Iowa (Caitlin Clark) vs #22 NorthWestern

[NYCHUSKIES]

Any thoughts on Caitlin's statline vs #22 Northwestern (no disrespect to any team player) vs Paige vs a ranked team..

 

[MSGRET]

Any thoughts on Caitlin's statline vs #22 Northwestern (no disrespect to any team player) vs Paige vs a ranked team..

Paige's numbers vs #18 DePaul: 18pts, 6rbds, 2asts, 4stls, 1to, and 2pf in 35 minutes of play. She was 6-13, with a 4-6 3pts shooting, and 2-4 at the line.

 

[EricSD]

Clark is an excellent player. She looks a bit like Kelly Faris, seems slightly smaller than Paige, but slightly stronger. She's a good ball handler, solid passer, and obviously very good shooter. But she's taking just under 20 shots per game.

Today Paige took 10 shots and scored 23 points. Clark fouled out with 8 points in her game vs. Northwestern. Clark is taking over 19 shot attempts/game and averaging about 25 PPG. Her FG% and 3 point shooting is below Paige's. I assume this thread was started because she's one of the terrific freshmen this season and comparisons to Paige are inevitable.

If Paige were to average 20 shots per game, her scoring average would easily be north of 34 PPG. So as good as Clark is, Paige is exceptional. Some have said she won't get AA consideration since we had games cancelled vs. L'ville, Miss State, Baylor, and Oregon got cancelled early before the season started. So we missed out on the opportunity to play some top 10 teams.

Well we still have Tennessee, who should be close to top 20 when we face them, SC, and Depaul at least one more time. Plenty of opportunities for Paige to shine. And lots of other top teams have had games against other ranked teams cancelled too, so this is not just affecting UCONN. We will see what happens at the end, but I'm hopeful Paige will be recognized for being the best player on one of the best teams in the nation.

The cream will rise to the top. Clark is an excellent player and will certainly be on the short list for NFOY and is probably a lock (at least at this time) for the all freshman team. But Paige is a cut above. Just my $.02

 

[Lorcan]

While I have every respect for DePaul, I think that Northwestern is a much more defense oriented team who is capable of shutting down a top scorer for another team and taking away their strengths. There's definitely a contrast in styles between Northwestern and DePaul, IMO as DePaul tends to be focused on the offensive end of the floor. It looks like Clark just had a tough night -- which could've happened for any number of reasons this year -- and I'm not inclined to single out this game unless it becomes a part of a larger pattern for Clark. Iowa just doesn't have the other pieces to make Northwestern pay for focusing in on Clark outside of Czinano who had herself a stellar game. Massey rates the Northwestern defense as #15 in the country, meanwhile DePaul is rated as #240. It's hard to make comparisons this season, given everything, but I think both are outstanding players who have a lot to look forward to this year.

 

[eebmg]

Watching Caitlin vs Paige, the biggest difference to me is that Caitlyn plays with more physicality and tries to play at top speed all the time and often gets caught having to make some very tough plays while Paige glides on the court like an artisan just picking and choosing where to make the impact. And something that has not been brought out enough is that Paige is often leading the team when she does not have the ball giving hand signals to Christyn and Evina and the others.

Even in Paige's less positive shooting nights, the ball just barely misses (no bricks) and except for a few drives when she was to far under the basket, I cannot recall any poor shot she took.

Of course, she has not really had a top fight defense focus all their attention on her so I was very disappointed in not seeing Paige against Baylor and DiDi. That is when you learn the most.

Clark will be a multiple All American but Paige is All World

 

[jabstep]

The Providence game shows that Geno has been working on making Paige the centerpiece of the offense. She is not afraid to shoot but loves to make the pass first. Geno has her adjusting her game slightly to what he believes will make the TEAM successful in the long run. That could change next year when we have Azzi to shoot. She is the best women's basketball shooter I have ever seen. As Geno said at halftime yesterday that the best shooter should take the most shots and then the floor should open for others. I saw three things that Geno has been working on happen yesterday. Anna took shots and hit them. She was rewarded by playing the last 36 minutes of the game. Paige shot more and didn't come out of the game until the last 4 minutes. Evina hit a three after driving to the hoop and her defender gave her some room. Chrstyn not playing much was the same thing only a different message.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Clark is an excellent player. She looks a bit like Kelly Faris, seems slightly smaller than Paige, but slightly stronger. She's a good ball handler, solid passer, and obviously very good shooter. But she's taking just under 20 shots per game.

The cream will rise to the top. Clark is an excellent player and will certainly be on the short list for NFOY and is probably a lock (at least at this time) for the all freshman team. But Paige is a cut above. Just my $.02

Per USA basketball: Clark 150 lbs 6'0" - Bueckeks 140 lbs 5'11"
But Paige is a cut above. Just my $.02
My 2¢ says the same thing.

 

[Littlemin]

Paige shot more and didn't come out of the game until the last 4 minutes.

Actually, no she didn’t; her 10 field goal attempts tied for the LOWEST number of shots she has taken in a game. What did happen was she scored 23 points on those 10 attempts which is off the charts efficient.

 

[Charliebball]

Clark and PB are cut from the same cloth..............both ultra competitive winners that will do what has to be done..............Clark is always going to win the stat game as she is option number one and option number two for her team.........

 

[Plebe]

Is our insecurity such that every time Clark has a subpar game we're going to trot out a dedicated thread about it?

 

[hoophuskee]

Is our insecurity such that every time Clark has a subpar game we're going to trot out a dedicated thread about it?

Or--
1-- there isn't a lot to post about or -
2--- she may be the number ONE rival for Paige being FOY - so why not talk about it?

3-- Or ofc you could be right.

But - - it's not so wrong to discuss this. Clark will have to have some bad games like this for Paige to win (because some of Clark's numbers in certain games are going to be prolific thus driving up her stats), right? Because Paige isn't going to need to put up huge numbers in the Big East as a comp vs what Clark is doing, right?

 

[donalddoowop]

Is our insecurity such that every time Clark has a subpar game we're going to trot out a dedicated thread about it?

If it is done every time Clark has a subpar game, there will not be many threads about that.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Who's Clark?

 

[CocoHusky]

Is our insecurity such that every time Clark has a subpar game we're going to trot out a dedicated thread about it?

Yes! And it not just Caitlin either. A subpar game by any of these players will undoubtedly inspire a thread.
Aliyah Boston
Hailey Van Lith
Samantha Brunelle (although I think we gave up on this last year after ND game )
Haley Jones
DiJonai Carrington
NaLyssa Smith

 

[eebmg]

Yes! And it not just Caitlin either. A subpar game by any of these players will undoubtedly inspire a thread.
Aliyah Boston
Hailey Van Lith
Samantha Brunelle (although I think we gave up on this last year after ND game )
Haley Jones
DiJonai Carrington
NaLyssa Smith

The BY (self) interest in Caitlin is pretty unique because she is competing at the same position at the same age / experience as Paige and we like our greatest players success to be unique/historic. Hailey Van Lith has already taken a back seat to Dana Evans in importance so Caitlin is in our sights.

 

[ScottCT]

Yes! And it not just Caitlin either. A subpar game by any of these players will undoubtedly inspire a thread.
Aliyah Boston
Hailey Van Lith
Samantha Brunelle (although I think we gave up on this last year after ND game )
Haley Jones
DiJonai Carrington
NaLyssa Smith

Not so much Hailey anymore.

 

[eebmg]

Found this video looking at Paige and then entering the Caitlin - Paige comparison. I found it very interesting from a source who clearly appreciates WBB but is not a specific fan of the program although he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about the general structure of UConn and Geno and his efforts to get her to shoot more. Yes, he butchers CW's name but let it go.



The most interesting part that may surprise (although you can imagine it makes sense being Iowa)
is that Caitlin at times floats or gets lost in defense (around 8' mark) and I am guessing Bluder is not in Caitlin's grill about it like Geno would be

 

[daggittydog]

Maybe the comparisons should be points per shot and assist to turnover ratio

 

[huskeynut]

As I read this thread, my mind wandered back to ESPN's big promotion/ campaign of women's basketball - "3 to See." The only name I remember of the 3 was Della Donne as one of the three. Can't remember the other two. And we all know how that turned out.

My point is that ESPN likes to pick the winners and they seem to have a lot of influence in doing so. So I have a tendency to ignore the hype.

 

[Plebe]

The BY (self) interest in Caitlin is pretty unique because she is competing at the same position at the same age / experience as Paige and we like our greatest players success to be unique/historic. Hailey Van Lith has already taken a back seat to Dana Evans in importance so Caitlin is in our sights.

Well okay then. Should I hand-stitch a Caitlin voodoo doll to stick pins in every time she plays? Maybe start selling them on Etsy to like-minded Boneyarders?

Basketball is a team sport, so I don't get the stalking of another player just so Paige can seemingly get a leg up in an ultimately meaningless individual award race.

 

[hoophuskee]

Well okay then. Should I hand-stitch a Caitlin voodoo doll to stick pins in every time she plays? Maybe start selling them on Etsy to like-minded Boneyarders?

Basketball is a team sport, so I don't get the stalking of another player just so Paige can seemingly get a leg up in an ultimately meaningless individual award race.

I don't get why you have to feel that you have to rip fun out of others who might like to see their players competing and winning individual awards. Not everyone has to be as negative as you are about individual awards.

 

[donalddoowop]

Why does an individual award mean so much in a team game?

 

[Plebe]

I don't get why you have to feel that you have to rip fun out of others who might like to see their players competing and winning individual awards. Not everyone has to be as negative as you are about individual awards.

I hear what you're saying, but I feel you're missing my point. First of all, it's not that I'm negative about the individual awards; I just object to how the obsession over individual recognition can seem to overshadow the team aspect in what is a team sport.

But even more importantly, there's a mindset at issue here. There's a big difference between a mindset of "Oh goody! Look at how so-and-so had a horrible game!" and one of cheering on Paige's great performances. There's a difference between hoping all the other freshmen in the country perform poorly so as to give Paige the award by default, and hoping that Paige performs at such a high level — in big-game wins for UConn, especially — that her merit can't be denied.

 

[eebmg]

Why does an individual award mean so much in a team game?

Guess we should take down those NPOY and AA banners? The beauty of team sports for me is the melding of individual with team. Room for both.

 

[eebmg]

I hear what you're saying, but I feel you're missing my point. First of all, it's not that I'm negative about the individual awards; I just object to how the obsession over individual recognition can seem to overshadow the team aspect in what is a team sport.

But even more importantly, there's a mindset at issue here. There's a big difference between a mindset of "Oh goody! Look at how so-and-so had a horrible game!" and one of cheering on Paige's great performances. There's a difference between hoping all the other freshmen in the country perform poorly so as to give Paige the award by default, and hoping that Paige performs at such a high level — in big-game wins for UConn, especially — that her merit can't be denied.

For me personally, I do not want to see Caitlin fail or have subpar games. I understand this seemed to be the initial motive of this thread but I think most realize that one game is not an indicator of overall ability or value.

Most people participating are trying to basically compare Caitlin and Paige reasonably fairly but I think this comparison gets people antsy because we see the potential of eyepopping volume stats and last second 3's (often needed by her team) blinding others (outside UConn) to the unique abilities, mentality and team vision of Paige (who does not need or even want to play hero ball most of the time) . And for me, this reminds me too closely of the Arike / Napheesa ROY battle which barely went the right way. Of course, this discussion is moot if Paige does not ball out against TN/SC but I do not see her slipping in these venues

On the other hand, I am a very big fan of Aliyah Boston and I am guessing far more than most on this board. Why? Because her style is unique and transcends her position. She plays at her pace, is continually developing new skills and I cant keep my eyes off of her when she plays (for the right reasons) I am surprised she has not been as consistent as she should be but her highest level games are just beautiful. She is my pick for NPOY although I know her stats are not as good as they should be.

 

[Plebe]

On the other hand, I am a very big fan of Aliyah Boston and I am guessing far more than most on this board. Why? Because her style is unique and transcends her position. She plays at her pace, is continually developing new skills and I cant keep my eyes off of her when she plays (for the right reasons) I am surprised she has not been as consistent as she should be but her highest level games are just beautiful. She is my pick for NPOY although I know her stats are not as good as they should be.

And to me, even more important than whatever her stats are is the fact that (a) she had a highly forgettable performance in the NC State game, and (b) her team lost said game.

 

[eebmg]

And to me, even more important than whatever her stats are is the fact that (a) she had a highly forgettable performance in the NC State game, and (b) her team lost said game.

I saw that game and she seemed out of shape to me. I think that is changing significantly.

 

[MooseJaw]

For me personally, I do not want to see Caitlin fail or have subpar games. I understand this seemed to be the initial motive of this thread but I think most realize that one game is not an indicator of overall ability or value.

Most people participating are trying to basically compare Caitlin and Paige reasonably fairly but I think this comparison gets people antsy because we see the potential of eyepopping volume stats and last second 3's (often needed by her team) blinding others (outside UConn) to the unique abilities, mentality and team vision of Paige (who does not need to play hero ball most of the time) . And for me, this reminds me too closely of the Arike / Napheesa ROY battle which barely went the right way. Of course, this discussion is moot if Paige does not ball out against TN/SC but I do not see her slipping in these venues

On the other hand, I am a very big fan of Aliyah Boston and I am guessing far more than most on this board. Why? Because her style is unique and transcends her position. She plays at her pace, is continually developing new skills and I cant keep my eyes off of her when she plays (for the right reasons) I am surprised she has not been as consistent as she should be but her highest level games are just beautiful. She is my pick for NPOY although I know her stats are not as good as they should be.

Paige, Caitlin switch em if we had Caitlin and never had Paige we would be just as in love with her as we are with Paige. Caitlin has had a fabulous season so far, I am thrilled for her and hope to see her and Paige ball to the end of the season. It makes the season more exciting. I would bet that not many if any given the chance would trade any other player in WCBB for Paige. Therefore let all the good players have good games, better for them, better for you, and better for me. If you would be willing to trade Paige please state your case and let all of us know. It will make for a great debate.

 

[dtbtbtb]

Yes! And it not just Caitlin either. A subpar game by any of these players will undoubtedly inspire a thread.
Aliyah Boston
Hailey Van Lith
Samantha Brunelle (although I think we gave up on this last year after ND game )
Haley Jones
DiJonai Carrington
NaLyssa Smith

NaLyssa Smith? i understand all the others (more or less) but not this one...

 

[eebmg]

Paige, Caitlin switch em if we had Caitlin and never had Paige we would be just as in love with her as we are with Paige. Caitlin has had a fabulous season so far, I am thrilled for her and hope to see her and Paige ball to the end of the season. It makes the season more exciting. I would bet that not many if any given the chance would trade any other player in WCBB for Paige. Therefore let all the good players have good games, better for them, better for you, and better for me. If you would be willing to trade Paige please state your case and let all of us know. It will make for a great debate.

Sorry. Not me. Paige's style is unique. I spent 4 years jealous that Sabrina chose OR and it was not 30pt games but an overall sense of beauty , court genius and tenacity in her game. I really do not see that in Caitlin (yet?)