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Ines & Amari

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Lots of calls in the chat to put in Ines and Amari and Piath and Mir…….

Ines came in and immediately traveled then on the next possession threw the ball wildly into the stands, not a UConn player with 15 feet. I think she is marginally better than B Palido (what a fun shot she made in the NC game against Syracuse) but not much more. Haven’t seen it anyway.

Amari wasn’t much better today but has had some decent minutes in past games, but inconsistent is being nice.

I don’t see how either of these two players, especially Ines, are realistically moving the needle under any circumstances. Georgetown went on a 9-0 run to end the game tonight and all UConn got was turnover after turnover with these two in the game.

Sorry, just don’t get it at all.

I think some have this utopian scenario stuck in their head that UCONN should always be ten plus deep and that everyone on the team should be able to come in and contribute right away or should be given minutes at all times to help develop into that type of player. Of course, this is unrealistic for a couple reasons. 1. You rarely see that across team sports. Benchwarmers will always exist and 2. Rotations shorten in the tournament and Geno, if anything, is always preparing for tournament play.

Ines and Amari both seem like great people and the team clearly loves them but...realistic expectations need to be given to them. Ines is a freshman who was gonna go to juco because Geno came calling and didn't practice with the team during the summer. Amari has had two years now and has had marginal improvement. Their minutes and their usage are, right now, justified. If either one shows rapid improvement, then they will play more. It's as easy as that.
 
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I agree that Ines is already looking like a competent player, with upside. She can certainly be counted on to provide quality minutes at the point, when needed. With both Nika and Azzi healthy, that need is somewhat diminished. Next season will be an even greater challenge, if Paige is healthy, Azzi and Nika are healthy and KK has joined the competition. In other words, Ines is going to have to improve exponentially to earn any time at all. And, sadly, she might become candidate to relocate. But she is already an asset for this season. As for Amari, it is hard to believe she was such a highly regarded recruit. I have been a major supporter for her, but she really produces little. Yes, she can stand at the top of the key and see cutters and get the ball to them. And, from time to time, can block a shot under or near the basket. But she has poor ball control and has lost all confidence in shooting. By poor ball control, I mean she has weak or" bad" hands. Her rebounding is accidental not earned. I keep hoping to see more value and maybe the coaches do as well. She did get some nice exposure vs. St. Johns. But had little to show for it. A missed lay up is just not acceptable for offense. So, her opportunity window will close quickly when Ice Brady shows up; not to mention the center from Egypt. I am reminded that Tina Charles did not emerge until her junior year. But I think she showed more, early, than Amari has. Anyone remember?
Tina won the USBWA national freshman of the year award and was a third team all-American her sophomore year.
 
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I just read your 1st para and had to stop.

First off you are exaggerating about averaging 40 minutes. Let's stop with the extreme exaggeration. Which players are averaging near 40 minutes per game? Please cite the players that are averaging 40 minutes a game this year or why bother to send me extreme exaggerations from other posters? I hope you aren’t so intent on trying to “win” a conversation rather than discuss ‘Bench’ vs “Core?”

Muhl was averaging the most 34.8. Please cite how minutes have caused her injury.

Second, please advise what Azzi’s’s injury has to do with "minutes." She initially hurt herself in a play in which Edwards crashed into her knee vs ND. That had nothing to do with minutes. Then she hurts herself 12 minutes into this game. If all of this has nothing to do with minutes then why in the same para are you mentioning 40 minute averages and putting Azzi in the same grouping as if they are related? IF they are related. then please explain.-- She played 20 minutes the game before. So please explain how this injury has a thing to do with "minutes?" Why are you lumping “40 minutes” and "Azzi" in the same para?

As far as Lou, she has played more minutes at UCONN than she has at Fairfield?

If there are exaggerations I don’t care to participate. What is also “fleeting” are things such as “wins and losses’ and getting to consecutive Final Fours etc.
For accuracy sake, my first para used "close to 40 minutes" not "40 minutes". Part of the benefit of my outrageous Spectrum subscription is to hear Kara Walters who has been saying virtually the same thing about playing time in general. The game announcers expressed the same sentiment. And no, I'm not trying to win a conversation but to have one.

Re Nika: Again I said she has played "nearly 40 minutes" and wondered if this might be impacting her # of turnovers. No mention of injury. BTW - Is it wrong to wonder if players get tired playing nearly 40 minutes and might be less effective and prone to errors?

Re Azzi: Respectfully, I mentioned Azzi in the first paragraph which said nothing about playing time. It emphasized how "fleeting" being in a good place can be a la Paige last year in the final minute of the ND game or this year's injury. I sure as heck hope Azzi's injury is not serious, and as for Lou, a couple of times announcers referred to her in a couple of games as perhaps having hurt or ankle today and foot in a previous game. Please don't ask me to cite the exact time that was mentioned, but imagine injuries to both and its impact on the team and season. Given the way the season has been going, is that too far fetched?

Re your reference to Lou "As far as Lou, she has played more minutes at UCONN than she has at Fairfield?": Honestly, I don't know if it's a statement or a question. If it's a statement, I accept it. If a question, I don't have the answer.

hoophuskee, by asking what appear to me logical questions, my intent is not to antagonize or incur wrath. I'm just a fan, admittedly as passionate about UConn WBB as you and others on the Boneyard. I respect and understand the other side of the core vs bench case.
 
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Amari is well into her second year. Recent games have seen her have more minutes and being more productive, especially on defense. Her quickness has improved on switches and the opponents' mis-judge her ability to block their shots. The smaller team's height wise in this league aren't playing against her length in practice. Amari appears to have brought into what she needs to do to get more playing time and be a success on this team. A switch has turned on in January.

Ines is still an unknown IMO. She has had the benefit of lots of early court time, and also from being around great talent and prime time coaching. This has advanced her development well into that of a second-year player. She has built-in quickness and is a determined study. She, being a point guard has a lot more responsibility on court than most players. We'll see how it works out, but I like the bones of both players.
There seemed to be a regression of progress in the Georgetown game Sunday evening for both players. Too much standing around and reaching in fouls by Amari, lack of quickness and not knowing where to be on the court. This was strange at this point in the season. Geno even pulled her after two quick fouls.
 
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There seemed to be a regression of progress in the Georgetown game Sunday evening for both players. Too much standing around and reaching in fouls by Amari, lack of quickness and not knowing where to be on the court. This was strange at this point in the season. Geno even pulled her after two quick fouls.
I couldn't agree more and said as such in an earlier post on this thread. She's like a "deer in the headlights" out there. Just play. When you're given an opportunity to play do so with some motivation and energy, even some emotion. You can't always control a lot in this game but you can certainly control attitude, energy and effort.
 

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There seemed to be a regression of progress in the Georgetown game Sunday evening for both players. Too much standing around and reaching in fouls by Amari, lack of quickness and not knowing where to be on the court. This was strange at this point in the season. Geno even pulled her after two quick fouls.
They aren’t the only ones. The whole team was dragging
 
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They aren’t the only ones. The whole team was dragging
Agree. Just a bad day. Wishing Azzi hadn’t gotten hurt because we all just want to turn the page on this one.
 
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I think some have this utopian scenario stuck in their head that UCONN should always be ten plus deep and that everyone on the team should be able to come in and contribute right away or should be given minutes at all times to help develop into that type of player. Of course, this is unrealistic for a couple reasons. 1. You rarely see that across team sports. Benchwarmers will always exist and 2. Rotations shorten in the tournament and Geno, if anything, is always preparing for tournament play.

Ines and Amari both seem like great people and the team clearly loves them but...realistic expectations need to be given to them. Ines is a freshman who was gonna go to juco because Geno came calling and didn't practice with the team during the summer. Amari has had two years now and has had marginal improvement. Their minutes and their usage are, right now, justified. If either one shows rapid improvement, then they will play more. It's as easy as that.
Part of the issue is you have some fantastic player here, best in the country. So, if you have more good players behind them, they want to play, so they tend to transfer. What’s left? Players with less skill, maybe not even average. I think that’s what happens at UConn. That’s why bench is not really ever very deep.
 
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Hello, @NY Fan: I'm here as an Internet middleman (woman, actually) for my 95-year-old father, a UConn fan who doesn't use a computer. The reason he's followed UConn for decades is the excellence of the program and Geno, yet every year he raises highly analytical questions—privately—about all sorts of coaching decisions. He does so only because he wants the women to win, not because he fails to realize that the team has an astonishing record of doing just that. I suspect he'd find your discussion both substantive and respectful. I know I do. Welcome!
 
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Hello, @NY Fan: I'm here as an Internet middleman (woman, actually) for my 95-year-old father, a UConn fan who doesn't use a computer. The reason he's followed UConn for decades is the excellence of the program and Geno, yet every year he raises highly analytical questions—privately—about all sorts of coaching decisions. He does so only because he wants the women to win, not because he fails to realize that the team has an astonishing record of doing just that. I suspect he'd find your discussion both substantive and respectful. I know I do. Welcome!
Thank you, I'd welcome it as well.
 
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For accuracy sake, my first para used "close to 40 minutes" not "40 minutes". Part of the benefit of my outrageous Spectrum subscription is to hear Kara Walters who has been saying virtually the same thing about playing time in general. The game announcers expressed the same sentiment. And no, I'm not trying to win a conversation but to have one.

Re Nika: Again I said she has played "nearly 40 minutes" and wondered if this might be impacting her # of turnovers. No mention of injury. BTW - Is it wrong to wonder if players get tired playing nearly 40 minutes and might be less effective and prone to errors?

Re Azzi: Respectfully, I mentioned Azzi in the first paragraph which said nothing about playing time. It emphasized how "fleeting" being in a good place can be a la Paige last year in the final minute of the ND game or this year's injury. I sure as heck hope Azzi's injury is not serious, and as for Lou, a couple of times announcers referred to her in a couple of games as perhaps having hurt or ankle today and foot in a previous game. Please don't ask me to cite the exact time that was mentioned, but imagine injuries to both and its impact on the team and season. Given the way the season has been going, is that too far fetched?

Re your reference to Lou "As far as Lou, she has played more minutes at UCONN than she has at Fairfield?": Honestly, I don't know if it's a statement or a question. If it's a statement, I accept it. If a question, I don't have the answer.

hoophuskee, by asking what appear to me logical questions, my intent is not to antagonize or incur wrath. I'm just a fan, admittedly as passionate about UConn WBB as you and others on the Boneyard. I respect and understand the other side of the core vs bench case.
1-- It's not 40 minutes. If I were to say the other players are playing close to 30 minutes other than Nika would that mean they only need a miniscule bench because nearly every team players most of their starters close to 30 minutes or slightly above them for others? Before this game, every one of the UCONN Starters are averaging closer to 30 minutes than 40. Slightly Nika too. But definitely the other 4. So yes mentioning 40 minutes as an average/close to it--it is a big exaggeration.

2-- And I'll mention again imo Kara and Meg - I'll mention again the post I sent you previously I'll recopy in bold below. So you bring up Kara and yet you heard the postgame from Geno and he said kind of what I had mentioned to you in a question previously to you that maybe Geno doesn't think Ines is as good as you think (and probably Kara) in which you said she has been "solid.? And according to Geno she is not "solid," correct? So now it comes down to "Kara’s philosophy" vs “Geno’s,” doesn't it? Kara did say "Come on, Geno" in her preference to play the team more like CD in the St Johns game. So I say this in fun-- you DO support Kara more than Geno on this issue, don't you? After all, you think Ines is solid, so you think she should play more, right? If you don’t fine. But I support Geno’s way much more than Kara/CD and Meg if they want to spread more minutes.

"And I did see CD substitutes different than Geno. And I stated that I didn’t like her pattern on past threads. Though it was for so few games I was fine with it. I admit I have a bias though. I grew up in hoop always playing as a guard. But many have biases even imo our UCONN TV Analysts. As a result while I love Kara and Meg (and Rebecca) but they even admit they have low post bias as well. I seriously doubt Sue Bird would have the same view as them. So I tend to think their views have more staying power on a site like this when they support more of what CD was doing, But imo it’s bias but I can still love them even if I think so as I don’t agree. Instead I agree with Geno. I’ve been a fan these many years because I just agree with the “play your best players” and “play fastbreak” which Geno does. He fits exactly how I believe a coach should manage. As a result, I felt he did terrific with ST Johns too."

3-- As far as Nika- Nika’s turnovers vs GTOWN probably more attributed to not having Azzi on the floor. And yes the more she plays the more turnovers she will get. And in terms of being tired vs Nika just wanting to gamble when making a pass, if you could tell me which is which then we would be able to draw some conclusions. Otherwise to take out your better players because you are guessing isn’t much to go with.

But I just want to bring up as I mentioned to you two posts ago that you play Nika to get her to shoot more. You are not on board with that but I am. And I think Geno plays her as many minutes as he does because he knows she has it in her to be "more" whether it be shooting or other than what she is. So I guess then that I have more belief in Nika than you while you have more belief in Ines than I (and you obviously have more belief in Ines than Geno too)? I noticed Nika shot 2-3 from 3 last night which will bump up her 3pt % this year. Her 3pt % I believe is now superior than all of last year than that of Cwill and Evina I believe she is now over 36%. And I think it's also higher than them from the prior year too. And as I posted on the Nika is Rising" thread, I spoke of once Geno began to "believe" in Nika as a frosh and before she got hurt Nika shot 37.3% from 3. That's good. She has shown to be a good shooter in her frosh year and her now jr year. Why wouldn't we want to encourage her to shoot more? You’ve indicated she is what he is, didn't you? I believe she needs more encouragement because the stats show that she can do it. And she is only going to get that type of encouragement through minutes.

4--- As far as Lou she averaged 34 minutes at Fairfield. So she is averaging less at UCONN. So we can dismiss bringing up minutes as an issue with her.

5—I’m asking you to try to embrace that possibly Kara and Meg are wrong, and what would it take to convince you as such, or oyu want to see reduced minutes and that's it?. Also think about how a guard such as Sue Bird might have a different view than them. And me and you have a major difference if I’m reading into your posts right- that you think Nika and Aubrey “are what they are” and am i right to say that you believe no number of minutes will change that? If that is true, you could be right, but if you are wrong, think how much stronger UCONN will be if Geno is right and Kara is wrong. If you think they can be more then wouldn’t it be fun to support more- for example- on here on this site? Come aboard! Hahaha. I just want to also make it a point that she is shooting better than Cwill and Evina from 3 even with more minutes than even what Cwill and Evina averaged. And they are pros. Not saying Nika is a scorer though.
 
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Part of the issue is you have some fantastic player here, best in the country. So, if you have more good players behind them, they want to play, so they tend to transfer. What’s left? Players with less skill, maybe not even average. I think that’s what happens at UConn. That’s why bench is not really ever very deep.
And the fanastic players keep getting to Final Fours. go to Finals last year, and ofc many champiosnhips. It seems it's okay to not have a very deep bench provided you have fantastic players as the main Core.

And ofc fantastic players (recruits and transfers) keep following each year -coming to UCONN.

The bench players want to play but so does The Core. Remember when Paige would tell Geno "You owe me minutes."
 
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I do think Geno needs another motivation to deviate from his short rotation norm. Whether that is fear of being worn down by deeper teams I don't know. You could also turn that around as an aggressive strategy, if we used our bench a great deal, where we could be the team wearing out the other team's starters and perhaps forcing them to use their much weaker bench players against our strong one.

We are not healthy enough to even consider that option currently, but have had several seasons where going into the season, a 10 player rotation, pressing and fast breaking for much of the game was a viable option, and could be done with all very highly capable players, not players at the level of Ines or Amari.

Geno's aversion to a long rotation has good points and bad points, but it clearly takes some of those strategic options off the table. You can't play at a super fast pace and press often without using a deep bench. Most coaches don't go to 10, often because the #6 or #7 player is way better than #9 or #10. Once Paige and Ice were out, that applied to us as well, but if everyone had been healthy, we looked to be a very talented top 10, with every one of those players being above average compared to most Division 1 teams.

This year he has no choice, but next year he presumably will, as he has for several years when he steered clear of it even when he had the opportunity. I have generally liked the press when we have used it, and I think we have seen a substantial increase in pace mostly a result of turning the offense over to Nika who pushes the ball up the floor way more than our other guards, and the return of Aubrey and more use of Ayanna in the future should help that too.

Maybe if we tried it more it wouldn't work, but while I understand this year, I think we have the pieces in place next year to press, run, and use a full 10 player rotation, where we are the team wearing out the other team's stars, and then dominating their bench even more than our starters do against their starters. At a minimum try it a little in the games that are not in doubt, and if it succeeds at least put it in your toolbox you take to every game, as an option to use as needed.

Anyway that is more of a next year debate, and of course one of the all time favorites here on the Boneyard, but just one final point. If you do have say a 10 player rotation that gets used to each other, an injury or two is much more easily dealt with. You can shorten to 9 or 8 without throwing somebody new into the mix that is not used to playing with the other healthy players. It is a relatively easy transition. If your rotation is 6 or 7, every injury involves major minute management and throwing inexperienced players into positions out of their comfort zone.
But when UCONN is healthy they generally blow out nearly everyone, right? So by games mid-2nd quarter it's ugly. Do you keep the press on? Of course you don't. UCONN isn't going to humiliate the opponents. And why is it so important to "wear out" another team rather than just "Beat them" by 30? It's still just 1 victory per game. You don';t get an extra win by wearing the other team out.

And how much time during games are you working on your press with 10 players in 1.5 quarters? You can't get enough game time practice in to press.

Then the quicker you blow them out, would it also mean the quicker you place your starters on the bench? How long before recruits in the 1-5 range are going to like not ever seeing 30 minutes per game through their 4 years?
 
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For accuracy sake, my first para used "close to 40 minutes" not "40 minutes". Part of the benefit of my outrageous Spectrum subscription is to hear Kara Walters who has been saying virtually the same thing about playing time in general. The game announcers expressed the same sentiment. And no, I'm not trying to win a conversation but to have one.

Re Nika: Again I said she has played "nearly 40 minutes" and wondered if this might be impacting her # of turnovers. No mention of injury. BTW - Is it wrong to wonder if players get tired playing nearly 40 minutes and might be less effective and prone to errors?

Re Azzi: Respectfully, I mentioned Azzi in the first paragraph which said nothing about playing time. It emphasized how "fleeting" being in a good place can be a la Paige last year in the final minute of the ND game or this year's injury. I sure as heck hope Azzi's injury is not serious, and as for Lou, a couple of times announcers referred to her in a couple of games as perhaps having hurt or ankle today and foot in a previous game. Please don't ask me to cite the exact time that was mentioned, but imagine injuries to both and its impact on the team and season. Given the way the season has been going, is that too far fetched?

Re your reference to Lou "As far as Lou, she has played more minutes at UCONN than she has at Fairfield?": Honestly, I don't know if it's a statement or a question. If it's a statement, I accept it. If a question, I don't have the answer.

hoophuskee, by asking what appear to me logical questions, my intent is not to antagonize or incur wrath. I'm just a fan, admittedly as passionate about UConn WBB as you and others on the Boneyard. I respect and understand the other side of the core vs bench case.
Very well said.
 
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And the fanastic players keep getting to Final Fours. go to Finals last year, and ofc many champiosnhips. It seems it's okay to not have a very deep bench provided you have fantastic players as the main Core.

And ofc fantastic players (recruits and transfers) keep following each year -coming to UCONN.

The bench players want to play but so does The Core. Remember when Paige would tell Geno "You owe me minutes."
Yup. You get it and I get it. We do, however, have a large population on this board that don’t get it.
 
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How about this for Amari in a blowout game
Have her play the entire 4 Q
Offense - Low blocks only (no high post), only responsibilities are layups, off
rebounds and putbacks, maybe try a sky hook
Defense - zone the whole Q, only responsibilities are altering other team's shots,
boxouts, rebounds
I'll bet she would do very well.
 
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Hello, @NY Fan: I'm here as an Internet middleman (woman, actually) for my 95-year-old father, a UConn fan who doesn't use a computer. The reason he's followed UConn for decades is the excellence of the program and Geno, yet every year he raises highly analytical questions—privately—about all sorts of coaching decisions. He does so only because he wants the women to win, not because he fails to realize that the team has an astonishing record of doing just that. I suspect he'd find your discussion both substantive and respectful. I know I do. Welcome!
@Wessex My respects to your father (and ask him Mays or Mantle, DiMaggio or Williams?)
 
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I agree that Ines is already looking like a competent player, with upside. She can certainly be counted on to provide quality minutes at the point, when needed. With both Nika and Azzi healthy, that need is somewhat diminished. Next season will be an even greater challenge, if Paige is healthy, Azzi and Nika are healthy and KK has joined the competition. In other words, Ines is going to have to improve exponentially to earn any time at all. And, sadly, she might become candidate to relocate. But she is already an asset for this season. As for Amari, it is hard to believe she was such a highly regarded recruit. I have been a major supporter for her, but she really produces little. Yes, she can stand at the top of the key and see cutters and get the ball to them. And, from time to time, can block a shot under or near the basket. But she has poor ball control and has lost all confidence in shooting. By poor ball control, I mean she has weak or" bad" hands. Her rebounding is accidental not earned. I keep hoping to see more value and maybe the coaches do as well. She did get some nice exposure vs. St. Johns. But had little to show for it. A missed lay up is just not acceptable for offense. So, her opportunity window will close quickly when Ice Brady shows up; not to mention the center from Egypt. I am reminded that Tina Charles did not emerge until her junior year. But I think she showed more, early, than Amari has. Anyone remember?
 
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How about this for Amari in a blowout game
Have her play the entire 4 Q
Offense - Low blocks only (no high post), only responsibilities are layups, off
rebounds and putbacks, maybe try a sky hook
Defense - zone the whole Q, only responsibilities are altering other team's shots,
boxouts, rebounds
I'll bet she would do very well.
Change your entire Defense for 1 bottom of the bench player?

How about continue to give Nika and Aubrey minutes to keep working on their shot?

Keep giving Lou minutes to work on her passing and her team defense?

Keep giving Dorka minutes so she can be more ready vs the top flight frontlines of oppsoing teams? For example, she could use some work in the low post finishing strong around the basket. They can work on these things in a blowout, can't they?
 
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How about this for Amari in a blowout game
Have her play the entire 4 Q
Offense - Low blocks only (no high post), only responsibilities are layups, off
rebounds and putbacks, maybe try a sky hook
Defense - zone the whole Q, only responsibilities are altering other team's shots,
boxouts, rebounds
I'll bet she would do very well.
@brownale While others might say your title is not "coach" or making the big bucks, I applaud your creative thinking. It reminds me of when in my yut Allie Sherman - then Head Coach of the NY Football Giants - used a play submitted by the locker-room attendant against then arch rival Cleveland Browns to dramatic and game-winning result.
 
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I went back and watched some of Amari's high film. She is so much taller and athletic than the girls she playing against. I also don't think it was the highest level of high school basketball. Watching her at UConn I've noticed that she does not like the physical nature in the lane and can get a little chippy with down low. I've even noticed her getting out on the break instead of battle for rebounds. I definitely don't think it physical or skills, but it is definitely a mentally of toughness she will have to cultivate.
 

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Good post, but I'd like to add that a ship is safer in port, but that's not why it was built.
That's true, and Amari has improved a lot since last year.
She still has almost 2 years left to continue improving.
If she's not good enough to be a starter now or in the future then I don't see that as being her fault.
She can still be a specialist or a role player, maybe that's what she was built to be.
We can't be sure until she graduates, and then we'll know that she did the best that she could in her amount of time at UConn.
Until then maybe folks should just appreciate what she can do when Geno chooses to put her into a game.
Geno no longer seems to say negative things about her because that would be demeaning and hurtful about a player who is trying their best.
She seems to be happy to accept whatever PT that Geno gives her.
I think that she'll develop some more scoring moves before she graduates.
We shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth because obviously Amari has some BB talents to be appreciated.
 
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