Is Cooley Worst Coach in BE??

[freescooter]

Neptune is horrendous. Look like a lesson in how to ruin a legacy program. I almost feel bad for Nova, but don’t.

See Olli, Kevin…

 

[boog204]

I put Cooley ahead of Neptune, English, and Holloway at this point. That doesn't mean that will remain as I think Holloway and English could be quite good, but they're not there yet. I know it's easy to dislike Cooley but I do think he's a good coach; a guy who took what was an average PC team and made them a fairly consistent NCAA team, and a guy who could make GTown relevant again.

 

[DogMania]

I don't understand the disrespect for Cooley, I think he's a very good coach who gets the most out of his players. This year, he's playing the hand he was dealt.

Until now, he's never been at a school whose name alone has any drawing power. In a couple years, he's going to have that program competing.

Wasn't sure where to chime in. I agree with your assessment. Cooley is one of those coaches that gets his players to work hard, has helped develope of few very good players and does more with less. At home he sure gets his share of upsets and often over ranked or higher ranked teams than his.

Gotta give him a year or two, assuming he has improved recruiting success at Georgetown, which is not a given.

As for Neptune, he belongs in the outer orbit of the BE coaching universe. Sorry couldn't resist.

And I'd put McDermott over Smart by a smidgen. He has a lot of success with teams that have a few very talented players, but often lacks depth. He's one of the best at game planning for his appointments and preparing his players to execute it. He's a coach I'd welcome here if Hurley was to move on, which is not happening any time soon. He'd likely be too old by that time.

As for Smart, similar to McDermott, he had a lot of success coaching up a mid-major program, not so much at his first high major program, a little more success in the NCAA tournament than McDermott (F4 with VCU), and gets his players to play hard and execute his system. I don't think he's as good with game prep for upcoming opponents compared to McDermott.

These two coaches are very good and have similar resumes. Let's see how they finish this season.

 

[DFW HOYA]

I bet that guy would turn down the interim assignment if given the chance to reconsider now. Probably killed any chance of ever being hired as a D1 headcoach in the future.

Matt Brady is a former HC at James Madison and Marist (career mark 211-186) with a good reputation. Not much he could have done with what he inherited.

As for recruiting "not a given" at Georgetown, well, yes, the program has some structural problems. It's not getting voted out of the Big East (sorry, PC) but it also doesn't have a magic wand to address 10-15 years of dysfunction. Should the university tighten admissions or considerably reduce the budget, this would also affect the trajectory.

 

[7774]

What an odd topic--have you seen the Georgetown roster this season?

Three returnees from a bad team last season (one starter (Heath), one doesn't play (Mutombo).
Two freshmen (one starts--Brumbaugh)
Four transfers (three start: Epps, Styles, Cook)
Five walk-ons, four had no prior Div. I experience and one with 3 mins. on the court in four years
A greenshirt

Othe than Epps, could you see any of these players starting at any other Big East team?

You lost to Holy Cross this year man. That roster's not good enough to beat Holy Cross?

Here are some other Cooley losses. These are all from year 7 or later, when his program was established and had talent.

2017-18: Lost to UMass and Rhode Island
2018-19: Lost to UMass again
2019-20: Lost to Pennsylvania, Long Beach State, College of Charlston, and Rhode Island again

Cooley was always able to get talent, so his teams at Providence should have been in the tournament. It would have been Neptune level malpractice if some of those teams missed. Most should have gotten higher seeds and done more in the NCAAs. In 2016 he had the POY in the conference in Kris Dunn, someone who was a lottery pick point guard, and ANOTHER first team player in Bentil. Went 10-8 in conference. Yuck.

 

[Fan1978]

I don't count DePaul since they may be beyond repair.

Hurley
Smart
McDermott
Holloway
Pitino
English
Mata
Miller
Neptune
Cooley
DePaul.


If you were drafting coaches, maybe you pick Cooley ahead of Neptune???

Smart has done so well at Marquette and they were/are a legit FF team with a healthy Kolek.

English keeping PC together without Hopkins, Miller doing a good job without Fremantle, Holloway and Mata have done well. Pitino is Pitino and McDermott can obviously coach.

Seems like Mova and Gtown are the two teams without an identity.

Put another way how many of the BE coaches would give you really bad vibes if they became HC at UConn?

This is a ridiculous question

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Pitino is #1

Is there such a thing as Post/Handle once removed?

 

[UConnJim]

Cooley is a decent coach. Top coach? Probably not, but he will be able to prove it at Georgetown. This year, I would have to believe that Georgetown/Cooley didn't want to completely flip the roster like Pitino did, so the key will be the portal this offseason. Cooley's last few years at Providence was driven by transfers, not freshmen.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

What an odd topic--have you seen the Georgetown roster this season?

Three returnees from a bad team last season (one starter (Heath), one doesn't play (Mutombo).
Two freshmen (one starts--Brumbaugh)
Four transfers (three start: Epps, Styles, Cook)
Five walk-ons, four had no prior Div. I experience and one with 3 mins. on the court in four years
A greenshirt

Othe than Epps, could you see any of these players starting at any other Big East team?

He's one of 3 first-year Big East coaches, right?

Who built the St John's roster?

Do you want to give him the credit he wants to take for Providence?

Matta, Miller, Neptune, and Holloway all improved their roster in year two. Smart somewhat played the hand he was dealt and somewhat stayed with it, with some pretty solid results.

Maybe it's fair not to judge Ed until next year. I'm happy that he's had a crummy season. We'll see.

I'm mostly mad at the DePaul guy who missed the layup that would have given the conference a shared cellar going into this weekend, with two single win teams. Does that make Cooley a better coach? I'm also mad at him for not beating TCU. He had that chance.

 

[runner11]

Cooley is a decent coach. Top coach? Probably not, but he will be able to prove it at Georgetown. This year, I would have to believe that Georgetown/Cooley didn't want to completely flip the roster like Pitino did, so the key will be the portal this offseason. Cooley's last few years at Providence was driven by transfers, not freshmen.

Cooley’s best feat was getting Cam to jump in the portal (and then fall outside his top 3)

 

[Huskybass]

Im not 100% sure thats all that bad. I quickly did the math so i may be wrong, but he was PC coach for ~12 years and won 3 NCAA games. I think PC had 1 win in the 12 years before Cooley.

3 NCAA Tournament wins in 18 years as a Head Coach isn't all the bad? How low are your standards? Thad Matta has 24 NCAA Tournament wins, in a handful more seasons. I'm not saying Cooley is the worst in the Big East, but his success in March is really underwhelming.

 

[UCfor3]

Pitino is #1

Not anymore he's not. This is a who would you draft now, not lifetime achievement award scenario by the OP.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I would take Cooley over half that list.

 

[Palatine]

The jury is out on Cooley. A lot of the Cooley love stems from him being loyal to his hometown. Cooley was considered a righteous dude. That got him a lot slack.

That is over and done. From here on out all that matters is his record. That's how he will be judged. The good news? Georgetown in a dumpster fire. No one there remembers the 1980s. If he can keep his head above water. Produce 20 win seasons, throw in a Sweet 16 run. He will have done enough to keep drawing his inflated salary.

He belongs in the middle to bottom of the list until he proves he belongs higher.

 

[Deepster]

Listing Cooley below English is ridiculous.

English was 34-29 at George Mason. He’s 19-11 at PC with Cooleys roster, 10-9 in conference. They beat Marquette and Creighton and who else? He has literally shown me nothing yet.

 

[BlueMAB]

Listing Cooley below English is ridiculous.

English was 34-29 at George Mason. He’s 19-11 at PC with Cooleys roster, 10-9 in conference. They beat Marquette and Creighton and who else? He has literally shown me nothing yet.

He did not have Cooley's roster. Don't care about your opinion on English, but Bryce Hopkins has missed the vast majority of the season. But don't let the facts get in the way.

 

[MJ1]

Either way, Hopkins wasn't his recruit. When he starts bringing in his own talent, he'll start making his case.

Shouldn’t he get credit for re-recruiting the friars that could have transferred after Colley left. After all, coaches have to re-recruit their own players every year now.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Listing Cooley below English is ridiculous.

English was 34-29 at George Mason. He’s 19-11 at PC with Cooleys roster, 10-9 in conference. They beat Marquette and Creighton and who else? He has literally shown me nothing yet.

English is already on record saying that Georgetown is his dream job so there's that.

 

[7774]

Shouldn’t he get credit for re-recruiting the friars that could have transferred after Colley left. After all, coaches have to re-recruit their own players every year now.

At the time neither Hopkins or Carter could transfer, so not really. I do give him huge credit for keeping Dual, even though he hasn’t been as good as was advertised.

 

[husky429]

Shouldn’t he get credit for re-recruiting the friars that could have transferred after Colley left. After all, coaches have to re-recruit their own players every year now.

Of course he should get credit. Doesn't mean he's proven himself as a high-major coach yet.

 

[Deepster]

He did not have Cooley's roster. Don't care about your opinion on English, but Bryce Hopkins has missed the vast majority of the season. But don't let the facts get in the way.

And I don’t care about your opinion on him either. And I'm well aware of Hopkins injury.

So far he’s done nothing and Cooley has.

 

[Palatine]

Listing Cooley below English is ridiculous.

English was 34-29 at George Mason. He’s 19-11 at PC with Cooleys roster, 10-9 in conference. They beat Marquette and Creighton and who else? He has literally shown me nothing yet.

English's winning percentage with Providence is .663%, albeit with Cooley recruits. Cooley produced a .613% with Pee Cee over a dozen years. I think that is within English's grasp.

Cooley was 119 - 99 in the BE during his tenure in the conference.

 

[BlueMAB]

And I don’t care about your opinion on him either.

I didn't offer one. My point was I'm not trying to change your mind, just point out your statement doesn't take into account a season-ending injury to one of the 5 best players in the league.

And I'm well aware of Hopkins injury.

Then why ignore it in your evaluation of the coach? That's rhetorical.

So far he’s done nothing and Cooley has.

1 NCAA tourney win every 4+/- years is quite the accomplishment. Pretty fair comparison to a 35+/- year old coach in his first year in a high major conference.

 

[Deepster]

I didn't offer one. My point was I'm not trying to change your mind, just point out your statement doesn't take into account a season-ending injury to one of the 5 best players in the league.

Then why ignore it in your evaluation of the coach? That's rhetorical.

1 NCAA tourney win every 4+/- years is quite the accomplishment. Pretty fair comparison to a 35+/- year old coach in his first year in a high major conference.

I didn’t realize I need to offer your checklist of criteria to make a point. It’s assumed that anyone who follows this conference is well aware of Hopkins injury.

That 35 yr old coach is in his first year only because the other guy got a 6m dollar a year contract for his resume and future potential impact.

 

[tzznandrew]

He should have won more at Kentucky.

What? He was there 8 years. They were coming off probation and were only eligible for 6 NCAAT. In those 6 years he:

Won a title
Lost an incredible national title game
Made an additional Final Four
Lost 2 E8 games, one of which is one of the greatest endings ever (that the probability of losing was insanely low).

Every year he was there and the team was eligible, he made the tournament. 5/6 years he was in the second weekend. He made 50% of possible Final Fours. The year after he left, the team he built won a title. Those 6 years were about as good as you can ask for, rivaled really only by UCLA and the late-80s, early 90s Duke teams.

 

[MJ1]

At the time neither Hopkins or Carter could transfer, so not really. I do give him huge credit for keeping Dual, even though he hasn’t been as good as was advertised.

Technically you’re right, but players who were not eligible to transfer were granted waivers when a coach leaves the team. Both players stated they were sold on coach English and wanted to play for him. He also sold Jayden Pierre on staying after he told people he was going to transfer. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach at this level. He’s off to a decent start.

 

[87Xfer]

Let's not mix up "worst" with "bad".

But how many BE schools right now would trade their HC straight up for Cooley?

Or, how many BE teams this season would be doing better if Cooley was coaching that team as compared to the actual coach?

Depaul

 

[7774]

Technically you’re right, but players who were not eligible to transfer were granted waivers when a coach leaves the team. Both players stated they were sold on coach English and wanted to play for him. He also sold Jayden Pierre on staying after he told people he was going to transfer. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach at this level. He’s off to a decent start.

The NCAA specifically stated they would not give waivers for a coaching change last spring.

 

[Madmannsucks]

He has success at 2 programs who have never had an expectation of winning it all. Next year’s recruiting class looks pretty solid. Let’s give him a year to see what he does with a better team.

 

[willie99]

I don't understand the disrespect for Cooley, I think he's a very good coach who gets the most out of his players. This year, he's playing the hand he was dealt.

Until now, he's never been at a school whose name alone has any drawing power. In a couple years, he's going to have that program competing.

If Ed Cooley coached at UConn with the same results he had at Providence

We'd run him out of town a long time ago

3-7 in in the tournament.

4 one and done

Exactly one sweet 16 appearance, and that was his pinnacle

As overrated as it gets in my world