Is Moriah likely to leave college as the best Uconn PG ever?

[UcMiami]

Posted some of this on the Stewart GOAT thread:
Uconn has been blessed with many great PGs throughout their championship run and we are currently blessed with a really good one. Is it time to start talking about Moriah as the best ever? (Obviously not since she has one more year, but indulge me!) The pantheon of guards in the modern era starts with Sue and DT followed by Jen, Rene and Bria. So ... if Moriah continues to play well and remains healthy she will leave Uconn:
Raw numbers:

1. Assists first or second - record holder right now is DT at 648 followed by Jen at 637, Rene at 632, and Sue at 585, and Bria at 559
Moriah is currently at 455 having averaged 193 assists over her last two years (195/191.) If she maintains that average she will tie DT.

2. Points fourth amongst these - DT leads with 2156, followed by Bria 1994, Rene 1990, Jen 1540, and Sue at 1378
Moriah is currently at 1067 having average 491 the last two years - if she maintains that she will end at 1558

3. Steals first amongst PGs second all time to Sales (447) - Jen is currently the leader amongst guards with 349, followed by Rene 266, Sue 243, Bria 235, and DT at 174
Mariah currently has 258 having averaged 103 the last two years - if she maintains she will have 361.

4. Rebounds fourth amongst these - DT leads with 628 followed by Bria at 550, Jen at 459, Rene at 358, and Sue at 330.
Mariah is currently at 312 with an average of 124 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 436

5. Turnovers first fewest amongst these - Sue currently has the fewest at 277, followed by Rene 351, DT 353, Bria 367, and Jen 407.
Moriah is at 172 having average 64 over the last two years - if she maintains she will have 236.

6. Blocks third amongst these - DT runs away with 147, followed by Rene at 24, Sue 15, Bria 10, and Jen 9.
Mariah currently stands at 16 having averaged 7 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 23.

7. Minutes fourth amongst these - Bria leads with 4731 followed by Rene 4605, DT 4218, Jen 4133, and Sue at 3321
Moriah is currently at 2985 having averaged 1154 the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 4139

Efficiency:
8. A/TO first among these and perhaps a school record - current leader is Sue at 2.11 followed by DT 1.84, Rene 1.80, Jen 1.57 and Bria at 1.52
Moriah is currently at 2.65 but after a bad freshman year her last two have average 3.01 - she should at least maintain 2.65 but might raise that.

9. FG % first among these - Sue leads at .481 followed by DT .469, Bria and Jen .453, and Rene at .422
Moriah is currently at .547 and has improved each year.

10. 3pt % second amongst these - Sue leads at .459, followed by DT .392, Jen .367, Bria 367, and Rene .339
Moriah is at .414 and has improved each year.

11. FT % third amongst these - Sue leads at .892 followed by DT .819, Rene .755, Bria .735 and Jen .679
Moriah is at .793

 

[Joobie]

Small but MIGHTY! Impressive numbers in every category. My jaw dropped with the number of blocks!

 

[UcMiami]

So ... my analysis of the above:
1. There is no question that DT is in the conversation for and may be the best player ever to play at Uconn and her being in this analysis is a little misleading - she played all four years with another PG - two with Sue and two with Maria Conlon, but I included her because while she is a true combo guard, she interchangeably played PG with her two PG teammates. Her scoring numbers are clearly the best of this group, but she was also a great facilitator. I think the surprising Blocks number and her leading in rebounding points to the fact that another PG was tasked with the responsibility for guarding the opponents PG and for being the one to get back on defense/leak out for the outlet pass on defensive rebounds.

2. Sue suffers on raw numbers for her truncated freshman season - anyone know why she wasn't allowed a red-shirt after eight games? Were the NCAA rules different? Jen, Rene, and Bria suffer on efficiency numbers but lead on the minutes numbers because they were thrust into the starting lineups from day one - Jen's minutes suffer from fewer games played by the team during her years.

3. Moriah is the most efficient of these players by a fairly wide margin - the A/TO and overall shooting percentages are staggering. She is of course not scoring as much as these players on a per game basis, but that is not the primary responsibility of a PG and she is shooting enough that these are not misrepresentative because of small sample size.

4. I think she and Jen would vie for who was the best defender of this group and I think Moriah probably comes out on top. The others were not chopped liver either, but Moriah's combination of speed, quickness, and intensity has not been seen at Uconn before.

5. Sue probably takes the prize for game management - but I think Moriah is very competitive there.

6. DT and Jen probably vie for leadership prize with DT winning out.

It is an impressive group and one that Moriah certainly belongs in - if she maintains and stays healthy I think she and Sue vie for the title of best ever. She already has three NCs to Sue's two, and has a chance to double up. I leave you to decide who is crowned but I am leaning toward Moriah.

 

[watanabe]

Posted some of this on the Stewart GOAT thread:
Uconn has been blessed with many great PGs throughout their championship run and we are currently blessed with a really good one. Is it time to start talking about Moriah as the best ever? (Obviously not since she has one more year, but indulge me!) The pantheon of guards in the modern era starts with Sue and DT followed by Jen, Rene and Bria. So ... if Moriah continues to play well and remains healthy she will leave Uconn:
Raw numbers:

1. ... If she maintains that average she will tie DT.

2. ...Moriah is currently at 1067 having average 491 the last two years - if she maintains that she will end at 1558

3. ...Mariah currently has 258 having averaged 103 the last two years - if she maintains she will have 361.

4. ...Mariah is currently at 312 with an average of 124 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 436

5. ...Moriah is at 172 having average 64 over the last two years - if she maintains she will have 236.

6. ...Mariah currently stands at 16 having averaged 7 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 23.

7. Minutes fourth amongst these - Bria leads with 4731 followed by Rene 4605, DT 4218, Jen 4133, and Sue at 3321
Moriah is currently at 2985 having averaged 1154 the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 4139

Efficiency:
8. ...Moriah is currently at 2.65 but after a bad freshman year her last two have average 3.01 - she should at least maintain 2.65 but might raise that.

9. FG % first among these - Sue leads at .481 followed by DT .469, Bria and Jen .453, and Rene at .422
Moriah is currently at .547 and has improved each year.

10. 3pt % second amongst these - Sue leads at .459, followed by DT .392, Jen .367, Bria 367, and Rene .339
Moriah is at .414 and has improved each year.

11. FT % third amongst these - Sue leads at .892 followed by DT .819, Rene .755, Bria .735 and Jen .679
Moriah is at .793

I just have to point out a basic error in your calculations. You assume a linear progression. Fail.
Moriah is getting better exponentially! Try to graph your results on log-log paper, log-semi log, etc and see if the data fits an exponential model. You may be surprised. and a bit awed.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Very, very tough question. Check with me next year at this time. Mo is definitely in the running.

 

[UcMiami]

watanabe - interestingly the assist number, the steals, the rebounds, and the turnovers are almost identical between her sophomore and junior years. The one area that is a progression is points and shooting percentages and I mentioned that fact on the shooting percentages.

But even on progressive numbers it will not change her rankings in these lists - she will be the best FG percentage shooter and the second best 3 point shooter, and she will not score enough to approach the three players ahead of her.

 

[bmayuc]

Taurasi is a PG in the same way LeBron is a PG. I throw her out of this discussion.

But yes, unequivocally, whether performance, efficiency, or 'ships, she will leave UConn as the greatest PG to wear the national flag blue.

The most insane stat is that she shot 60% this year. 60%!!! she's 5'7!

 

[geneticrex]

DT is the best guard to play at UConn, or anywhere else. She had a quality that cannot be measured, but anyone that watches her play and all who have played with her know to be true. She makes those on the floor with her better.

Moriah will go down as the top PG in UConn history after what I suspect will be a senior campaign for the ages.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Per wiki, Sue at 8 games had played more than 20% of the season, which was the maximum for getting a redshirt.

As per best PG, I'm still going with Miss Short and Slow based on her uncanny ability to ambush teams who underestimated her at critical points. But since according to some posters MoJeff doesn't get guarded by teams, I guess she's certainly getting in her bid for best PG as Miss Speedy and Sneaky.

 

[formerlurker]

I'll let you crazies debate this because even the most junior poster on this board knows more than me. That being said, MoJeff took over the game the other night and is the most exciting UCONN WBB player I can remember. Not taking anything away from Maya or Diana but what Mo does at 5'7" is a lot more impressive than if she were 6' like the other two legends.

She does way more with way less God given height. I'll let you decide who's the GOAT at UCONN but I'll cast my vote right now that she's my favorite point guard ever and consistently makes me say, "WTF? How did she do that?".

 

[NewCorn]

Posted some of this on the Stewart GOAT thread:
Uconn has been blessed with many great PGs throughout their championship run and we are currently blessed with a really good one. Is it time to start talking about Moriah as the best ever? (Obviously not since she has one more year, but indulge me!) The pantheon of guards in the modern era starts with Sue and DT followed by Jen, Rene and Bria. So ... if Moriah continues to play well and remains healthy she will leave Uconn:
Raw numbers:

1. Assists first or second - record holder right now is DT at 648 followed by Jen at 637, Rene at 632, and Sue at 585, and Bria at 559
Moriah is currently at 455 having averaged 193 assists over her last two years (195/191.) If she maintains that average she will tie DT.

2. Points fourth amongst these - DT leads with 2156, followed by Bria 1994, Rene 1990, Jen 1540, and Sue at 1378
Moriah is currently at 1067 having average 491 the last two years - if she maintains that she will end at 1558

3. Steals first amongst PGs second all time to Sales (447) - Jen is currently the leader amongst guards with 349, followed by Rene 266, Sue 243, Bria 235, and DT at 174
Mariah currently has 258 having averaged 103 the last two years - if she maintains she will have 361.

4. Rebounds fourth amongst these - DT leads with 628 followed by Bria at 550, Jen at 459, Rene at 358, and Sue at 330.
Mariah is currently at 312 with an average of 124 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 436

5. Turnovers first fewest amongst these - Sue currently has the fewest at 277, followed by Rene 351, DT 353, Bria 367, and Jen 407.
Moriah is at 172 having average 64 over the last two years - if she maintains she will have 236.

6. Blocks third amongst these - DT runs away with 147, followed by Rene at 24, Sue 15, Bria 10, and Jen 9.
Mariah currently stands at 16 having averaged 7 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 23.

7. Minutes fourth amongst these - Bria leads with 4731 followed by Rene 4605, DT 4218, Jen 4133, and Sue at 3321
Moriah is currently at 2985 having averaged 1154 the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 4139

Efficiency:
8. A/TO first among these and perhaps a school record - current leader is Sue at 2.11 followed by DT 1.84, Rene 1.80, Jen 1.57 and Bria at 1.52
Moriah is currently at 2.65 but after a bad freshman year her last two have average 3.01 - she should at least maintain 2.65 but might raise that.

9. FG % first among these - Sue leads at .481 followed by DT .469, Bria and Jen .453, and Rene at .422
Moriah is currently at .547 and has improved each year.

10. 3pt % second amongst these - Sue leads at .459, followed by DT .392, Jen .367, Bria 367, and Rene .339
Moriah is at .414 and has improved each year.

11. FT % third amongst these - Sue leads at .892 followed by DT .819, Rene .755, Bria .735 and Jen .679
Moriah is at .793

Good work with the stats. And if I interpret them correctly "The Wind" has the highest ratio of steals to turnovers. I think this must be some kind of record.

 

[Gurleyman]

Per wiki, Sue at 8 games had played more than 20% of the season, which was the maximum for getting a redshirt. As per best PG, I'm still going with Miss Short and Slow based on her uncanny ability to ambush teams who underestimated her at critical points. But since according to some posters MoJeff doesn't get guarded by teams, I guess she's certainly getting in her bid for best PG as Miss Speedy and Sneaky.

They changed that rule to 30 percent a few years ago. Maybe in the mid to late 00s. So now you can play 10 or so and still get a medical - back then it was only about 7, so Sue got hurt one game too late (for the purposes of eligibility, the entire NCAA Tourney counts as one game, so you don't get a benefit for advancing further).

 

[UcMiami]

Dobbs and Gurley - thanks, I though I remembered something changing in the rules but was too lazy to look it up.

formerlurker - absolutely agree. She is the most exciting player I can remember on any team - the energy, enthusiasm, joy, and intensity is non-stop - on Tuesday for the full 40 minutes. Just amazing.

 

[NewCorn]

Posted some of this on the Stewart GOAT thread:
Uconn has been blessed with many great PGs throughout their championship run and we are currently blessed with a really good one. Is it time to start talking about Moriah as the best ever? (Obviously not since she has one more year, but indulge me!) The pantheon of guards in the modern era starts with Sue and DT followed by Jen, Rene and Bria. So ... if Moriah continues to play well and remains healthy she will leave Uconn:
Raw numbers:

1. Assists first or second - record holder right now is DT at 648 followed by Jen at 637, Rene at 632, and Sue at 585, and Bria at 559
Moriah is currently at 455 having averaged 193 assists over her last two years (195/191.) If she maintains that average she will tie DT.

2. Points fourth amongst these - DT leads with 2156, followed by Bria 1994, Rene 1990, Jen 1540, and Sue at 1378
Moriah is currently at 1067 having average 491 the last two years - if she maintains that she will end at 1558

3. Steals first amongst PGs second all time to Sales (447) - Jen is currently the leader amongst guards with 349, followed by Rene 266, Sue 243, Bria 235, and DT at 174
Mariah currently has 258 having averaged 103 the last two years - if she maintains she will have 361.

4. Rebounds fourth amongst these - DT leads with 628 followed by Bria at 550, Jen at 459, Rene at 358, and Sue at 330.
Mariah is currently at 312 with an average of 124 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 436

5. Turnovers first fewest amongst these - Sue currently has the fewest at 277, followed by Rene 351, DT 353, Bria 367, and Jen 407.
Moriah is at 172 having average 64 over the last two years - if she maintains she will have 236.

6. Blocks third amongst these - DT runs away with 147, followed by Rene at 24, Sue 15, Bria 10, and Jen 9.
Mariah currently stands at 16 having averaged 7 over the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 23.

7. Minutes fourth amongst these - Bria leads with 4731 followed by Rene 4605, DT 4218, Jen 4133, and Sue at 3321
Moriah is currently at 2985 having averaged 1154 the last two years - if she maintains she will be at 4139

Efficiency:
8. A/TO first among these and perhaps a school record - current leader is Sue at 2.11 followed by DT 1.84, Rene 1.80, Jen 1.57 and Bria at 1.52
Moriah is currently at 2.65 but after a bad freshman year her last two have average 3.01 - she should at least maintain 2.65 but might raise that.

9. FG % first among these - Sue leads at .481 followed by DT .469, Bria and Jen .453, and Rene at .422
Moriah is currently at .547 and has improved each year.

10. 3pt % second amongst these - Sue leads at .459, followed by DT .392, Jen .367, Bria 367, and Rene .339
Moriah is at .414 and has improved each year.

11. FT % third amongst these - Sue leads at .892 followed by DT .819, Rene .755, Bria .735 and Jen .679
Moriah is at .793

UcMiami, thanks for these numbers. Using them, I have looked at each PG's ratio of steals to turnovers. I find that Moriah "The Wind" is the only one among these fine PG's for whom the st/to ratio is greater than one:
Moriah = 1.5
Jen = 0.86
Rene = 0.76
Sue = 0.88
DT = 0.49
Bria = 0.64
This makes me wonder if Moriah's mark is an all-time record. Does anyone know the answer to this? I think this stat shows just how efficient Moriah is. She takes the ball away and doesn't give it back. Despite the fantastic play of so many great UConn players, I find Moriah the most amazing to watch. I thrill to see "The Wind" driving through the tall trees for a layup, or ripping the net with a tornado 3-pointer, all the while managing the team expertly. For my money, Moriah is the best ever.

 

[UcMiami]

New Corn - I would guess that it might be a school record, but would be very surprised if it is anywhere near an NCAA record - there are a number of teams and players that have very high steal numbers and some of those players I suspect do not turn the ball over that much. I just checked N. Sales numbers and she comes in at 1.28 - she is far ahead of everyone in total steals for Uconn and is currently the only player with three years of 100+ steals in her career - Moriah can match that next year. FYI - had Sales not been injured at the end of her senior year she would have done it all four years as she ended at 98 that year. FYI2 - Maya comes in at 1.03

 

[Sonny44]

I love Mo to death, but when she leaves she will have had just two superstar years. Can we agree that Diana had at least three?

 

[Deadrody]

I'm going to give a qualified "No" on this. If only because, especially for Diana and Sue, they were the top player on their team. And with Sue Bird, that meant that as a sophomore, she was the unqualified leader pushing past even Svetlana and Shea.

As far as a pure point guard goes, yes, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that. But then, I don't think UConn teams rely on a pure point guard any longer, assuming they ever did. All you need to see for that is this year's final four where KML had 7 assists in the semis, and Morgan had 7 assists in the finale. I don't recall seeing that from as many players on the teams Sue or Diana played on. But, I could be wrong. Diana was certainly prolific with the assists alongside Sue and similarly, Svetlana and Shea, likewise. Diana, on the other hand, had no such help, really. At least, not to that level. Ann Strother and Maria Conlon both had seasons over 100 assists, tho.

 

[UcMiami]

I love Mo to death, but when she leaves she will have had just two superstar years. Can we agree that Diana had at least three?

Not sure I agree with that - Diana was always great, but ... 2002 was not her team with the TASS still running the show. Sort of like Moriah last year - when she put up very similar numbers to this year, but was sharing the back court with Bria and the center of the offense was Stef.

And no - I am not saying Moriah is the player DT was at all. I would say Moriah has yet to have a superstar year - but she has been in the conversation for Lieberman award for two years, winning once and likely to win again next year.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Not really sure that spending much time wondering about historic records regarding any stat with turnovers, whether they be A\TO or S\TO, is fruitful. Turnovers are not a stat that gets highlighted in record keeping for obvious reasons, especially in regards to individuals, and the NCAA didn't even start keeping individual turnover records until 1986-87. Many teams in whatever archives they have do not even note the stat for players.

Then the other issue is steals, which is kind of an archaic record since all of the top marks for steals average go back more than 10 years, and only two players from more recent times make the total steals top 10 list, and that is based mainly on the huge amount more games they played than the players of the 1990s, when most of the avg. steals marks got set. 20 years ago, many teams did not have players who could handle the ball very well, and all it took was a voracious ball thief like Ticha Penicheiro and Dawn Staley to amass huge amounts of steals from their control-challenged opponents. Another issue is that finding the career turnover marks for players on the majority of teams even up to recent years is a tough and sometimes impossible task, since the NCAA did not keep any TO records I can see for players such as Natalie White of Florida A&M from 1992-95, the all-time steals per game leader. And finally, the NCAA either doesn't accept records for some early players for at least some records or they have omissions, as Donna Holt with 524 steals (1985-88) is the school record holder for Virginia, but she does not make the lists while Dawn Staley does.

But using the two more recent pilferers as somewhat of a marker, MoJeff's current S\TO mark of 1.48 compares quite favorably to Oral Roberts' Kevi Luper at 1.27 and Louisville's Angel McCoughtry at 1.17. As to one of the old time greats Dawn Staley, I'm not sure that anyone has been nice enough to tally up her turnovers, as they do not appear in any of her career records or on the UVA site. But I was kind enough to do it for her: 163-130-109-124=526 turnovers). She did rack up the turnovers in huge amounts especially in her freshman year, which was probably not unusual in her 1988-92 era. Her S\TO ratio is therefore a more modest 0.86.

As to MoJeff's place among the UConn PGs, I have always hated the comparison games, but she is the only one who will have a chance to win 4 NCs, which I think is one of the main criteria that we use to judge a player's legacy.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm going to give a qualified "No" on this. If only because, especially for Diana and Sue, they were the top player on their team. And with Sue Bird, that meant that as a sophomore, she was the unqualified leader pushing past even Svetlana and Shea.

As far as a pure point guard goes, yes, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to say that. But then, I don't think UConn teams rely on a pure point guard any longer, assuming they ever did. All you need to see for that is this year's final four where KML had 7 assists in the semis, and Morgan had 7 assists in the finale. I don't recall seeing that from as many players on the teams Sue or Diana played on. But, I could be wrong. Diana was certainly prolific with the assists alongside Sue and similarly, Svetlana and Shea, likewise. Diana, on the other hand, had no such help, really. At least, not to that level. Ann Strother and Maria Conlon both had seasons over 100 assists, tho.

So ...
1999 - Sue's Freshman year was a wipe out, she has 25 assists in 8 games (3.1)
2000 (pre DT) she had 4.3 asst/gm (160), the team average 20.6 asst per game with Ralph leading the way 4.9 (181) and Sveta at 4.2 (154) (can't find the team cumulative stats but that is enough.
2001 - (DT Freshman Year) Sue was at 5.0 (169) and the team average was 21.7 - Ralph had 4.1 (122), DT 3.3 (109), Sveta was at 4.1 but only played 17 games and had 78 assists.
2002 - Sue had 5.9 (231), DT had 5.3 (208) and the team averaged 21.7 with Swin, Conlon, and Jones chipping in with 86, 72, and 66
2003 - DT had 4.4 (161) and the team averaged 18.0 with Ann at 3.1 (117), Maria 3.4 (130) and Battle and Moore at 70 and 52
2004 - DT had 4.9 (170) and the team average 18.8 with Turner at 3.0 (105) Maria 2.9 (100) and Ann and Battle at 82 and 50

And
2013 - Moriah's freshman year - she started two games and had 69 assists (1.8). Team leaders were Faris at 156 Hartley at 136, Dolson at 117 and Stewart at 89 The team average 20.5
2014 - Moriah had 4.9 (195) and the team averaged 21.3 - Hartley 4.3 (173) Dolson 3.4 (135) and Stewart 3.1 (122)
2015 - Moriah had 4.9 (191) and the team averaged 21.2 - Stewart 3.1 (122) Tuck 2.9 (115) Nurse 2.8 (108) and KML 2.7 (104)

 

[UcMiami]

The previous post analysis -
1. DT and Sue each lead their teams in assists only 2 years.
2. Sveta (and her 4.1 A/gm) going down in DTs freshman year was the point where DT became more essential to the team. Of the three she was the only one that really contributed and was needed to contribute as a freshman.
3. DT's junior and senior years are noticeably below the other five years in this discussion in terms of assists.
4. Moriah has certainly had lots of teammates amass good totals of assists but she has clearly been the assist leader that last two years and likely will be next year as well.
5. Uconn has always been a great passing team - and the leader in assists in the years in question has represented 23 - 27% of the team totals - Sue at the top in 2002 and Sue 2001 and Moriah's two years at the bottom 23%) I am not sure the range is statistically relevant.
6. The 2002 and 2014 years are fairly similar in that Sue/DT and Moriah/Bria represent fairly close interchangeable guard combos. With Kia and Moriah next year it may be a similar situation.
7. On a per game basis Sue will probably end up as the assist per game leader of the three because her freshman year she played only 8 games and learned from the bench the rest of the year. Her number is 4.95, DT is at 4.5, Moriah is at 3.86 which will improve as her freshman year is diluted by more of the current rate of 4.9. (FYI JenR is at 4.7) If looking at just their last three years - Sue will still lead at around 5.0, Moriah will likely be second at 4.9 and DT will be around 4.9 as well.

Not sure I see a significant difference in the composition of teams between the Sue/DT eras and the Moriah era - except that Moriah is playing with better passing bigs - Dolson, Stewart, and Tuck are not the black holes that Williams, Jones, and Cash represented!

 

[UcMiami]

(Obviously I have too much time on my hands and just can't let the season end!!!)

 

[CL82]

It is an impressive group and one that Moriah certainly belongs in.

That statement alone is an impressive compliment. She's got some tough competition to beat to be at the top, but clearly she belongs. Thanks for putting together the stats. I didn't realize just how well she stacks up.

 

[intlzncster]

Big difference is that Mo plays with all time greats like Stewart and KML. DT is so far ahead in that respect. Nobody commanded the other teams attention like DT (not even Maya).

As far as pure point goes, obviously Mo is better. But as a player, she's not on DT's level.

 

[hoophuskee]

Just as another poster pointed out, DT is similar to LeBron. When speaking of LBJ in terms of all-time greatness - I would identify him as a sf and give him a ton of kudos for running the game like pg. Same with DT. She is a sg that I give supreme kudos for being a pg. Neither were a pg full-time. While basically MoJeff and Bird are. So for full-time pg's - MoJeff is right there with Bird and frankly by end of sr year I think she will slightly surpass by most of us.

IMO it's her defense. The game she played vs ND - it was her defense on Loyd that was sensational. Part of being a pg is defending the other team's ability to get into their sets in some cases by putting pressure on the ball or defending a top flight player. And her defense is tremendous since after the And game. And I think she was awesome for KML.