Is Lebron the Diana of the NBA?

[UConnCat]

I like that Diana's 3rd championship with the Mercury was 5 years later and with an entirely new roster but for Bonner and Taylor (important pieces, I know). I look forward to seeing what Maya and the Lynx are able to accomplish as the roster changes.

 

[UConnCat]

Settle down my children. So often women athletes are compared to men. I was just enjoying a fun opportunity to do the reverse, not entirely seriously. And while DT '03 likely did have a stronger supporting cast than LBJ '18, when you look at what that team did (or more appropriately didn't do) after Diana left, her accomplishment is even more spectacular.

Yes.

 

[jcoton56]

If he continues to work hard, the potential is there ;-)

 

[j66kicker]

No. Lebron is not the GOAT of the NBA.

No, LaBron is the diva of the NBA

Case closed.

You could make a very similar video pulling random statistics that bode in Lebron's favor too. I don't think there's anything cut and dry about the debate...different players and different arguments for each one. Choosing one over the other comes down to what accomplishments you value more, or just who you like more. .

I don't think it's even close, or that championships, points scored, defensive POY, etc., are "random" stats. What's funny to me is Kobe always trying to insert himself into the "debate." To me there's not even a discussion - it's MJ all the way:

6 NBA Finals
6 NBA Championships
6 NBA Finals MVPs

 

[Orangutan]

And while DT '03 likely did have a stronger supporting cast than LBJ '18, when you look at what that team did (or more appropriately didn't do) after Diana left, her accomplishment is even more spectacular.

Remember what happened to the Cavs after LeBron took his talents to South Beach? Would you bet against the same thing happening again in the event LeBron leaves this offseason?

 

[CocoHusky]

Wow, I am impressed that a very light-hearted joke has turned into this thread. It's just lacking a @triaddukefan meme (or is it .gif, I get those confused) to make it complete.

Settle down my children. So often women athletes are compared to men. I was just enjoying a fun opportunity to do the reverse, not entirely seriously. And while DT '03 likely did have a stronger supporting cast than LBJ '18, when you look at what that team did (or more appropriately didn't do) after Diana left, her accomplishment is even more spectacular.

I haven't read anything to make me think that ANYONE was taking you seriously. You mentioned LeBron James!

 

[JordyG]

That certainly is the narrative Lebron wants to have out there. As prodigous a talent as he is, he constant need to be not just the center of it, but all of it, is both annoying and dreary.

You harp on his constant need to be the center of things. Yet, whether he has a constant "need" to be that fulcrum (which is debatable) he nonetheless, is the constant center of things.

Larry Bird once said if he wanted to have fun he'd rather play with LeBron, if he wanted to win championships, he'd rather play with Kobe. This was well before LeBron became this last second, clutch shooter who demands the ball in tough circumstances. Something he didn't learn until his 30's.

The fact is LeBron, at an age where many players start to fade is putting up number equal to players like Kobe in their prime. The fact is this guy is a freak of nature who at 6'8" and over 250 lbs (closer to 260-265) never gets injured, never misses games and has taken teams like this current Cavs to his 8th straight final. Something few others have done, all of which played with Bill Russell's Celtics. Since he's entered the league he has never sat out for more than 15% of a season, which is unprecedented. He has never missed a playoff game. The only other players in the history of the sport that have played a higher percentage of their teams games during the regular season are Stockton and Malone. Many games LeBron missed were foisted on him by his coach as rest. Something Malone has noted didn't occur in his day. No other player has taken as many meagerly talented teams to the finals as had LeBron. Among active players no one has gone to the FT line more than James. Some may say it's because he complains to the refs so much. Yet so did Shaq, Barry and a host of others. In fact many note that, just like Shaq, many fouls aren't called because his size and strength means he doesn't physically react to fouls the same as others.

Yes, I agree, he is a prodigious talent. One that knows he is under constant scrutiny. With never a hint of scandal or personal controversy, who decided in this age of media bombardment that he would take control of his narrative and not let the media do it. Who has seen throughout history what happens when athletes let the media set the narrative.

 

[bballnut90]

No, LaBron is the diva of the NBA




I don't think it's even close, or that championships, points scored, defensive POY, etc., are "random" stats. What's funny to me is Kobe always trying to insert himself into the "debate." To me there's not even a discussion - it's MJ all the way:

6 NBA Finals
6 NBA Championships
6 NBA Finals MVPs

Here's a quick summary for Lebron:
15 seasons played
9 NBA Finals, including 8 straight
3 NBA Titles
3 NBA Finals MVPS
4 League MVP awards
12x First Team All-NBA
6x NBA All-Defensive team
Has finished top 3 in MVP voting 9 of the last 10 seasons

In the playoffs:
1st all time in career points by a wide margin (Jordan is 2nd)
6th all time in career rebounds (Jordan is not in the top 25)
3rd all time in career assists (Jordan is 10th)
1st all time in career steals (Jordan is 3rd)


Team results:
After he joined Cleveland, they went from being 17-65 to 35-47.
When he left Cleveland, they went from 61-21 to 19-63
The year he came to Miami, they improved from 47-35 to 58-24
When he left Miami, they went from 54-28 to 37-45
When he came back to Cleveland, they went from 33-49 to 53-29

Keep in mind, Lebron is just 33 years old. At the same age, Michael was competing for his 4th title...just like Lebron is. Michael also never faced opponents the caliber of the Warriors. The three Warrior teams he's faced in the finals were 67-15, 67-15, and 73-9.


I do agree Kobe does not belong in this discussion at all.

 

[bballnut90]

Remember what happened to the Cavs after LeBron took his talents to South Beach? Would you bet against the same thing happening again in the event LeBron leaves this offseason?

If Lebron jumps ship, Cavs are going to be just miserable next year. UCONN definitely "struggled" relative to previous years without DT, but the dropoff Cleveland faces without LBJ is far greater than what UCONN experienced. I'll admit, 2005 was ugly for UCONN standards. The next year in 2006 they came within a missed shot of making the Final Four, and in 2007 they had a #1 seed (something Diana's team couldn't accomplish her senior year). The following year Maya came and UCONN soared to new heights.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

You harp on his constant need to be the center of things. Yet, whether he has a constant "need" to be that fulcrum (which is debatable) he nonetheless, is the constant center of things.

Larry Bird once said if he wanted to have fun he'd rather play with LeBron, if he wanted to win championships, he'd rather play with Kobe. This was well before LeBron became this last second, clutch shooter who demands the ball in tough circumstances. Something he didn't learn until his 30's.

The fact is LeBron, at an age where many players start to fade is putting up number equal to players like Kobe in their prime. The fact is this guy is a freak of nature who at 6'8" and over 250 lbs (closer to 260-265) never gets injured, never misses games and has taken teams like this current Cavs to his 8th straight final. Something few others have done, all of which played with Bill Russell's Celtics. Since he's entered the league he has never sat out for more than 15% of a season, which is unprecedented. He has never missed a playoff game. The only other players in the history of the sport that have played a higher percentage of their teams games during the regular season are Stockton and Malone. Many games LeBron missed were foisted on him by his coach as rest. Something Malone has noted didn't occur in his day. No other player has taken as many meagerly talented teams to the finals as had LeBron. Among active players no one has gone to the FT line more than James. Some may say it's because he complains to the refs so much. Yet so did Shaq, Barry and a host of others. In fact many note that, just like Shaq, many fouls aren't called because his size and strength means he doesn't physically react to fouls the same as others.

Yes, I agree, he is a prodigious talent. One that knows he is under constant scrutiny. With never a hint of scandal or personal controversy, who decided in this age of media bombardment that he would take control of his narrative and not let the media do it. Who has seen throughout history what happens when athletes let the media set the narrative.

Jeepers, creepers, can two lines of text be harping. He made the Cleveland Cavs his whim toy and he'll leave it a mess at the end of this season. It's a flaw.

 

[Vowelguy]

I haven't read anything to make me think that ANYONE was taking you seriously. You mentioned LeBron James!

Yeah I must be imagining all those posts detailing LBJ's point-by-point accomplishments and comparing them to DT.

 

[JordyG]

Jeepers, creepers, can two lines of text be harping. He made the Cleveland Cavs his whim toy and he'll leave it a mess at the end of this season. It's a flaw.

In actuality he's made Cleveland relevant in BB when they really shoudn't be. So far by my count he's taken two highly mediocre Cleveland teams to the NBA finals when without him they wouldn't have been .500 teams. I can't name a single player that has done that. He has won that city a championship, returning to the team after the owner said some pretty derogatory things about him. Why aren't you on Durant who left his team for one that had won 73 games the year before? That's a flawed player with thin skin. The truth is Cleveland would be even more of a mess without him. By my reckoning they wuld have been a lottery team every year he'd have stayed in Miami. Trust Gilbert and his "process" much?

Yeah, I think LeBron is a flawed person, but not for the reasons you and many others cite him for.

 

[stamfordhusky]

You could make a very similar video pulling random statistics that bode in Lebron's favor too. I don't think there's anything cut and dry about the debate...different players and different arguments for each one. Choosing one over the other comes down to what accomplishments you value more, or just who you like more. .

True. As an old-school guy, I've always favored Michael Jordan in this debate, but after this year, I think it's clear that Lebron is the best ever. Jordan had FAR better talent around him throughout the majority of his career. Some may recall that the year MJ took his temporary retirement, the Bulls went from 57 wins with Jordan to 55 wins the next year with no MJ. That gives you some idea of the talent he was surrounded with.

 

[stamfordhusky]

In actuality he's made Cleveland relevant in BB when they really shoudn't be. So far by my count he's taken two highly mediocre Cleveland teams to the NBA finals when without him they wouldn't have been .500 teams. I can't name a single player that has done that. He has won that city a championship, returning to the team after the owner said some pretty derogatory things about him. Why aren't you on Durant who left his team for one that had won 73 games the year before? That's a flawed player with thin skin. The truth is Cleveland would be even more of a mess without him. By my reckoning they wuld have been a lottery team every year he'd have stayed in Miami. Trust Gilbert and his "process" much?

Yeah, I think LeBron is a flawed person, but not for the reasons you and many others cite him for.

Agree 100%