Improves more in off-season, Clingan or Karaban? | The Boneyard

Improves more in off-season, Clingan or Karaban?

Who will improve more this off-season, Clingan or Karaban?

  • Clingan

    Votes: 95 64.6%

  • Karaban

    Votes: 34 23.1%

  • Karaban sitting on Clingan's shoulders

    Votes: 18 12.2%
  • Total voters
    147
A 7'2" guy will take longer to develop. I expect Alex to come back much improved. In 3 years, maybe a different story, but that wasn't the question asked.
 
I think Karabans redshirt practice year and his trial by fire with the volume minutes that he played, essentially pushed him into sophomore year level already, and we’ve seen his big improvement already. Klingkong however had his minutes managed like a more typical freshman campaign, so his sophomore jump should be more dramatic
 
Clingon will be an improved offensive force this season. I think of those times where he rushed things a bit down low when he got the ball. With experience he'll become more effective there. I think Karaban is practically fully formed now. He could have done more this season if it was needed.
 
They're both going to improve by leaps and bounds. Too hard-working and fundamentally sound not to.

I expect that Karaban will add plenty to his arsenal over the off-season, but Clingan will probably double his pure stat #s.
 
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This is a really good question. If "improvement" = additional points per game, I give the edge to Clingan by a hair, but I think Karaban is going to be the more complete player (like this year).

Clingan was essentially rim-running this year, so any low-post move development, along with improved ability to finish through arm contact and higher FT%, could make him an All-BE player. That's not even considering scoring ability outside of the paint.

OTOH, I would love to see more sets run specifically for Karaban next year because he was a great shooter on a national championship team as the fourth scoring option in the starting five. He looked strong at the rim too (as an off-ball cutter and with ball-in-hand). Would personally love to see him get 10-12 FGA per game next year. He's so effective that he has to have an expanded role
 
PlayItLeo said:
This is a really good question. If "improvement" = additional points per game, I give the edge to Clingan by a hair, but I think Karaban is going to be the more complete player (like this year).

Clingan was essentially rim-running this year, so any low-post move development, along with improved ability to finish through arm contact and higher FT%, could make him an All-BE player. That's not even considering scoring ability outside of the paint.

OTOH, I would love to see more sets run specifically for Karaban next year because he was a great shooter on a national championship team as the fourth scoring option in the starting five. He looked strong at the rim too (as an off-ball cutter and with ball-in-hand). Would personally love to see him get 10-12 FGA per game next year. He's so effective that he has to have an expanded role
Expand ...
He is only great at buzzer beaters.
Lol
 
I think we’ll run more offense through Karaban next year. I’m expecting him to drive more, which will open up his passing ability. Clingan will obviously put up the biggest raw stat increase due to increased minutes.
 
I could see both improving greatly. All Clingan needs is to work on is a few post moves and his footwork, and develop some touch within 5 feet. He’ll be unstoppable if he does that.

Karaban can bulk up a little more and just put up more shots to become a truly elite shooter. I don’t know how much athleticism/explosiveness he can develop, which is really the basis of the only limitation of his game.
 
This is an interesting question, because it depends upon your relative starting points for each player.

For example, Clingan didn't start and didn't play the majority of minutes. Karaban did. But Clingan had a much bigger role on the team when he played. He had a higher usage rate and shot% on offense, was involved in plays more often because he got so many rebounds, and was the focal point of the defense.

So in a way, Karaban actually has more room to grow when he's on the court. We'll see a wider variety of offensive activity from him (more driving, more playmaking for others, etc.) next year compared to this. Based on the things he flashed when Jackson was out at the beginning of the year, I think he was just scratching the surface of his game last year.

I expect Clingan's role to be pretty similar (with a few additions like outside shooting.) But in a lot more minutes. So in an absolute sense he will add more to the team next year than he did this year by a lot, but it may be in a less expanded way than Karaban, so Karaban may appear to have evolved more.

Tough one. To summarize by restating in a different way: I think stats that care about rate may say that Karaban improved the most (because Clingan was already a monster in those... like #2 in the whole country in BPR) and those that care about totals will say that Clingan improved the most.
 
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For me it's pretty easy Clingan. In addition to his physical gifts, he'll be getting a bunch more minutes. His stats should blow up. So Karaban is going to need to develop quite a bit to counter all that.
 
NDakotaHusky said:
Who will improve more in the off-season?
Expand ...
Clingan, I think he'll be a player of the year candidate next season. Karaban will improve and get more shots too but I don't see any way he'll be a player of the year candidate in his second season. They'll both be NBA players, Clingan a lottery pick after the season.
 
The one who puts in the most work in the weight room getting bigger, stronger, and more explosive through contact and finishing.
 
One guy is going to be a POY candidate and lottery pick. The other is going to be All Conference and probably coming back to prepare for his AA season.

So whatever you feel like is more improvement I guess.
 
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Now this is a meaty off-season conversation.

I'll go with Clingan.

Karabab already has played 28 mpg. He will get a few more minutes and his numbers will improve. 15 ppg and 6.5 rebounds in 31 minutes is a reasonable stretch goal. I think he will be closer to 13-14 ppg but I won't push back on anyone saying he's going to get to 15 ppg.

Clingan is going to go from 10-15 mpg to 25mpg+. Expect his scoring and rebounding to double.

Bottom line is Karaban has higher baseline numbers going in to this season making it more likely Clingan has a higher rate of improvement.
 
They both need to get stronger. More lower strength for Clingan will really help him inside. Karaban needs some strength down low and up top so he can drive consistently and finish.
They both have a lot of intiguing upside. Clingan will be allowed to shoot from outside more, but how much more is tough. He is such a load for other players and such a talented rebounder without fouling. It's hard to not want him underneath all the time. Karaban showed some driving in ability in high school and ability to finish with either hand pretty well. If he also shows a consistent pull up shot, he could do some really big things for the team.
I think next years team will see more zone and Karaban from the top of the key could be deadly for opposing teams with DC down low.
 
auror said:
This is an interesting question, because it depends upon your relative starting points for each player.

For example, Clingan didn't start and didn't play the majority of minutes. Karaban did. But Clingan had a much bigger role on the team when he played. He had a higher usage rate and shot% on offense, was involved in plays more often because he got so many rebounds, and was the focal point of the defense.

So in a way, Karaban actually has more room to grow when he's on the court. We'll see a wider variety of offensive activity from him (more driving, more playmaking for others, etc.) next year compared to this. Based on the things he flashed when Jackson was out at the beginning of the year, I think he was just scratching the surface of his game last year.

I expect Clingan's role to be pretty similar (with a few additions like outside shooting.) But in a lot more minutes. So in an absolute sense he will add more to the team next year than he did this year by a lot, but it may be in a less expanded way than Karaban, so Karaban may appear to have evolved more.

Tough one. To summarize by restating in a different way: I think stats that care about rate may say that Karaban improved the most (because Clingan was already a monster in those... like #2 in the whole country in BPR) and those that care about totals will say that Clingan improved the most.
Expand ...

Eye test agrees.

Karaban started to show more versatility as the season progressed. I think he will continue to do so next year.

However, Clingan will likely get double the minutes he got last year with similar usage.

All depends on how you define improvement. Statistically Clingan will have a larger leap. It will be much closer in regards to total game improvement IMO.
 
Karaban will be doing a live podcast at the 5/18 Red Fox Middletown event so maybe someone can ask both guys what they are going to focus on to improve over summer.
 
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That’s an easy one
Future growth for Karaban will be nuance and difficult for the casual fan to ascertain. Plus he was a key starter on a NC team
that with departures will focus more on him as a higher perimeter option.
it might even appear at times to the unknowing like he regressed
Clingan simply has to improve stamina to go 25-26 minutes
and get stronger which usually accompanies maturity and he is a top 5 pick.
 
For our sake it better be DC. Sanogo left a lot of scoring that needs to be picked up.
 
Since the question is who will improve more, it's somewhere between possible and probable that Karaban has better overall numbers, especially scoring, than Clingan, but Clingan improved more. OP's question is really a question of rate of change of improvement.
 
Karaban has the opportunity to bring the most value to this team with his leadership abilities, assuming Jackson stays in the draft. He seemed to have a connection with Jackson and always seemed to say the right thing at the right moment. With a presumably very young team next year, he can fill the leadership void that might be present if Jackson leaves.
 
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