In all these alignment rumors, why is the Big East not mentioned?

[Johnny]

I'm honestly not trolling…I wouldn't waste the time registering and waiting for the ability to post without wanting to ask an honest and interesting question. All I wanted was the UConn perspective, and I'm instantly jumped. Jesus. Someone just trashed the Big East…you do realize that now after losing L'Ville and adding Tulane, Tulsa, and ECU, that the Big East makes the AAC look mid major right? The AAC only has UConn, Cincy, and Memphis as real threats nationally. The Big East has Nova, G'Town, Marquette, Xavier, Creighton all of whom have been consistent top 25 teams for a long time.

Again, I seriously do respect UConn and it was fun playing you guys in the old Big East. I'm not begging you to come, but I think it would seriously benefit both parties substantially. UConn is in a terrible spot right now conference wise and eyeing the future. To be honest, UConn deserves to be in a P5 conference, but they left you guys behind. What's the next best thing that still has major hoops? The Big East. If you keep getting shut out of the P5 then what do you do? Keep playing basketball with low major schools? I just can't picture UConn staying in the AAC if they don't get an invite from the P5.

I think all the new Big East schools wanted UConn to be in the conference, but didn't want to be stuck with the RPI killing schools like I listed before. I'd rather have a small conference with almost all good to great programs vs. a conference with 2 or 3 good to great programs and the rest being bums.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Johnny,

Your idea is something that has been discussed on this board quite a bit. So you know, and as you can see, there is a large portion of the UConn fanbase that blames our connference affiliation on the basketball schools, despite the fact that virtually every former Big East football school has stabbed UConn in the back in some way during conference realignment.

Regardless, it appears the basketball schools are happy being in a league with like programs and with their fat Fox contract, and are not interested in adding UConn.

 

[gampelcrazies]

To be honest if the "Big East" wasn't on Fox Sports 1 then I would love UConn to join

 

[OkaForPrez]

@Johnny, where you are drifting from honest inquiry to trolling is your over aggressive underselling of the AAC and overselling of the new big east. If you were coming in for an objective conversation you'd be comparing the leagues basketball wise top to top instead of locking on Tulsa and Tulane vs. the NBE core 5.

Lets take a cherry picked example in a top to top comparison. You are highlighting Marquette as an anchor of the NBE. Great history, great program, just chased Buzz to VT. Will that disrupt their continuity? I would bet good money that SMU will have a better 5 year run than Marquette riding Larry Brown and their brand new are na. I don't think you've even considered them in your points above.

Creighton is a great program with a great fanbase whose last sweet 16 appearance was in 1976, 8 years prior to Houston going to the final four. Sure they have been a frequent tourney team out of the MVC, but its a leap to call them an anchor program in the NBE, and now that Doug McD is gone they have a rocky road in front of them in the short term.

I do miss the rivalries in the Big East but the value we would get by parking football in the MAC or Indy is not worth the cost of closing the door on a p5 bid which we are still very much competitive for. To account for Tulsa and Tulane were adding more Floridas, Dukes, etc. to the non conference. We'll be fine. And don't forget we're still cashing your exit fee checks which if used purely to subsidize the difference between our espn games and your fox games would last a decade or more.

Things aren't rosey in the AAC, but you are underestimating your own risk.

 

[noeynox]

Tulsa/Tulane Depaul/Seton Hall. You say tomato I say tomatoe.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We don't need anyone's opinion on the AAC vs. the Big East. There is something called the RPI that breaks this all down for us.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/conferencerpi

With UConn and Louisville, the American still finished well behind the Big East last year, in what was a down year for the Big East programs. Louisville is gone, and if you are going to compare apples to apples, you should remove UConn from the AAC to compare it to the Big East. There is really no contest from a basketball perspective, the Big East is much, much better. The only reason anyone is saying that the AAC is a good basketball conference is a) because of UConn and b) because it is a stinking fish carcass of a football conference this year.

 

[Dooley]

We just won our 4th National Championship, recruiting is bringing Top 100 prospects to Storrs, and we just raised Kevin Ollie into being in the Top 10 paid coaches in the country as a member of the AAC. This season's conference tourney is being held at the XL Center and games will be on one of the major ESPN network channels. OOC scheduling is strong and allows UCONN to spread its brand throughout the country.

But yeah, by all means, let's pay a $10M exit fee to leave a conference that is no worse than what is left over in the new Big East just so we can renew our heated rivalries with DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence once again. And in the process, crush our football program, lock in a Big East conference payday that couldn't even pay our coaches salaries, give us far less exposure than what we get in the AAC, and all to re-align with smaller private schools that wanted nothing to do with large public schools like UCONN just a few shorts years ago.

Pay $10M to get less exposure and crush 2/3 of our athletic department (including our hoops teams once everyone realizes that the Big East contract wouldn't even cover our coaches salaries) OR stay the course, improve football (which WILL happen) and bring our talents to a P5 conference that will allow UCONN to continue to fund our athletic programs to experience the success we have all enjoyed over the years.

Honestly, sometimes I think I am taking crazy pills reading some of the drivel that is posted here.

 

[SubbaBub]

If by new Big East you mean:
UConn
BC
Cuse
Pitt
Cincy
WVU
UL
VT
USF
UCF

I'll consider it an improvement over our current situation, but the BBonly wing isn't coming back any sooner than the wagon axle factory is coming back.

For those keeping score RU isn't ever leaving the B1G and Miami isn't associating with a northern confernce ever again. The others might re-up if there is an incentive to move back to 10 team regional leagues and the ACC dissolves.

 

[BlueMAB]

My source was in the room with someone relatively senior at UConn, but not from the very top, and this UConn person said it was very unlikely uconn would ever join the Big East. It didn't sound like UConn was making a big secret about the fact that the catholic schools are not interested in an affiliation with UConn. I wouldn't be surprised if you had theorized something similar, but now I say it so you act like a dick. SOP for you.

I don't know if there is anything uconn could do to turn this around, or not. From what I have heard, the Big East is not an area of focus for uconn. My guess is, if any of you want to give $5 to $10k to UConn, you can have someone from the school tell you this too.

All you guys that wanted the AAC, you got it. There is no plan b as far as I know.

I act like a dick because you're fahking crazy. And you like to argue with yourself and pretend you're responding to the posters here.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We just won our 4th National Championship, recruiting is bringing Top 100 prospects to Storrs, and we just raised Kevin Ollie into being in the Top 10 paid coaches in the country as a member of the AAC. This season's conference tourney is being held at the XL Center and games will be on one of the major ESPN network channels. OOC scheduling is strong and allows UCONN to spread its brand throughout the country.

But yeah, by all means, let's pay a $10M exit fee to leave a conference that is no worse than what is left over in the new Big East just so we can renew our heated rivalries with DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence once again. And in the process, crush our football program, lock in a Big East conference payday that couldn't even pay our coaches salaries, give us far less exposure than what we get in the AAC, and all to re-align with smaller private schools that wanted nothing to do with large public schools like UCONN just a few shorts years ago.

Pay $10M to get less exposure and crush 2/3 of our athletic department (including our hoops teams once everyone realizes that the Big East contract wouldn't even cover our coaches salaries) OR stay the course, improve football (which WILL happen) and bring our talents to a P5 conference that will allow UCONN to continue to fund our athletic programs to experience the success we have all enjoyed over the years.

Honestly, sometimes I think I am taking crazy pills reading some of the drivel that is posted here.

Let me add the huge exit fee to the litany of stupid things Manuel has done since he has been here. Why agree to an Exit Fee that is 5x the annual revenue from the conference? Big conferences get to have big exit fees. I wonder if this exit fee applies if UConn terminates its football program.

You list a bunch of accomplishments by UConn as if the AAC had anything to do with them. Depaul gets paid almost 100% more for its basketball program than UConn does for all sports. Do you have a kernel of understanding of the financial freight train that is about to run UConn athletics over? If the school does not figure out a way to make more money quickly, the athletic program is going to become a wasteland.

 

[OkaForPrez]

We don't need anyone's opinion on the AAC vs. the Big East. There is something called the RPI that breaks this all down for us.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/conferencerpi

With UConn and Louisville, the American still finished well behind the Big East last year, in what was a down year for the Big East programs. Louisville is gone, and if you are going to compare apples to apples, you should remove UConn from the AAC to compare it to the Big East. There is really no contest from a basketball perspective, the Big East is much, much better. The only reason anyone is saying that the AAC is a good basketball conference is a) because of UConn and b) because it is a stinking fish carcass of a football conference this year.

The top of the American is as good as the top of the Big East. Its the bottom of the American being in the deep 200's that drags down the overall conference RPI. We know the RPI is a rigged game to reward an RPI 150 win exponentially more than an RPI 250 win despite the fact that a tourney caliber team handles both with ease. Who cares? Last year it put a team that should have been a 4/5 seed and put them on the 7 line, they won it all.

 

[Dooley]

The AAC didn't win s***. UConn won those titles. You are saying that UConn is better in a league with Tulsa, UCF, USF and Tulsa than it is in a league with a bunch of schools that have final fours and national championships. Got it. Or maybe you are counting on Larry Brown to stick around forever.

So why would UCONN need the Big East if they are winning titles on their own? Do you understand that $23M/yr (ACC) or $45M/yr (B1G) > $5M/yr (Big East)? The Big East door will always be there for UCONN. Should President Herbst pick up the phone and gauge interest in shutting down all sports but basketball and moving MBB and WBB to the Big East (or any other conference), there would be a dozen conference commissioners who would pick up on the first ring. But why do that now when every single conference is looking into making more money through expansion?? Do you understand that the conferences that pay the most money are the ones that play all sports?

 

[Husky25]

The rumor I heard was that UConn already asked and was turned down. That is why I have not pushed this alternative for a while.

My source was in the room with someone relatively senior at UConn, but not from the very top, and this UConn person said it was very unlikely uconn would ever join the Big East.

It's a long jump from the first post to the other. The Big East is not interested in UConn because they don't want to deal with football schools like they had to pre-2013 and UConn knows this. UConn is all in on football and the Big East knows this as well. What is more likely is that UConn was not turned down (Which your "source" doesn't even mention). They didn't even ask for inclusion because they are all in on football.

It's a different world than it was in 1999 let alone 1984, and if a school is not in a conference that sponsors football, they are the ones that will more likely fade into obscurity.

 

[Dooley]

Let me add the huge exit fee to the litany of stupid things Manuel has done since he has been here. Why agree to an Exit Fee that is 5x the annual revenue from the conference? Big conferences get to have big exit fees. I wonder if this exit fee applies if UConn terminates its football program.

My Lord, you raise the level of stupid with each post. Yes, Warde Manuel is 100% responsible for the old Big East/American Athletic Conference's decision to raise its exit fee from $5M to $10M. He's also responsible for global warming, ISIS and EBOLA.

This post is going to be responsible for my cracking open the Scotch bottle at 10AM on a Monday. I am going to need to be black-out drunk to continue to read your .

 

[Husky25]

Why not join the 'new' Big East?

From 1980 through 2014, 14 teams that do not have a D1 football program have made the final four. That is roughly 10% of all Final 4 programs during that time period. I did not include UConn's '99 title as UConn had already agreed to upgrade to I-A football and I did include UMass's abdicated Final 4 appearance in 1996 as they upgraded to I-A (MAC) well after.

In comparison, that rate is just above the PAC during the same time period (9 appearances, 7%), just behind the XII (13 appearances, 10%), and well behind the SEC (21 appearances, 15%), the B1G (24 appearances, 18%) and the ACC (31 appetences, 23%). Combined the P5 represents 73% of all Final 4 teams since 1980, and it is actually higher as I did not include schools like Syracuse and Louisville who escaped the Big E after.

The total Big E appearances between 1980 and 2014 are 18 (13%), which is split 9 (6.5%) appearances a piece between football I-A teams and non-football I-A teams. Since the height of the original Big E In 1985 when 3 teams (all catholic) went to the Final 4, the non-football Big E teams went to the Final 4 on just 4 occasions (Providence '87, Hall '89, G-Town '07, 'Nova '09), which is less than 4% of all appearances between 1986 and 2014.

Taking the next step up, during the same time period, only 2 men's NCAA basketball titles have been won by a non D1-A football school - G-Town in 1984 and 'Nova in 1985. That is less than 6% of the titles won in that time period. Only 4 titles have been won by non major conferences - the two '84 and '85 titles as noted plus UNLV in '90 and UConn in '14 (Syracuse has 1 and Louisville has 3 while playing for the Big E and Metro). Those two titles in '84 and '85 also represent the only NCAA basketball titles that the Catholics within the Big E won it all. The other 4 NCAA men's titles are owned by the Big E are by the football playing member Syracuse ('03) and UConn ('99, '04, '11).

Thus the answer is obvious. To be a major basketball power, UConn must play the big boys in basketball AND football.

Very good, but you need to adjust your percentages up just a smidge. You have to include UConn because payers on that team were recruited before the vote. They didn't know UConn was about to increase their financial commitment to the Athletic Dept.

 

[HoopsFan21]

There are 45 Million reasons (PER YEAR!) why UCONN would join that conference. I am not a fan of Penn State or their "punishment" received either, but one bad apple doesn't make the orchard.

I was talking about the Catholic heavy Big East. But you knew that already.

 

[Sea Goat]

My Lord, you raise the level of stupid with each post. Yes, Warde Manuel is 100% responsible for the old Big East/American Athletic Conference's decision to raise its exit fee from $5M to $10M. He's also responsible for global warming, ISIS and EBOLA.

This post is going to be responsible for my cracking open the Scotch bottle at 10AM on a Monday. I am going to need to be black-out drunk to continue to read your .

How about Aberlour A'bunadh? 120 proof, smooth as silk!

I think you should be a little careful with Nelson, though. He may eat your liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

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[nelsonmuntz]

It's a long jump from the first post to the other. The Big East is not interested in UConn because they don't want to deal with football schools like they had to pre-2013 and UConn knows this. UConn is all in on football and the Big East knows this as well. What is more likely is that UConn was not turned down (Which your "source" doesn't even mention). They didn't even ask for inclusion because they are all in on football.

It's a different world than it was in 1999 let alone 1984, and if a school is not in a conference that sponsors football, they are the ones that will more likely fade into obscurity.

UConn knows that the Big East is not interested for a reason. UConn didn't figure it out by ESP. And while I assume that UConn is giving the same message to all big donors, I don't want to post something that could be traced back to a specific meeting, because there were a few more specifics behind it. If you know a big donor, ask him/her what he/she has heard.

Football is facing much stronger headwinds than basketball. Youth football participation rates are dropping quickly as the consequences of repeated head trauma become more well understood, and the P5 has boxed out all but the schools in those conferences from meaningful participation in the college football or access to significant college football revenues. I like watching football as much as anyone, but I do not agree with the assertion that football is a positive for the basketball program. If you remember your UConn history, the primary reason for adding football was that Perkins was afraid there would be a split and he wanted UConn on the side of the football schools. Well, the split happened but UConn missed the last life boat. Now UConn has a very expensive program with limited fan interest and small revenues that has forced UConn to align with an athletic conference that UConn would never consider joining other than to find a home for the football program.

 

[freescooter]

UConn has a football team. It isn't going away. It isn't downgrading to 1AA. That means UConn is not joining the Big East. The other factor is that UConn is a large public university. It is not joining a league made up of moderate sized urban mostly Catholic schools. it is just not a good mix. They have very different visions for everything,particularly their athletic programs. While I have no doubt that somebody at UConn might have unofficially tried to feel out the Big East about joining, there are reportedly still a bunch of mid-level folks there who think football was a mistake, I doubt it was official. I don't expect the AAc to be a basketball power, though it will have a few solid schools and 1 or two very good one over the next 5 years.I'd guess it is probably destined to be the old C-USA in the days before Cincinnati and Louisville left for the Big East. UConn, Memphis, Temple, maybe SMU,maybe Central florida. Wil it be the ACC or the old Big East? No but it will be ok. The New Big East is bound for mid-majordom, though.

 

[Husky25]

UConn knows that the Big East is not interested for a reason. UConn didn't figure it out by ESP. And while I assume that UConn is giving the same message to all big donors, I don't want to post something that could be traced back to a specific meeting, because there were a few more specifics behind it. If you know a big donor, ask him/her what he/she has heard.

Football is facing much stronger headwinds than basketball. Youth football participation rates are dropping quickly as the consequences of repeated head trauma become more well understood, and the P5 has boxed out all but the schools in those conferences from meaningful participation in the college football or access to significant college football revenues. I like watching football as much as anyone, but I do not agree with the assertion that football is a positive for the basketball program. If you remember your UConn history, the primary reason for adding football was that Perkins was afraid there would be a split and he wanted UConn on the side of the football schools. Well, the split happened but UConn missed the last life boat. Now UConn has a very expensive program with limited fan interest and small revenues that has forced UConn to align with an athletic conference that UConn would never consider joining other than to find a home for the football program.

Yes, and that reason is why the C7 split off in the first place. They didn't play football and the other schools did. It was explicitly stated and is public knowledge.

If you don't believe that football is a positive for basketball, what do you believe? While basketball is on a much more even footing, the power still resides with a small number of conferences, which still includes the 5CSMA. By and large, the football schools have the benefits and resources the best players are most interested in. They can offer exposure, facilities, competition, etc. For instance, when was the last time you caught a regular season, non-tournament Florida Gulf Coast game?

UConn missed the most recently passed life boat. I do not believe it was final one and limited fan interest is a fixable problem, which is being addressed as we speak, IMO.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

People realize it's possible to:

1) Say the big east is a very good basketball league.
2) Realize it's a perfect fit for its members.
3) Admit the AAC is worse, but due to our ambitions it's where we need to be?

The Big East isn't as great as it's made ti be, but it's still significantly better than the AAC. however, that doesn't really change anything about our positron.

Also, the guy posing the question deserved to take some heat due to the condescending nature of his post re: our football program and where we stand.

 

[Husky25]

The AAC's ceiling is much higher than that of the Big East's. Schools in football conferences will have a better shot at paying for FCOA than those who are not.

 

[Johnny]

Well, first of all thanks for the honest answers and not personal attacks. It's an interesting discussion for sure. So far I've gathered:

1. That Seton Hall with a 5 star PG and the #9 recruiting class in 2014 and DePaul (31 NCAA appearances between both and 3 Final Fours) are the same as Tulane and Tulsa which have 18 NCAA appearances between both and 0 Final Fours and certainly terrible recruiting). That's quite the stance to take. It's no contest that SHU and DePaul are much better. SHU has been picked by some experts to make the tourney this year because they really lit up the recruiting trails lately. SHU was also ranked just a few years ago…when's the last time Tulsa/Tulane were ranked?

2. There is a total commitment to football, because UConn believes another lifeboat will come. This is just wishful thinking IMO. Maybe it does come, but there's every reason to believe it won't. UConn football can barely compete with the likes of SUNY Buffalo and Villanova. And that is not a slap, that is true. Plus, major college football will never catch on in the northeast. This is an NFL region and if anyone around here cares about college football they are Michigan, Notre Dame, or Penn State fans. I just can't see UConn ever making money on essentially a FCS level football program playing in the FBS. Eventually if they keep losing money I think they will be forced to pull the plug. UConn is taking a MAJOR risk by gambling on football. I don't think UConn fans realize how big it really is. If the P5 continues to leave you behind, those rings earned in your Big East era will fade away. UConn is in a major transition from Big East era (where literally all your success came) to the AAC era (where there is a lot of unknown and lots of potential for trouble).

3. The assumption that hoops will be fine…because…the past? UConn was sitting pretty in the old Big East. Last year, the first year in the AAC, you do realize that you still had one last gasp from the old Big East right? You had a HOF coach's recruits still (Calhoun) and had that battle tested team from the old Big East. But it's over now. UConn won a championship with old Big East recruits and no doubt the championship will help their recruiting for a few years alone. But I'm talking about LONG term. Are you really going to convince major recruits to play in a conference that plays a few major schools and mostly mid major to low major schools? That will definitely hurt at some point when the Big East mystique wears off and the AAC becomes more the norm. The Big East is recruiting extremely well despite losing the football schools. It seems many people just blindly believe that because UConn has rings, it will always be successful which is not true. Your current conference affiliation has you on the outside looking in and your hoops will suffer because of it. UConn downgraded in basketball to a mid major conference (save for 2 other schools) to go all in for football. No way around it.

4. Football schools make the tournament the most and go deep the most. Well, where does it all start? Recruiting. As long as the recruiting is there, it doesn't matter if you have football. And the new Big East has not skipped a beat recruiting. Once you make the tourney, anything can happen. UConn themselves were major underdogs in the past two championship runs. They got hot at the right time. So I'm not worried about how far Big East teams can go. Nova is primed to always make runs, G'Town is bouncing back after a down year, Marquette is reloading after Buzz, Butler is reloading after Stevens, and Creighton is reloading after McDermott. Give it some time. The Big East was nowhere close to its potential last year and we had 4 teams in. By the way, there are always cinderella runs and major upsets. That's why it's called March Madness. All you need is some good recruits, a ticket, and a little luck.

5. The Big East is on a bad network (FS1). Really? First of all, how can you judge a network that literally just started last year? It has had almost no time to get its name out there. They have been picking up big time college football and other events building their brand. It's still FOX SPORTS at the end of the day…it's not like some obscure name. People will find the games if they are good enough. The fan bases of the teams playing on the channel will always find it. At least we have every game nationally televised which is another big recruiting ploy. By the way, St. John's will be on CBS and ESPN this season when facing Duke and Cuse. So it's not like we are only on FS1. The schools here also make double what the AAC schools make in their TV deal. It's not a bad gig at all.

It really just pains me to see UConn putting its life on the line for a sport they are terrible in. You can blame the C-7 schools for your position but at the end of the day UConn shot itself in the foot by making an awful decision to prioritize football instead of the 1 sport they are known nationally for and excel greatly in. What will really be interesting is if the P5 takes Cincy, UCF, ECU and leaves out Memphis and UConn. What would happen then? The pressure for UConn to leave the AAC is only going to mount, and the Big East would be the only chance for them to stay in a good conference that isn't P5. I'm so glad we don't play football…I wouldn't want to be a part of this mess constantly losing sleep at night wondering if we will play in a mid major or major conference. All can be solved by waving the white flag on the football program.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@Fishy Is it okay to lay in to this guy now?

 

[itgoeslike]

We don't need anyone's opinion on the AAC vs. the Big East. There is something called the RPI that breaks this all down for us.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/conferencerpi

With UConn and Louisville, the American still finished well behind the Big East last year, in what was a down year for the Big East programs. Louisville is gone, and if you are going to compare apples to apples, you should remove UConn from the AAC to compare it to the Big East. There is really no contest from a basketball perspective, the Big East is much, much better. The only reason anyone is saying that the AAC is a good basketball conference is a) because of UConn and b) because it is a stinking fish carcass of a football conference this year.

That's a bit misleading. The top half of the AAC was way better than the New Big East. In fact using Warren's data the AAC top half averaged an RPI just below 24 and the NBE top half had an average RPI of over 40. Sure, the ACC had some pretty bad teams at the bottom of the conference that diluted the success and RPI of the top half, but the NBE was hardly dominating anything last year.