly practiced antitrust law, including in the House case, and I would just advise you that pretty much everyone in the field views this as controlled by the Sherman Act, which didn't exist for the first hundred years after our founding. Moreover, if anything, during the "Lochner era" in the 20s and early 30s, many thought antitrust prohibitions were themselves violations of the constitutional right to contract, so historically, at least, there's been more momentum to think the constitution prohibits antitrust restrictions than requires them.
 
If this keeps up I could see schools throwing in the towel; that's the last thing we need. Is there a way the NCAA could enforce a salary cap on money given to players? If a school is rich let them upgrade facilities until the cows come home, but at least let access to players be equal financially. Blue Bloods still would have the edge reputationally.
No. There has been consistent money flowing to college athletes before and during the NCAA existence.

I see the evolution into super conference(s) with the remaining 85-90% of schools adapting to the transfer portal.
 
I'd welcome you point me to where in the Constitution the antitrust right or prohibition exists. Believe it or not, price fixing has existed since the founding, and salary caps are part of every major sport. This isn't even remotely a constitutional issue.
Since 1890 there has been a pendulum swinging back and forth with the DOJ involvement in the market place ranging from 'big is bad' to the 'rule of reason'(or currently unreason) with anti trust enforcement.

The departing FTC chair Lina "Wrath of" Khan was an extreme example of big is bad. The pendulum has swung back to benign neglect.

I see the constitutional issue in the separation of powers and check and balances embedded in our constitutional order. That is the legislative branch can make legislation impacting merger/combination and price coordination activity and the judicial branch can rule on these pieces of legislation. Given the ambiguity of much "legislation" as we have seen recently, the executive branch can chose or not chose to enforce.

In sport, we see this from the days of Judge Landis to Congressional exemptions for sports leagues to judicial actions on free agency (Curt Flood), gambling, and property rights.

So while this type of controversy/disagreement has roots in the constitution, the NCAA and college sports environment reflects the challenges that the three branches of government encounter in attempting to clarify and apply "law"(in the Hayekian sense) in a dynamic society. The creative destruction in a liberal order leads to these tensions. The alternative to a dynamic society is terrifying for us and our grandkids.

@TheFarmFan points out the complexity of the process as the three branches interact in response to a changing economics, political and entertainment environments. The issue of state involvement in society is a contested one that defies simple advocacy. The economics and law movement in the 1970s initially offered promise in resolving some of these tensions, but unsurprisingly, has contributed to the conflict

50 years ago, has one considered legal gambling on sport (Pete Rose is rolling his eyes) with media sites promoting and benefitting, Las Vegas as a site for sports events, and the integration of these elements organizationally, you would have been called crazy.
 
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I'd welcome you point me to where in the Constitution the antitrust right or prohibition exists. Believe it or not, price fixing has existed since the founding, and salary caps are part of every major sport. This isn't even remotely a constitutional issue.
going to guess In the authority of Congress to regulate interstate commerce , which Congress likely used to pass Sherman Anti-Trust act and related legislation.

Been awhile since I could answer that for sure.
 
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going to guess In the authority of Congress to regulate interstate commerce , which Congress likely used to pass Sherman Anyi-Trust act and related legislation.

Been awhile since I could answer that for sure.
Bingo. Unless SCOTUS says Congress does not have the enumerated power to regulate this kind of commerce among the (many) states (which it does), or it finds some hidden truffle of an individual right in the Bills of Rights against the Sherman Act's restraints on restraints on trade, this is entirely a question of statutory construction and application, and therefore of judges-using-their-gut-judgment. See, eg, Wilkens' order today denying the settlement because a handful of "student"-athletes may get ejected from a roster.
 
My, how times have changed. Back in 2007 or 2008 the NCAA hit UConn with a secondary rules violation because it arranged for Maya Moore and her mother to go on a tour of ESPN. The price of this gratuity amounted to the cost of a phone call. Now it’s okay to offer players mega bucks, rock star publicity and expensive meals at fancy restaurants. Oh, did I forget the sparklers? I am just too old to change.
 
My, how times have changed. Back in 2007 or 2008 the NCAA hit UConn with a secondary rules violation because it arranged for Maya Moore and her mother to go on a tour of ESPN. The price of this gratuity amounted to the cost of a phone call. Now it’s okay to offer players mega bucks, rock star publicity and expensive meals at fancy restaurants. Oh, did I forget the sparklers? I am just too old to change.
I remember Boise St. football team team got a slap on the wrist because some of their players took some recruits to Taco Bell and let them couch dive at their place. Pretty hideous recruiting tactics going on back in the day.

But my all time favorite involved Arizona basketball. Bill Walton took his son Luke and his son's teammate/roommate Richard Jefferson to a Lakers' playoff game. Oh, you can't do that! I think Jefferson had to sit out 3 games. This wasn't a recruiting gimmick, both Luke and Richard were already at Arizona and were roommates and friends. If they weren't ball players, the family of your friend could take you on all expense paid month long trip to Europe or whatever, but pretty much everything was illegal according to the NCAA back then. As opposed to now, when as far as I can tell nothing is illegal. I must be some kind of idiot thinking there is possibly some middle ground between nothing is okay and everything is okay?
 
I remember Boise St. football team team got a slap on the wrist because some of their players took some recruits to Taco Bell and let them couch dive at their place. Pretty hideous recruiting tactics going on back in the day.

But my all time favorite involved Arizona basketball. Bill Walton took his son Luke and his son's teammate/roommate Richard Jefferson to a Lakers' playoff game. Oh, you can't do that! I think Jefferson had to sit out 3 games. This wasn't a recruiting gimmick, both Luke and Richard were already at Arizona and were roommates and friends. If they weren't ball players, the family of your friend could take you on all expense paid month long trip to Europe or whatever, but pretty much everything was illegal according to the NCAA back then. As opposed to now, when as far as I can tell nothing is illegal. I must be some kind of idiot thinking there is possibly some middle ground between nothing is okay and everything is okay?
Great exemplar of the ineffective, incoherent, self aggrandizing, inefficient, petty, arbitrary, incompetent organization FKA the NCAA.

The philosophy and actions of the bureaucrats that controlled this cartel were NEVER about the athletes or the game(s).

The sooner this "organization" is discarded to the dustbin of history the better.
 
Great exemplar of the ineffective, incoherent, self aggrandizing, inefficient, petty, arbitrary, incompetent organization FKA the NCAA.

The philosophy and actions of the bureaucrats that controlled this cartel were NEVER about the athletes or the game(s).

The sooner this "organization" is discarded to the dustbin of history the better.
But what takes its place?


The Big 10 - SEC coalition? Might do a better job, but still . . ..
 
Absolutely it is hurting the sport, especially when combined with NIL. Too many players are no longer even pretending to be college "athletes", but minor league professionals, seeking the highest payday before becoming an official professional.
 
But what takes its place?


The Big 10 - SEC coalition? Might do a better job, but still . . ..
Whatever emerges to facilitate collaboration for elie collegiate athletics will be far superior to the NCAA.

I'm not certain what the emergent collaboration mechanism will be but I suspect it will be heavily influenced by the media as collegiate sports at the elite level is entertainment.

For the 90% of collegiate Athletics that is not elite money making the institutions and conferences will be sufficient for collaboration.
 
Absolutely it is hurting the sport, especially when combined with NIL. Too many players are no longer even pretending to be college "athletes", but minor league professionals, seeking the highest payday before becoming an official professional.
At the elite level they are apprentice entertainers. At the elite levels college athletics for football and basketball in particular but also in some of the more Minor sports is merely entertainment. It has really only peripheral connection to the collegiate experience.

The vast majority however of collegiate athletes are still collegiate athletes and they are students first and then golfers, Lacrosse players, rugby players, wrestlers second
 
I think nIL chasing players to the most committed programs and forming a larger number of legitimate contenders is probably good for the sport.
 
Absolutely it is hurting the sport, especially when combined with NIL. Too many players are no longer even pretending to be college "athletes", but minor league professionals, seeking the highest payday before becoming an official professional.
The attendance, the TV ratings, and the higher interest in women’s basketball has never been better The players are making money that they never envisioned and creating lifetime opportunities for themselves that were never there.

while you may personally yearn for a different time it’s pretty obvious that NIL and the transfer portal h as s elevated the sport
just look at the number of posts on this forum that
Potential transfers to Uconn has generated
 
It probably won't happen in women's basketball, but I'm waiting for the day when private equity starts buying the rights to player's NIL contracts. It may sound laughable, but look how many musicians have sold their rights for a big payout. If it trickles down to college athletics, now we're talking anarchy.
 

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