Is Griner best ever center? Geno responds....

[EricLA]

I think now you can answer the original question as an emphatic "no". And this is not to take anything away from Brit, but she was simply overwhelmed by the stronger, more experienced Aussie centers, and she wasn't even facing Cambage. Griner even picked up an offensive foul while the ball was completely at the other end of the court as she was trying to establish her position.

Tina, Candace Dupree and Nneka all played better than Griner - on both offense and defense. Brit is simply not strong enough to keep elite centers out of the paint and was repeatedly pushed around and scored against. She did have a couple of nice defensive plays and one monster block, but due to foul trouble that she was incapable of managing, she could not stay on the court.

Again, I love Brit. She has a long and most likely very illustrious career ahead of her on Team USA and in her career wherever she plays. But can we please stop with the "best ever"? It's a disservice to her. She will grow into her game and be as good as she can be!

For the record, Brit has a long career in front of her. There were many great centers to come before her and I'm sure some great ones will come after as well. She's an immensely likable young lady who is easy to root for. I'm ok with saying she's "really good" and has a chance to be great.

 

[UcMiami]

I think now you can answer the original question as an emphatic "no". And this is not to take anything away from Brit, but she was simply overwhelmed by the stronger, more experienced Aussie centers, and she wasn't even facing Cambage. Griner even picked up an offensive foul while the ball was completely at the other end of the court as she was trying to establish her position.

Tina, Candace Dupree and Nneka all played better than Griner - on both offense and defense. Brit is simply not strong enough to keep elite centers out of the paint and was repeatedly pushed around and scored against. She did have a couple of nice defensive plays and one monster block, but due to foul trouble that she was incapable of managing, she could not stay on the court.

Again, I love Brit. She has a long and most likely very illustrious career ahead of her on Team USA and in her career wherever she plays. But can we please stop with the "best ever"? It's a disservice to her. She will grow into her game and be as good as she can be!

For the record, Brit has a long career in front of her. There were many great centers to come before her and I'm sure some great ones will come after as well. She's an immensely likable young lady who is easy to root for. I'm ok with saying she's "really good" and has a chance to be great.

Eric - I think this is a little unfair - Griner had a terrible game in her first international competition semi-final. I am sure that Spain is not looking forward to Griner atoning for her bad performance. And during the WNBA she seems to more than hold her own against some of the best centers in the world and I do not think anyone including Sylvia Fowles was questioning her strength!
This is an example of why experience on National teams is so important to the program's continued success - Bird is certainly not the best point guard in the world anymore in league play, but she is very experienced and on the national team she may still retain that title.

 

[j66kicker]

This is kinda funny. Until today, as soon as she got over to Turkey Griner has been so awesome that she has us asking, "Best center ever?" Even all the player interviews after yesterday's game were full of , "Brittney this", "They couldn't deal with Brittney", etc. She has a down game today and now she's dogmeat. We didn't feel the same about DT and Maya the other day when they went a combined 4 for 23 or whatever. They have had a chance to prove themselves for many years and we know what they're made of. Griner is young and she will have that same chance. IMO, so far so good...

 

[easttexastrash]

I think now you can answer the original question as an emphatic "no". And this is not to take anything away from Brit, but she was simply overwhelmed by the stronger, more experienced Aussie centers, and she wasn't even facing Cambage. Griner even picked up an offensive foul while the ball was completely at the other end of the court as she was trying to establish her position.

Tina, Candace Dupree and Nneka all played better than Griner - on both offense and defense. Brit is simply not strong enough to keep elite centers out of the paint and was repeatedly pushed around and scored against. She did have a couple of nice defensive plays and one monster block, but due to foul trouble that she was incapable of managing, she could not stay on the court.

Again, I love Brit. She has a long and most likely very illustrious career ahead of her on Team USA and in her career wherever she plays. But can we please stop with the "best ever"? It's a disservice to her. She will grow into her game and be as good as she can be!

For the record, Brit has a long career in front of her. There were many great centers to come before her and I'm sure some great ones will come after as well. She's an immensely likable young lady who is easy to root for. I'm ok with saying she's "really good" and has a chance to be great.

One bad game proves nothing. DT and Maya went 4-23 in the exhibition loss to France. Does that make them horrible shooters and no longer considered two of the best in the world?

 

[EricLA]

One bad game proves nothing. DT and Maya went 4-23 in the exhibition loss to France. Does that make them horrible shooters and no longer considered two of the best in the world?

My point was she was pushed all over the court and completely overwhelmed. It had zero to do with a poor shooting night. She got no shots because she was not capable of getting any position in the post vs. the better Australian centers. Simple as that.

She has the potential to be really really good. She already has grown in leaps and bounds in the league. But greatest ever? way way too soon to say that. It's silly really.

As Geno said, she's unique due to her size. She has a chance to be special when her career is near done and it's looked back on. But she's only 2 years out of college and in the pros. It's like looking at Diamond Deshields and saying she's the greatest college player ever. Really? Let's wait and see how things pan. Let's see how Brit develops. She may well end up being the greatest center ever, and if she earns a moniker like that in the years to come, she will certainly deserve it, but it's hardly a criticism of her to say that at 24 or so years old she's certainly not the best ever.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I appreciate that people want to ignore what Geno was saying, but it's kinda silly to do so. He did NOT say that winning college championships made you great. He said look back at the END of the career and then assess.

Griner has great talent and seems to be a quick learner. In today's game, Australia deliberately targeted her, hoping to get her into foul trouble. And they succeeded. Said BG after the game about what she learned:

Play thorough the calls. You can complain all you want to the refs, it’s not going to do anything, so just play through it, try to adjust, play your game. Sometimes it just doesn’t go your way.

Each level it gets tougher. When I got to the league last season it was a rude awakening. This season I definitely did better. I knew what I needed to work on. Now playing on the world stage, it just goes up in intensity, it goes up in what’s expected from you every day. It’s just going to make me better. I’m glad I do have this learning curve. I’m glad I am young so I can be around a lot longer.

 

[UConnCat]

This quote from Geno says a lot, about BG's struggles last night, Tina stepping up and why Nneka played a lot of key minutes last night. A big difference between BG and Tina last night was experience on the world championship stage.

Tonight we kind of had an idea of how physical Australia was going to be with Brittney, and this is her first time through this. So, I’m not sure she’s had enough experience playing against these kinds of players on a regular basis, and Tina has. So, tonight you saw the experience that Tina has, and she played a lot of minutes, too. She played 31 minutes. Tina’s doing a lot of little things that maybe don’t even show on the boxscore. Some of the little things that she’s doing, whether it’s getting through a screen or making a pass to somebody, tipping the ball, kind of like Nneka (Ogwumike). Sometimes these guys do things that don’t end up big on the stat sheet, but they keep possessions alive, they get big buckets when the other guys are making a run. I’m not surprised, but I couldn’t be happier for Tina.

 

[JellyBean]

Is Griner the best center ever? Nope. She has the potential to get there but she is not the best center ever. To me, Lisa Leslie and Janice Lawrence Braxton were better than Brit. We all know Lisa Leslie's resume. Janice was on Lisa's level. She was unstoppable. Her offensive game, especially as a traditional post player, was fluid. The lady was equally solid on the defensive end. She, along with other great Louisiana Tech legends, was the reason why LA Tech was so good during the early part of the 1980s.

 

[Icebear]

Griner still does not seem to understand that low post D is largely played with foot movement and leg strength. She relies on her athleticism to recover using her length but that has risks.

 

[easttexastrash]

My point was she was pushed all over the court and completely overwhelmed. It had zero to do with a poor shooting night. She got no shots because she was not capable of getting any position in the post vs. the better Australian centers. Simple as that.

She has the potential to be really really good. She already has grown in leaps and bounds in the league. But greatest ever? way way too soon to say that. It's silly really.

As Geno said, she's unique due to her size. She has a chance to be special when her career is near done and it's looked back on. But she's only 2 years out of college and in the pros. It's like looking at Diamond Deshields and saying she's the greatest college player ever. Really? Let's wait and see how things pan. Let's see how Brit develops. She may well end up being the greatest center ever, and if she earns a moniker like that in the years to come, she will certainly deserve it, but it's hardly a criticism of her to say that at 24 or so years old she's certainly not the best ever.

What is amazing is that she is already in the GOAT conversation at the age of 23. I'll take it.

 

[UcMiami]

Griner still does not seem to understand that low post D is largely played with foot movement and leg strength. She relies on her athleticism to recover using her length but that has risks.

I agree that Griner's defensive footwork is not fully developed (though she is not a push over) but her offensive footwork is really good. I really think the analysis of the Australia game and projecting it as a statement about Griner's game is a little harsh. She was THE defensive demon all year in the WNBA and made Sylvia look like a college player in the finals. Is she young - yes. Is she a defensive force - yes. Did she have a foul plagued game - yes. Have other great players had similar games - yes. In fact - I would say her WNBA teammate Taylor had a really terrible game as well - partly for the same reason - fouls.

 

[Striper69]

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year she could be in the conversation as "Best Ever". The Spark will be back competing with Minny and the Mercury too.

 

[Justavisitor]

Is Griner the best center ever? Nope. She has the potential to get there but she is not the best center ever. To me, Lisa Leslie and Janice Lawrence Braxton were better than Brit. We all know Lisa Leslie's resume. Janice was on Lisa's level. She was unstoppable. Her offensive game, especially as a traditional post player, was fluid. The lady was equally solid on the defensive end. She, along with other great Louisiana Tech legends, was the reason why LA Tech was so good during the early part of the 1980s.

Lisa Leslie. Yep!

 

[Buzzyboy]

She is the best center I have ever seen in terms of talent and ability. But, Geno, as many others do, reserves judgement based on championships. So, in other words, check back with me in 15 years.

After Monday, BG will have NCAA, WNBA and WC titles. Not a bad start for a 23-year old.

I know she was playing by herself to win the above mentioned titles. To say that SHE won the titles really is kind of bullc**p since she had Odyssey Sims and some other pretty talented players helping her with that NCAA title, she played like garbage the following year and eliminated the possibility of back to back titles when she played horrifically against Louisville despite Sim's stellar performance. Then she WON an WNBA title while playing with Diana Taurasi who many consider the best player of all time in women's basketball along with some other very talented teammates and yet it wasn't Phoenix but GRINER who won that WNBA title????? Then she's on a super all star team with the best of the best in women's basketball and again GRINER won the World title????? The point of view that an individual player does or doesn't win titles by him or herself is totally wacky. Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, Barry Sanders and many other superb athletes who may be considered the best of all time in their respective sports by scads of people NEVER WON TITLES and so in your mind, these players are less than they might have been??????????? Very bad argument! Griner is outstanding but she was a part of championships, not anymore than that.

 

[meyers7]

Anyway, back to the original debate, I don't think she is the best center ever yet. I think she could be the best center ever, and when it's all said and done, I think she will be.

I think that was Geno's and pretty much everyone here's point.

 

[Striper69]

Yup, she's pretty good. She's not Maya. She's closer to Bria.

Jennifer Schlott is/was as good as Sims...

or better.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Not really a fair choice as I would choose DT and ______ over any other player and ______ in college where you fill the blanks with any combination of two players from quite a list: Griner, Charles, Fowles, Paris, Leslie, and probably others like Moore, Parker, EDD. Except for that flame out against ND, Diana's fire was such that she refuses to lose and she makes whoever she plays with burn with that same fire.
There are other players that exhibit a similar fire including Moore, but it just never quite reaches the DT level.
I don't think I have ever seen quite such a late game display as the Uconn win against TX in the 2003 FF.

I'll say again that if I had a choice of Diana or Maya, it would be Maya. Apples and oranges, I guess. Diana is more demonstrative on the court but I think Maya is every bit as efficient if not more so. I happen to prefer the way Maya plays and her on court persona and the results aren't too shabby. It seems everyone is an afterthought when it comes to Dianna, at least with some people but I don't think Maya takes a back seat to anyone who's ever played the game.

 

[meyers7]

Then she WON an WNBA title while playing with Diana Taurasi who many consider the best player of all time in women's basketball along with some other very talented teammates and yet it wasn't Phoenix but GRINER who won that WNBA title????? Then she's on a super all star team with the best of the best in women's basketball and again GRINER won the World title????? The point of view that an individual player does or doesn't win titles by him or herself is totally wacky.

I don't believe ETT said Griner won the titles all by herself. You are making a mountain out of a molehill there. Chillax.

 

[UcMiami]

I'll say again that if I had a choice of Diana or Maya, it would be Maya. Apples and oranges, I guess. Diana is more demonstrative on the court but I think Maya is every bit as efficient if not more so. I happen to prefer the way Maya plays and her on court persona and the results aren't too shabby. It seems everyone is an afterthought when it comes to Dianna, at least with some people but I don't think Maya takes a back seat to anyone who's ever played the game.

The question was a combo of two players and the response has more to do with position than Maya v. DT ' greatness - Diana is by nature of being a guard a better facilitator on a team than Maya and such would have a high impact on the combo. And while they are both great motivators and have an inner fire, I think that is an area that DT is just a little stronger than Maya. And in college they both won titles with stacked teams, but DT was also able to win her last two years after much of that talent graduated and Maya was not able to win her last year when the same happened - and I think that again speaks to the positions they play - Maya being a forward was not able to influence the outcome of the games as much as DT was as a guard.

 

[easttexastrash]

I don't believe ETT said Griner won the titles all by herself. You are making a mountain out of a molehill there. Chillax.

This

 

[easttexastrash]

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year she could be in the conversation as "Best Ever". The Spark will be back competing with Minny and the Mercury too.

I have to wonder why she was not invited to participate in USA basketball. I hope she turns out to be as good as you predict. The US could use to players that can play at the same level, or better, that BG does.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year she could be in the conversation as "Best Ever". The Spark will be back competing with Minny and the Mercury too.

Striper - by any chance, do you happen to be Hamson's agent?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year she could be in the conversation as "Best Ever". The Spark will be back competing with Minny and the Mercury too.

Assuming this post is not a low-flying sarcasm plane...

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year, she will not even be the best center on the Sparks.

 

[pap49cba]

Assuming this post is not a low-flying sarcasm plane...

If Jen Hamson plays in the WNBA next year, she will not even be the best center on the Sparks.

Yeah, but she's a pretty good volley ball player...

 

[UcMiami]

I have to wonder why she was not invited to participate in USA basketball. I hope she turns out to be as good as you predict. The US could use to players that can play at the same level, or better, that BG does.

I imagine she was never in the discussion for an invite as she is concentrating on volley ball this year. No idea if she ends up playing basketball - she was impressive in the NCAAs last year, but I think needs a few years of experience at a higher level before she is really in any conversations.