I'm Rooting for the Irish | Page 2 | The Boneyard

I'm Rooting for the Irish

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TerryD said:
Sounds good to me. I think that Brian Kelly would like to play someone from his coaching tree, too.

I just don't know if there is any lingering bad feelings inside the ND athletic department over the defunct ten game deal a few years ago.
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I hope you're not serious.

We were in the Big East. That 10 game deal was just not a good one for where our Program sits. And I'd say also that it's not in ND interests. We are a solid Olympic AD that ND should want to play in most everything. Games that sell for Women's BB & Men's Soccer & now Hockey. I'd suggest the ND AD develop a strategy to play UConn regularly in many sports. We are good & we are National - in sports ND cares about. Or they can be foolish sulks.
 
Pudge said:
I hope you're not serious.

We were in the Big East. That 10 game deal was just not a good one for where our Program sits. And I'd say also that it's not in ND interests. We are a solid Olympic AD that ND should want to play in most everything. Games that sell for Women's BB & Men's Soccer & now Hockey. I'd suggest the ND AD develop a strategy to play UConn regularly in many sports. We are good & we are National - in sports ND cares about. Or they can be foolish sulks.
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Do you think that the current relationship between the UConn and ND athletic departments is a good one or a bad one, all things considered?
 
Aren't there about 10 message boards where people can sing the praises of Notre Dame?
 
No problem, that hastened the firing of Charlie Weis and the hiring of Brian Kelly. Thanks for that.

There are more than ten message boards that sing the praises of ND.

I was just answering a post about UConn and ND scheduling some football games.

I said I was in favor of it. I only wondered if ND's athletic department has a bad relationship with its counterpart at UConn, that is all.
 
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If controversial calls continue and ND feels they'll always be cheated out of conference championships and playoff access, maybe they'll want to be in a conference.

But if they feel the ACC cheated them, they might choose a different conference. Maybe their B1G grudge could be forgiven.
 
The ACC is backing the call, thus backing FSU. ND is on their own, as should be expected. If there are a few more late game calls like the one we saw Saturday night that prevents ND from playoff access, it should only hasten their need to join a conference full-time.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...re-dame-florida-state-interference-call-right

This means that while FSU will get to beat up on weak ACC opponents from here on out, they are safe to gain playoff access. This 1 loss knocks Notre Dame firmly below other conference leaders and even some 1-loss conference members. ND will now need a litany of upsets (and to run the table themselves) to get playoff consideration. And this will happen each and every year that this is an issue. ND should expect this and if they complain about not getting into the playoff after Saturday night's game, that's the peril of being stubborn about retaining independence. Can't have both ND: conference independence to get a jump on recruiting nationally AND backing from conferences over things like questionable officiating. Time to join a conference or just be content with national recruiting and playing in meaningless bowl games.
 
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Notre Dame will still be college football's darling in most cases even if they have one loss. I don't have a firm perspective yet on whether losing one of their annual set of ACC games is better or worse (for their playoff hopes) than losing one of their "independent" games. I would think that losing to a direct playoff contender (like FSU) -- whether ACC or not -- would hurt them... yet many are speculating the SEC West could get two in the playoff this year, whereby one certainly lost to the other already.
 
A 1 loss ND with their strength of schedule not getting a playoff spot while a 1 loss Old Miss/Miss St/TCU/K State/Baylor getting one with cause a lot of waves.
 
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pj said:
If controversial calls continue and ND feels they'll always be cheated out of conference championships and playoff access, maybe they'll want to be in a conference.

But if they feel the ACC cheated them, they might choose a different conference. Maybe their B1G grudge could be forgiven.
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ND will always go for the most money. If the B1G offers the best deal...all past issues will be forgiven.
 
P5 conferences are ALWAYS going to support their playoff candidate. As long as the playoff remains at 4 and remains a Popularity contest decided by a ridiculous panel of "experts" (i.e. - WTF does Condoleza Rice know about football??), then this will allow for conference commissioners and school Presidents to lobby on behalf of their conference mates. I have no doubt that Notre Dame doesn't have their fair share of lobbyists too but they're just one school interested only in itself. They will have to play catch-up in too many areas to gain playoff access if the current system stays as-is. Not only will they have to run the table year after year, but they will also have to keep scheduling ridiculously tough opponents (as they are already starting to do). They're bound to lose 1-2 games per year and that puts them behind a lot of 8-balls.

Of course, if the playoff system changed (which it probably will) to 8 teams, then ND probably can get in given their ability to play difficult schedules. It'll be interesting to see how many and what conferences support a 8-team model. You'd likely see some ND division amongst those ranks.
 
pj said:
If controversial calls continue and ND feels they'll always be cheated out of conference championships and playoff access, maybe they'll want to be in a conference.

But if they feel the ACC cheated them, they might choose a different conference. Maybe their B1G grudge could be forgiven.
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They will forgive the B1G grudge when they will be getting so much more money with total membership in the B1G than the ACC. There is no question that as long as they are partial ACC members, any football games that will decide if an ACC member of ND goes to the playoffs, the officials of the ACC will favor the ACC and not ND. If the playoffs stay at 4, and ND will find itself on the outside looking in, they will make a break as the handwriting is on the wall for them.
 
Some points here:

The Big Ten schools already made more TV money than ND since 2010 with the Big Ten Network but ND picked the ACC partial deal ( and less TV money) instead. Purdue and Indiana make more TV money than ND. No matter.

ND signed a contract with the ACC that if ND has to join a conference before 2027, it has to be the ACC.

ND signed the ACC Grant of Rights and $50 million dollar exit fee (or whatever it ends up in court/ settlement).

ND despises the Big Ten and is extremely unlikely to ever join that conference.



I seriously doubt that call will alter 127 years of identity or ND's long term strategic plan to be a national recruiting and scheduling school.

ND believes it can make the playoffs as an independent. This talk of controversial calls impacting independence is just idle, baseless speculation.
 
The Funster said:
ND will always go for the most money. If the B1G offers the best deal...all past issues will be forgiven.
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The Big Ten has always offered the most money. ND does not want to be in the Big Ten.
 
TerryD said:
Some points here:

The Big Ten schools already made more TV money than ND since 2010 with the Big Ten Network but ND picked the ACC partial deal ( and less TV money) instead. Purdue and Indiana make more TV money than ND. No matter.

ND signed a contract with the ACC that if ND has to join a conference before 2027, it has to be the ACC.

ND signed the ACC Grant of Rights and $50 million dollar exit fee (or whatever it ends up in court/ settlement).

ND despises the Big Ten and is extremely unlikely to ever join that conference.

I seriously doubt that call will alter 127 years of identity or ND's long term strategic plan to be a national recruiting and scheduling school.

ND believes it can make the playoffs as an independent. This talk of controversial calls impacting independence is just idle, baseless speculation.
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Question - How much, if any, does the impact of ND's non-revenue sport teams have on any such conference decisions? Travel is not a big issue for football; but, I imagine that sending the field hockey, soccer, track teams, etc. to games in Chicago and Ann Arbor are a lot cheaper than sending them to Miami, Chapel Hill, etc.
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
Question - How much, if any, does the impact of ND's non-revenue sport teams have on any such conference decisions? Travel is not a big issue for football; but, I imagine that sending the field hockey, soccer, track teams, etc. to games in Chicago and Ann Arbor are a lot cheaper than sending them to Miami, Chapel Hill, etc.
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Not much. ND is not worried about travel costs. The athletic department pays for itself and usually returns about $20 million per year to the academic side.

ND's other sports had travel costs in the old Big East when playing on the East Coast at Boston College, UConn, Rutgers, etc...,.plus travel to South Florida., for example. Not really an issue.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
Question - How much, if any, does the impact of ND's non-revenue sport teams have on any such conference decisions? Travel is not a big issue for football; but, I imagine that sending the field hockey, soccer, track teams, etc. to games in Chicago and Ann Arbor are a lot cheaper than sending them to Miami, Chapel Hill, etc.
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I don't think the non revenue sports have any significant impact on ND's decision to join a conference. As long as ND can maintain its independence in football, it may base a decision on which conference is best for the other sports, but if the only option that allowed football independence was to stay in the Big East, that's what would have happened. The advantage of the ACC was that we can play in Hockey East for hockey, ACC teams for most sports, play in the Carolina's, Georgia's and Florida for football recruiting, and still keep our rivalries with USC, Navy, and Stanford. Basically, it's all about football. The other sports are nice, but it's all about football.
 
The Best Fit geographicly for ND is the Big Ten .
You don't have to be a logistics expert to figure that out.

The Big East was a cultural fit because the northeast happens to contain the biggest consentration of Catholics.
The ACC lacks both the culture and geography
I suspect ND's historic cultural identity will have to change to fit in.
Those things happen when you sell your soul.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
The Best Fit geographicly for ND is the Big Ten .
You don't have to be a logistics expert to figure that out.

The Big East was a cultural fit because the northeast happens to contain the biggest consentration of Catholics.
The ACC lacks both the culture and geography
I suspect ND's historic cultural identity will have to change to fit in.
Those things happen when you sell your soul.
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Yes, the Big Ten was the best geographical fit for ND. In fact, it was the geographical center of the conference. With the 12 teams, there were 6 teams north of ND and 6 teams south of ND. There were 6 teams east of ND and 6 teams west of ND. But being in the middle of the big ten with the increases in conference scheduling was not a good place for ND. it would cut the recruiting opportunities in California, Texas and the southeast.

So yes, in one sense we may have sold our soul (not sure how), but in another sense, we passed on the most money for the long term benefit of the football program.
 
Irishfan said:
Yes, the Big Ten was the best geographical fit for ND. In fact, it was the geographical center of the conference. With the 12 teams, there were 6 teams north of ND and 6 teams south of ND. There were 6 teams east of ND and 6 teams west of ND. But being in the middle of the big ten with the increases in conference scheduling was not a good place for ND. it would cut the recruiting opportunities in California, Texas and the southeast.

So yes, in one sense we may have sold our soul (not sure how), but in another sense, we passed on the most money for the long term benefit of the football program.
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If the XII was the conference to lose out at the next realignment/consolidation step, would ND reconsider it's association with the ACC should Texas (and possibly Oklahoma) join the B1G?
 
Mr. Conehead said:
If the XII was the conference to lose out at the next realignment/consolidation step, would ND reconsider it's association with the ACC should Texas (and possibly Oklahoma) join the B1G?
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I'd say the B1G is the last place Texas will end up. Yes, the B1G academics are strong, and UTx's academics are strong, but that is one heck of geographical and cultural divide. Indeed, I think chances of Texas joining SEC. Pac, or ACC are all greater than B1G. (Just because Pac fell through once does not mean write it off forever. I'd argue the state of Texas is definitely big enough for a second SEC school. While ACC also has geographical problems, I'd argue that the cultures and/or settings of FSU, GIT, UNC, UVA would be better fits for UTx than any B1G school except Nebraska who left XII to get away from UTx.)
 
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Mr. Conehead said:
If the XII was the conference to lose out at the next realignment/consolidation step, would ND reconsider it's association with the ACC should Texas (and possibly Oklahoma) join the B1G?
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I doubt this restructured conference would allow ND to enter in all sports except football. I still believe that ND's primary goal is to stay independent. Their secondary goal is to maintain a presence in the areas that will help their recruiting efforts. The current arrangement with the ACC accomplishes both of these goals much better than joining the Big Ten would. Even a revampted Big Ten. Again, while many won't believe it, the money is a secondary consideration.
 
clmssun said:
I'd say the B1G is the last place Texas will end up. Yes, the B1G academics are strong, and UTx's academics are strong, but that is one heck of geographical and cultural divide. Indeed, I think chances of Texas joining SEC. Pac, or ACC are all greater than B1G. (Just because Pac fell through once does not mean write it off forever. I'd argue the state of Texas is definitely big enough for a second SEC school. While ACC also has geographical problems, I'd argue that the cultures and/or settings of FSU, GIT, UNC, UVA would be better fits for UTx than any B1G school except Nebraska who left XII to get away from UTx.)
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I agree that the PAC would be the most likely destination for Texas should the XII break-up because 1) Texas would still have a lot of clout in the PAC as only Southern Call approaches its the market as Ohio St/Michigan would counter balance Texas in the B1G and 2) the PAC has the space and lower academic standards to also add Texas Tech and other potential little brothers (OK St, Kansas St) should it be politically necessary to do so.

In addition, I can see Texas A&M trying to block U Texas getting into the SEC like U Florida has done with FSU while arguing that in time, A&M will be bigger than U Texas anyway. not to mention, that Alabama is one of the few schools that can equal Texas' clout in the market and the Tide would be backed by Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, etc.

I could see the SEC looking at Baylor as a second Texas entry as the Bears have proven success athletically in many sports recently and have put serious money into it's athletic facilities. Baylor, while private and on the small side (14K students), does have a $1 billion endowment, has a medical school and other grad programs, is highly ranked academically (#74 in US news) with AAU membership as a stated goal. Would that make them a B1G target, too?

I disagree with the similarity to the ACC though. Texas is a state flagship university with a football first mentality and solid academics. Not a single school in the ACC matches. The ACC state flagships are basketball first (Maryland, UVA, UNC) while only a handful of secondary state schools are football first (Clemson, FSU, and V Tech) do share a football first mentality; but, I see Texas having a hard time. Plus, the ACC has a number of distinctly Yankee schools in BC and Syracuse and small, elite basketball first schools in Duke and Wake. The only interest that Texas may have is if they can get a sweathart deal like ND has.
 
Irishfan said:
I doubt this restructured conference would allow ND to enter in all sports except football. I still believe that ND's primary goal is to stay independent. Their secondary goal is to maintain a presence in the areas that will help their recruiting efforts. The current arrangement with the ACC accomplishes both of these goals much better than joining the Big Ten would. Even a revamped Big Ten. Again, while many won't believe it, the money is a secondary consideration.
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Concur that ND wants to stay independent in football and many of the main donors want such as well. That said, if the new system makes it very difficult for an independent to get into the playoffs, ND may not have a choice., which is what I think this alliance with the ACC is about - training for the ND faithful on what will likely happen down the road. Thus, going back to my prior question, if the XII was to die out, which I think is more likely than the ACC dying, would the addition of Texas (and Oklahoma) be enough of a lure to drawn in ND. With a conference stretching from Boston via UConn (fingers and toes crossed) through NYC, Philly, DC, across to Chicago and then south to Dallas and Houston, has to be of interest to ND.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
If the XII was the conference to lose out at the next realignment/consolidation step, would ND reconsider it's association with the ACC should Texas (and possibly Oklahoma) join the B1G?
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I really don't think so, for a number of reasons.

The Big Ten is a no go for ND. I think Jim Delany finally understands this.
 
Texas could end up with a similar deal as ND. The stipulation would be that some B XII schools go with them as full members. I could see WV, TCU and Baylor. Then Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State and Connecticut join the B1G. It works for getting three divisions that work geographically.

BC, SU, Pitt, WV, UL, UC
VT, Virginia, Duke, Wake, UNC, NC State
FSU, UM, GT, Clemson, Baylor, TCU

OU, KU, Neb, ISU, NU, IL
MN, WI, Purdue, Michigan State, Iowa, Indiana
MI, Ohio State, Penn State, CT, MD, Rutgers

That's the only way I see the B1G accepting UConn. But suspect they'd go the ultraconservative route and just take two. IMO, going to 18 each works best for both conferences.
 
CoastAtlantic said:
Texas could end up with a similar deal as ND. The stipulation would be that some B XII schools go with them as full members. I could see WV, TCU and Baylor. Then Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State and Connecticut join the B1G. It works for getting three divisions that work geographically.

BC, SU, Pitt, WV, UL, UC
VT, Virginia, Duke, Wake, UNC, NC State
FSU, UM, GT, Clemson, Baylor, TCU

OU, KU, Neb, ISU, NU, IL
MN, WI, Purdue, Michigan State, Iowa, Indiana
MI, Ohio State, Penn State, CT, MD, Rutgers

That's the only way I see the B1G accepting UConn. But suspect they'd go the ultraconservative route and just take two. IMO, going to 18 each works best for both conferences.
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1)Iowa State is never getting an invite to The B1g. The BTN and the law of diminishing returns all but guarantee it, in fact there are better odds that East Carolina and ODU will accept invitations to The ACC first.

2)Regardless of whatever deal The ACC might offer, it is beyond ridiculous to imagine Texas schlepping their Olympic Teams up and down the Eastern Seaboard. ND has to recruit nationally, UT doesn't. They would likely go independent in football ala BYU and stash their other sports in whatever remains of The Big 12/MWC/AAC Merger.

3)How exactly does 18 work best for conferences? Unless you are planning on two divisions of nine schools each, which you aren't, it is a giant pain in the ass for scheduling.
 
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