Is It The Beginning Of The End For The WNBA?

[Aluminny69]

Food for Thought:

Is It The Beginning Of The End For The WNBA?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Doubtful, per se. I think in general that the gay and lesbian community is a much larger proportion of the fan base for the "W" than for Women's College Basketball, based on eyeball evaluations, although I admit the only WNBA games I have attended were in NY and Phoenix. I would argue that it is a noticeable percentage of the Women's College Basketball fan base at some schools, and not so much at others.

As the article suggests, this is probably a more practical initiative at this time than a few years ago, I have certainly heard of individual teams in the W doing promotions for the LGBT community.

The problem is very general and actually just as much a problem for college teams as for the pros - a lack of interest as denoted by a lack of bodies in the seats. If the WNBA attendance is flat at 7,500 or so a game, um, in 2013 only seven college teams averaged that much, with the NCAA D1 average being around 1500. And I don't think the "average" televised WCBB game does any greater audience than the WNBA games. The difference is that colleges have Title IX issues, a number of intangible benefits from intercollegiate sports, etc. that provide enough incentive to support a team that generates revenue but doesn't "make" money. For the WNBA owners, making money is the bottom line.

 

[Striper69]

I think the WNBA showed that they have a lot of guts by doing this. The subject of sexuality is still pretty taboo in our society. Not many have gone public with their leanings. Griner came out alright and she still has a lot of fans.
It's only another way to get fans to games. If it brings more of the LGBT community then I say it's great. It can only help.
I think what they really need is more quality TV coverage.

No, I don't think it's the beginning of the end. It's just getter better and better every season.

 

[ThisJustIn]

“They’re recognizing the need to embrace this fan base for its future,” says Swangard. Maybe that narrow base of fans can pull the league through. If not, the clock is ticking."

Clock is ticking on women's college basketball, too. Maybe they should rip the cover off of what's already "quietly" acknowledged: there is a strong gay population that 1) follows the sport 2) plays the sport 3) coaches the sport.

Some will say "who cares"? Well, clearly the homophobes care. And, clearly the coaches and players who are gay care, or else they'd be just as free (or private) about their personal life as a hetero would be. As for fans? Perhaps being publicly acknowledged/marketed to will bring folks out -- but the huge numbers at the beginning of the W can be attributed to the "cool" factor the league had -- it was THE social thing to do. It was hip. The drop off in attendance can be attributed to many things -- but the "cool" factor diminished and those in it for the social scene -- not the basketball -- disappeared.

Every year the death knell of the W is sounded. Maybe one year it will be true. But how well was the NBA doing 18 years into ITS career? And it didn't have the NBA, NFL or MLB to fight against...

 

[Striper69]

It probably was the "cool" thing to do to a small number but I don't remember anything about it. It was new and I frankly didn't think the women would be interesting to watch.

It wasn't until Griner came on the scene that I even watched WBB on TV.

Going to EDD's games at Delaware sealed the deal for me. That girl can play as well as any guy (of course I already had said that to everybody about Maya). Seeing EDD in person was somehow different.

Men have to get over their prejudices for the game to really flourish. IMO

 

[blackbird]

With Griner coming out and our culture becoming more accepting, it would be silly for the WNBA not to do something like this.

 

[easttexastrash]

I wonder if the WNBA secretly hopes that more players will come out. I suspect that there are a number of very high profile players who still are not out and having them come out would certainly shake things up a little. The WNBA is presumed to have a high number of lesbian players but having them come out could certainly bring in more GLBT fans.

 

[intlzncster]

It probably was the "cool" thing to do to a small number but I don't remember anything about it. It was new and I frankly didn't think the women would be interesting to watch.

It wasn't until Griner came on the scene that I even watched WBB on TV.

Going to EDD's games at Delaware sealed the deal for me. That girl can play as well as any guy (of course I already had said that to everybody about Maya). Seeing EDD in person was somehow different.

Men have to get over their prejudices for the game to really flourish. IMO

Really unlucky you missed DT in college. Still the most fun player I've ever watched. There was nothing, nothing, like DT killing TN.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I wonder if the WNBA secretly hopes that more players will come out. I suspect that there are a number of very high profile players who still are not out and having them come out would certainly shake things up a little. The WNBA is presumed to have a high number of lesbian players but having them come out could certainly bring in more GLBT fans.

First, Griner is not the only player who is "out". Not currently and not in the past. Sue Wicks was one of the first; Pokey among the coaches, for example, is out whether she officially announced it or not.

Second, while I'm sure there are a number of lesbian players in the W, I'm not sure it is as high as some might think. Higher than the average population, certainly, but who knows really since many who are straight don't parade their private lives in public either (and since it is Women's Basketball, for the most part the media isn't trying to find out who has the hunkiest guy).

And finally, I hope you are not suggesting that those who are not out should be pressured to come out in order to bring in more fans? I don't think you meant that, but it almost sounds that way.

 

[RadyLady]

I think the WNBA showed that they have a lot of guts by doing this. The subject of s e xuality is still pretty taboo in our society. Not many have gone public with their leanings. Griner came out alright and she still has a lot of fans.
It's only another way to get fans to games. If it brings more of the LGBT community then I say it's great. It can only help.
I think what they really need is more quality TV coverage.

No, I don't think it's the beginning of the end. It's just getter better and better every season.

Given what I see on TV, and advertising, in music, in concerts, I don't think s e xuality is taboo at all. All forms of media are rife with blatant examples.

Except on this board where you can't even write the word sex without it being automatically edited

Let me amend that by saying that although I believe the above to be true for 'hetero' I believe that it is homo s e xuality is very much taboo and frankly, very much feared.

 

[intlzncster]

Given what I see on TV, and advertising, in music, in concerts, I don't think s e xuality is taboo at all. All forms of media are rife with blatant examples.

Except on this board where you can't even write the word s e x without it being automatically edited

Let me amend that by saying that although I believe the above to be true for 'hetero' I believe that it is homo s e xuality is very much taboo and frankly, very much feared.

At the end of the day, it's only as taboo as a player feels comfortable revealing about herself (if that makes any sense). I think in this day and age, especially in women's sports (as opposed to men's sports), it's perfectly acceptable culturally. It's up to the individual if they feel like putting something personal and private into the public arena.

 

[RadyLady]

At the end of the day, it's only as taboo as a player feels comfortable revealing about herself (if that makes any sense). I think in this day and age, especially in women's sports (as opposed to men's sports), it's perfectly acceptable culturally. It's up to the individual if they feel like putting something personal and private into the public arena.

Dude, I wasn't speaking specifically about sports for either of my points. I am speaking in general, and in this days and age, given the unsubstantiated bias' against homosexuality,

Granted, there are many people in certain areas of the country who have no issue with their LGBT friends and neighbors, and thank heavens, we are starting to see the pendulum swinging in this direction in other areas for whom this issue has simply not been addressed or adversaries have been overcome (or overturned in court). These people "get it". It's no big deal. It isn't.

However, and unfortunately, as with the issue of color and and with the issue of religion, we likely will never see universal acceptance of LGBT simply because some leopards cannot change their spots (or some people refuse to change their views, no matter how much evidence and facts you show them), and as such, some folks will feel comfortable "coming out", and others will keep their personal lives close to their chest, male or female.

That is just the way of things.

As to the WNBA marketing to the LGBT community...I just don't know what to think one way or another. I can see pluses and minuses on both sides of the issue. I just like the games cause I like basketball.

 

[intlzncster]

Dude, I wasn't speaking specifically about sports for either of my points. I am speaking in general, and in this days and age, given the unsubstantiated bias' against homos e xuality,

I got that, I was just swinging it back around to the topic at hand regarding the W.

However, and unfortunately, as with the issue of color and and with the issue of religion, we likely will never see universal acceptance of LGBT simply because some leopards cannot change their spots (or some people refuse to change their views, no matter how much evidence and facts you show them),

That's the way of it regarding a lot of things in the world. Human's can never be whitewashed, not matter how much we want to (or they should be in certain instances). So you keep doing what you can do to change things, and the rest? C'est la vie.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I wonder if the WNBA secretly hopes that more players will come out. I suspect that there are a number of very high profile players who still are not out and having them come out would certainly shake things up a little. The WNBA is presumed to have a high number of lesbian players but having them come out could certainly bring in more GLBT fans.

There are a lot of WNBA players who are out. As far as LGBT fans in WCBB and the WNBA, it's really only the L from that acronym that is heavily into WCBB and softball. I'm a gay man and I enjoy WBB, but I prefer MBB. My favorite sports in order are MCBB, CFB, WCBB and college baseball as a distant 4th. I'm not a big pro sports fan. There has always been a large lesbian presence at women's sporting events, so it's good business for the WNBA to try to encourage their presence at games. LGBT people tend to be very loyal to those that support us and I doubt many straight WCBB or WNBA fans are homophobic. It's certainly no secret that a high percentage of WBB players are lesbians or that a high percentage of fans are lesbians. The most successful teams probably have a slightly lower percentage of fan numbers, but it is still substantial. What say the straight people out there? Isn't it obvious?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

There are a lot of WNBA players who are out. As far as LGBT fans in WCBB and the WNBA, it's really only the L from that acronym that is heavily into WCBB and softball. I'm a gay man and I enjoy WBB, but I prefer MBB. My favorite sports in order are MCBB, CFB, WCBB and college baseball as a distant 4th. I'm not a big pro sports fan. There has always been a large lesbian presence at women's sporting events, so it's good business for the WNBA to try to encourage their presence at games. LGBT people tend to be very loyal to those that support us and I doubt many straight WCBB or WNBA fans are homophobic. It's certainly no secret that a high percentage of WBB players are lesbians or that a high percentage of fans are lesbians. The most successful teams probably have a slightly lower percentage of fan numbers, but it is still substantial. What say the straight people out there? Isn't it obvious?

I stick by a point I made above, while there are lesbian fans for every program, and a higher percentage of fans than occurs in the general population, I would counter that the number for college teams is not as substantial as you imply. For the W, yes.

I think you are correct that the more popular a program - in general - the smaller the percentage. But, you have other significant groups at college sports including alumni (this is a bigger contingent at RU, for example, than you would think, both former pep band members and folks who were in school during top years of the program); old folks (a shrinking contingent) that tried it and liked it for amusement; youth and families; University professors, etc. Although the president of the RU fan club was a gay male for a couple of terms, in general the membership was primarily older hetero couples.

My wife and I followed RU around for many years, attending games at I think we calculated something like 70 arenas. There were crowds where there seemed to be a more significant lesbian presence and crowds where there were not - obviously guessing in any case. It doesn't seem a large percentage at either WBB or softball here in AZ, although perhaps more-so for Volleyball (which draws close to as well as WBB, both between 1,000 and 2,000 I would say).

 

[01Neaggrad02]

BREAKING NEWS!!!! P-TOWN TO GET WNBA...... Reported that RENE PORTLAND HAS AGREED TO BE THE HEAD COACH.

I think the WNBA showed that they have a lot of guts by doing this. The subject of s e xuality is still pretty taboo in our society. Not many have gone public with their leanings. Griner came out alright and she still has a lot of fans.
It's only another way to get fans to games. If it brings more of the LGBT community then I say it's great. It can only help.
I think what they really need is more quality TV coverage.

No, I don't think it's the beginning of the end. It's just getter better and better every season.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

BREAKING NEWS!!!! P-TOWN TO GET WNBA. Reported that RENE PORTLAND HAS AGREED TO BE THE HEAD COACH.

LOL, if I never hear that name again it will be too soon. If not P-town, then Northampton.

 

[RadyLady]

There are a lot of WNBA players who are out. As far as LGBT fans in WCBB and the WNBA, it's really only the L from that acronym that is heavily into WCBB and softball. I'm a gay man and I enjoy WBB, but I prefer MBB. My favorite sports in order are MCBB, CFB, WCBB and college baseball as a distant 4th. I'm not a big pro sports fan. There has always been a large lesbian presence at women's sporting events, so it's good business for the WNBA to try to encourage their presence at games. LGBT people tend to be very loyal to those that support us and I doubt many straight WCBB or WNBA fans are homophobic. It's certainly no secret that a high percentage of WBB players are lesbians or that a high percentage of fans are lesbians. The most successful teams probably have a slightly lower percentage of fan numbers, but it is still substantial. What say the straight people out there? Isn't it obvious?

I have no idea really, and for a simple reason. I am straight, but I live in a world where many many friends and associates are gay (using a general term). I sometimes get teased because I am oblivious to the sexual orientation of most of them, yet I have friends who tell me that it a good thing because to be my friend, sexual orientation doesn't matter. Never has.

So these questions about who attends games, seriously, I really couldn't tell ya, because I don't care.

That sounds harsh, but I don't mean it that way.

 

[intlzncster]

LOL, if I never hear that name again it will be too soon. If not P-town, then Northampton.

The last thing I can imagine in Noho is a WNBA team. OK, not the last, but it's right up there.

 

[Striper69]

Given what I see on TV, and advertising, in music, in concerts, I don't think s e xuality is taboo at all. All forms of media are rife with blatant examples.

Except on this board where you can't even write the word s e x without it being automatically edited

Let me amend that by saying that although I believe the above to be true for 'hetero' I believe that it is homo s e xuality is very much taboo and frankly, very much feared.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sex is marketed very heavily by the media etc.

 

[Striper69]

I have no idea really, and for a simple reason. I am straight, but I live in a world where many many friends and associates are gay (using a general term). I sometimes get teased because I am oblivious to the s e xual orientation of most of them, yet I have friends who tell me that it a good thing because to be my friend, s e xual orientation doesn't matter. Never has.

So these questions about who attends games, seriously, I really couldn't tell ya, because I don't care.

That sounds harsh, but I don't mean it that way.

I don't really worry about the player's or the audience's orientation either. I can't really tell by looking at them. LOL

I just think the women play basketball pretty good and I like watching them.

 

[svetbird]

Yes the WNBA is going to fold because they are taping into a large untapped market that has become finally socially acceptable. I don't get this article at all. I think it is a great move. Somehow I don't think many homophobes are watching the WNBA anyway. so its not like they are losing fans.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Yes the WNBA is going to fold because they are taping into a large untapped market that has become finally socially acceptable. I don't get this article at all. I think it is a great move. Somehow I don't think many homophobes are watching the WNBA anyway. so its not like they are losing fans.

Exactly; that was my point. The WNBA does not attract a group of fans that will be homophobic/heteros e xist, so there is really no negative in pursuing the lesbian market. It's no different than businesses advertising on urban radio stations or on particular TV shows that appeal to one demographic or another. It's smart business.

 

[Adesmar123]

Food for Thought:

Is It The Beginning Of The End For The WNBA?

No, they are probably about 1/3 of the way through. It depends how you define "end" though. If you define "end" as a substantive restructuring then yes 1/2 way through.

 

[Adesmar123]

I have no idea really, and for a simple reason. I am straight, but I live in a world where many many friends and associates are gay (using a general term). I sometimes get teased because I am oblivious to the s e xual orientation of most of them, yet I have friends who tell me that it a good thing because to be my friend, s e xual orientation doesn't matter. Never has.

Isn't that the way its supposed to be?