In The Golden Glow, Trivia Questions and a 2020 Concern

[Plebe]

I've realized there are two jobs that everyone seems to be eminently qualified for: selecting and seeding teams for the NCAA tournament, and selecting the national team roster. Everyone's a critic and everyone could've done it better.

 

[Carnac]

The expectation seems to be that Sue and Diana will not return in 2020, and we know that Tamika Catchings will not return. Lindsay Whalen is as old as Diana, so perhaps she will not return either. And Seimone Augustus is no spring chicken. Imagine if all five of them are absent in four years, or even 3 or 4 of the 5. What will the USA back court look like in that year?

I suppose that the top three candidates would be Moriah Jefferson, Odyssey Sims, and Skylar Diggins. The problem is that none of them have Olympic experience. By then, all of them should have international experience through their winter play, but that is not quite the same thing. If Geno is the coach, how will he cope with the absence of an experienced point guard? Will he rely on Moriah because of her familiarity with his expectations from her time at UConn?

I can understand (better now than before the Olympics) why Geno wanted Sue and Diana to return, and how much he planned to rely on them. I can't see how the offense can flow as well if none of the guards are really familiar with his Olympic offense, and there is so little practice time.

Usually there are younger players on the team who can be fully prepared for the next cycle, and that is certainly the case this year in the USA front court with Tina / Brittney / Stewie / EDD / Maya. But from this perspective, the back court "seed corn" has not been planted. There is an understandable reason for this -- the need for Sue and Diana's experience to win this year. But it creates a very real dilemma for 2020.

Joe, you need look no further than the "Select Team" that played this team in Los Angeles, and played them closer than anyone else (to be honest, the select team should have won that game). All of the replacements needed for this team in 4 years, will come from THAT group of players. I doubt Geno will return to coach that team.

 

[johnnyc]

I've realized there are two jobs that everyone seems to be eminently qualified for: selecting and seeding teams for the NCAA tournament, and selecting the national team roster. Everyone's a critic and everyone could've done it better.

Two more.....recruiting and actual game coaching. Check out some UConn game threads for some hilarious commentary.

 

[johnnyc]

After Bird's relative lack of involvement in the last three games can we please put this "the US cannot win gold without Bird" talk to rest. The US made a mistake in not taking a young PG to Rio. I love Catchings but she was also not much of a factor during the game.

We missed a great opportunity to get our young guards some valuable experience.

Shouldn't be too hard to find someone to get the ball to Stewart. In fact Moriah Jefferson has some experience in that department.

 

[easttexastrash]

I've realized there are two jobs that everyone seems to be eminently qualified for: selecting and seeding teams for the NCAA tournament, and selecting the national team roster. Everyone's a critic and everyone could've done it better.

Now that you have accepted this fact, sit back and learn from our wisdom.

 

[easttexastrash]

Two more.....recruiting and actual game coaching. Check out some UConn game threads for some hilarious commentary.

You forgot officiating...and TV commentator.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Skylar has never played professionally overseas and though she talks as if she is open to it, I think she's more interested in staying here developing her "brand."

Q+A: Skylar Diggins

Would that be a handicap. Yeah, but she's a talent if she can get and stay healthy. Her very overt "branding" is a turn off for me, but that's just me.

I think that Skylar's chances of making Team USA would be enhanced if she played abroad over the winter. The international game is different. The experience acquired is invaluable. Elena was the WNBA MVP and, though she played well in Rio, still found it to be a learning experience. I'm not a huge Skylar fan, bit I thought she had an outstanding second season in the WNBA. If I were to pick a starting PG in 2020, I'd clearly go with Moriah. She's the best PG since Sue.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think what gets somewhat obscured in looking at stats and players is how incredibly efficient the USA team is, and that gets to how special the guard play is - and in that I included all but the five posts and forwards (BG, Sylvia, Tina, EDD and Stewart.)

The team as a whole had an assist/TO ratio of 1.8 and the two players who had less than a 1.0 were BG and Fowles - subtract their numbers out, and the A/TO goes up to 2.41. The five primary guards were DT, Sue, Lindsey, Angel, and Seimone and had a 2.65. That speaks to the kind of decision making that the team consistently exhibits and is hard to duplicate.

Add to that the 57% shooting which also speaks to decision making - very few shots were either forced or seriously contested - only two players on the team shot below 50%, Sue and Tamika (42% and 45%) and they accounted for only 46 total shots or 8% of the total shots taken (26 and 20 respectively) - the next lowest total shots was Stewart who took 30 and led the team at 73%, everyone else was shooting 40 plus times. Again, knowing when to shoot on a team like this is incredibly important.

Finally fouls - only BG averaged above 2 would per game, and Fowles was second at exactly 2 fouls per game - international rules with 5 fouls only and with generally excellent foul shooting opponents, fouls are a major concern. Playing sound international style defense is an important aspect of being an efficient defensive team.

The issue with the young guards that will be coming into the team is learning how to run the team efficiently - it is something that most of them have not shown themselves to be great at in either college or the pros. They tend to shoot a lot at moderate accuracy, and to have under a 2.0 A/TO ratio.

Sue's A:TO tally finished at 31:4. Against the best teams in the world. Team USA is looking for a pass-first PG. That's not Odyssey or Skylar, though both are very good players. It may be Sloot or Moriah.

There are others in the discussion, but I've been impressed by the way Renee has played since Minnesota traded for her. She got Team USA consideration early on and didn't cut it, but I'd like to see her get another look. She's the heir apparent to Lindsay Whalen in Minnesota.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Joe, you need look no further than the "Select Team" that played this team in Los Angeles, and played them closer than anyone else (to be honest, the select team should have won that game). All of the replacements needed for this team in 4 years, will come from THAT group of players. I doubt Geno will return to coach that team.

I don't fully agree (a rarity that I disagree with Carnac). I think that the Select Team was chosen for 2 purposes: 1. To give some players a look to see how they would do at the next level. 2. To include players whose games simulated the games of key international opponents in Rio.

Natasha Howard had a great game against Team USA, but her play with Minnesota, while outstanding at times, is a few years away from Olympic caliber. Her athleticism may get her there. I'll stay away from the Candace Parker discussion, but I see Nneka taking Catch's slot in 2018. She's a ferocious rebounder, plays with energy, and now has a nice midrange game. She did very well in Turkey in 2014. I definitely see Jewell getting consideration. Coach Jenny is teaching her shot selection, which is perhaps her missing ingredient. At the risk of being repetitive, I think Moriah belongs on the team. In fact, I think she would have been an asset on this year's team, though there was no slot for her. She's simply the best PG since Sue. She will harass the guards for Spain and France like they have never seen before. If you think the little PG for France was quick, Moriah has another gear.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Sorry about the fragmented posts, but one other thought. This year's team was really, really good. It was also our oldest team ever, I believe. We need to get younger at some point, especially at guard. I would prefer that the transition be gradual. I honestly think that Dee will be an elite level player in 2020 and should go for her 5th gold. But I think this is likely Sue's last Team USA. She may be in the WNBA in 2018, but I'm not sure she should be on team USA. It depends on her health, her level of play, and the competition. Of the group of Diana, Sue, Lindsay, and Seimone, I think we should try to replace 1 or 2 in 2018 and another 1 or 2 in 2020. If they are still the best i the world, then we keep them and defer the transition.

In terms of other players, Nneka is ready now. Book it! Jewell is getting close and should be ready by 2020 at the latest. Odyssey, Skylar, Briann, Sloot, Kayla, Moriah, and maybe Renee should get consideration. Alexis Jones may be a future Olympian. Jordin Canada may be as well.

In looking at this year's team, the thought of the Hall of Fame (Springfield and Knoxville) comes to mind. Here's my assessment in terms of their likely status, assuming a reasonable continuation of their career path. For Catch, Sue, and Diana, they would be in if their careers ended today. Most of the others need good health and a continued successful career for at least a little longer. Stewie needs more time but may be on the best trajectory ever.

Catch--Lock for Springfield. One of the best ever.

Sue--Lock for Springfield. One of the top 2-3 PGs ever, the most decorated USA Basketball player in history.

Diana--Lock for Springfield. Should be in the same class with Sue. Probably the best player ever.

Maya--Lock for Springfield. Unparalleled in what she does on the court and perhaps the ultimate winner. Best resume ever.

Tina--Lock for Springfield. WNBA MVP, possibly multiple times. Top-5 player for an extended period.

Stewie--Lock for Springfield. 4 NCAA titles alone may get her in. Probably several WNBA MVPs.

Seimone--Near lock for Springfield. Best crossover and midrange jumper in the world. Prolific scorer and good defender.

Lindsay--Lock for Springfield. Currently 3rd in the WNBA in career assists, may finish career as #1.

Sylvia--Probable for Springfield. One of the best posts for a long time. WNBA Finals MVP and Olympic medals help.

Britney--Lock for Springfield. Ultimate game changer on defense, offensive force. NCAA, FIBA, WNBA, and Olympic champion.

Elena--Lock for Springfield. Unique talent, already with a WNBA MVP. One of the most talented scorers and best shooters ever.

Angel--Highly probable for Springfield. Scoring champion, most athletic player, defensive POY awards.

So, let's revisit this in 15 years or so. Some of us marvel at the fact that the UConn starting lineup in 2013-14 consisted of 5 players who made 1st team AA status at east twice each. Consider that the 2016 USA Olympic team may have consisted of 12 future Hall of Famers and was coached by one current Hall of Famer (assisted by 3 possible future Hall of Famers). A team for the ages? They sure looked like it.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I think that Skylar's chances of making Team USA would be enhanced if she played abroad over the winter. The international game is different. The experience acquired is invaluable. Elena was the WNBA MVP and, though she played well in Rio, still found it to be a learning experience. I'm not a huge Skylar fan, bit I thought she had an outstanding second season in the WNBA. If I were to pick a starting PG in 2020, I'd clearly go with Moriah. She's the best PG since Sue.

As I said, her failre to play abroad would be a negative. If you read the Q & A cited in my post she dances around the playing abroad question. Mo is the one. W need a two- second PG. Mae Whalen has that longevity, but I'd be surprised.

 

[DICKG]

So, having just watched the Gold Medal game on replay, I have two questions that I can't answer (neither of which is terribly important):

1. Who is the gray-haired, grandmotherly-looking lady who sits on the US bench for every game? She is dressed like an assistant coach, but obviously she isn't.

2. The announcers today said twice that Alba Torrens on the Spain team is interested in playing in the WNBA. That is news to me, and it does have some importance to Connecticut Sun fans, because as far as I know, the Sun (who drafted her many years ago) still own her WNBA draft rights. I thought that she has had a standing invitation to play in Uncasville ever since she was drafted, and has declined. Are we to conclude that she now wants to play in the WNBA, but not for the Sun? That would be too bad. Or can we expect her on the roster next year? That would be great news -- certainly at least the equivalent of a lottery pick for the Sun next spring.

And now, the 2020 concern:

The expectation seems to be that Sue and Diana will not return in 2020, and we know that Tamika Catchings will not return. Lindsay Whalen is as old as Diana, so perhaps she will not return either. And Seimone Augustus is no spring chicken. Imagine if all five of them are absent in four years, or even 3 or 4 of the 5. What will the USA back court look like in that year?

I suppose that the top three candidates would be Moriah Jefferson, Odyssey Sims, and Skylar Diggins. The problem is that none of them have Olympic experience. By then, all of them should have international experience through their winter play, but that is not quite the same thing. If Geno is the coach, how will he cope with the absence of an experienced point guard? Will he rely on Moriah because of her familiarity with his expectations from her time at UConn?

I can understand (better now than before the Olympics) why Geno wanted Sue and Diana to return, and how much he planned to rely on them. I can't see how the offense can flow as well if none of the guards are really familiar with his Olympic offense, and there is so little practice time.

Usually there are younger players on the team who can be fully prepared for the next cycle, and that is certainly the case this year in the USA front court with Tina / Brittney / Stewie / EDD / Maya. But from this perspective, the back court "seed corn" has not been planted. There is an understandable reason for this -- the need for Sue and Diana's experience to win this year. But it creates a very real dilemma for 2020.

So, having just watched the Gold Medal game on replay, I have two questions that I can't answer (neither of which is terribly important):

1. Who is the gray-haired, grandmotherly-looking lady who sits on the US bench for every game? She is dressed like an assistant coach, but obviously she isn't.

2. The announcers today said twice that Alba Torrens on the Spain team is interested in playing in the WNBA. That is news to me, and it does have some importance to Connecticut Sun fans, because as far as I know, the Sun (who drafted her many years ago) still own her WNBA draft rights. I thought that she has had a standing invitation to play in Uncasville ever since she was drafted, and has declined. Are we to conclude that she now wants to play in the WNBA, but not for the Sun? That would be too bad. Or can we expect her on the roster next year? That would be great news -- certainly at least the equivalent of a lottery pick for the Sun next spring.

And now, the 2020 concern:

The expectation seems to be that Sue and Diana will not return in 2020, and we know that Tamika Catchings will not return. Lindsay Whalen is as old as Diana, so perhaps she will not return either. And Seimone Augustus is no spring chicken. Imagine if all five of them are absent in four years, or even 3 or 4 of the 5. What will the USA back court look like in that year?

I suppose that the top three candidates would be Moriah Jefferson, Odyssey Sims, and Skylar Diggins. The problem is that none of them have Olympic experience. By then, all of them should have international experience through their winter play, but that is not quite the same thing. If Geno is the coach, how will he cope with the absence of an experienced point guard? Will he rely on Moriah because of her familiarity with his expectations from her time at UConn?

I can understand (better now than before the Olympics) why Geno wanted Sue and Diana to return, and how much he planned to rely on them. I can't see how the offense can flow as well if none of the guards are really familiar with his Olympic offense, and there is so little practice time.

Usually there are younger players on the team who can be fully prepared for the next cycle, and that is certainly the case this year in the USA front court with Tina / Brittney / Stewie / EDD / Maya. But from this perspective, the back court "seed corn" has not been planted. There is an understandable reason for this -- the need for Sue and Diana's experience to win this year. But it creates a very real dilemma for 2020.

 

[DICKG]

Regarding Alba Torrens, I emailed Chris Sienko of the SUN and he said one of the the team's off season objectives to convince her to here in CT. Of course, they have tried this every off season since they drafted her. For some reason, players aren't crying out to play in CT. I am guessing that is why she isn't here, because they did mention twice on the broadcast that she wanted to play in the WNBA.

 

[j66kicker]

Regarding Alba Torrens, I emailed Chris Sienko of the SUN and he said one of the the team's off season objectives to convince her to here in CT. Of course, they have tried this every off season since they drafted her. For some reason, players aren't crying out to play in CT. I am guessing that is why she isn't here, because they did mention twice on the broadcast that she wanted to play in the WNBA.

It was announced a couple weeks ago that Chris is "stepping down" as the Sun's GM, so maybe they will try a different approach.....?

 

[Willie E.Gold]

I predict Jefferson and Sims will be the Point guards next Olympics. Skylar is more a 2 guard and need International experience.Let's see what 2018 present.

 

[BigBird]

After Bird's relative lack of involvement in the last three games can we please put this "the US cannot win gold without Bird" talk to rest.

Actually, what needs to be put to rest are your ongoing posts that assume you know the value of Sue's contributions better than her coach. Surely you know that your perspective isn't going to get much interest or support here.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I predict Jefferson and Sims will be the Point guards next Olympics. Skylar is more a 2 guard and need International experience.Let's see what 2018 present.

I think you may be right, Willie.

 

[MilfordHusky]

After Bird's relative lack of involvement in the last three games can we please put this "the US cannot win gold without Bird" talk to rest. The US made a mistake in not taking a young PG to Rio. I love Catchings but she was also not much of a factor during the game.

We missed a great opportunity to get our young guards some valuable experience.

I agree with the last point that the young guards missed out, but I don't think any young guard stepped up and made the case for inclusion. I also agree that the U.S. can win without Sue Bird. But I think that we were a far, far better team with Sue. The U.S. played the second half against Japan partly on adrenaline, so the absence of Sue was not as noticeable. In the ugly game against France, Sue's absence definitely had an impact. In the gold medal game, her return gave us better guard play, a better rotation, and an emotional boost. She finished with a record-shattering 31:4 assist:TO ratio. No one in Olympic history had approached that. A young U.S. guard would not have either.

 

[easttexastrash]

Actually, what needs to be put to rest are your ongoing posts that assume you know the value of Sue's contributions better than her coach. Surely you know that your perspective isn't going to get much interest or support here.

As I previously stated, that was not a comment about Bird, as some of you less informed posters seem to want to make it. However, we did see in the last three games that the US performed fairly well even without Bird, who is the top PG in the world. THAT was my point...that no one player is bigger than the program.