I don't think opposing coaches read the boneyard.

[doggydaddy]

Early in the season, many posters said that if Jefferson didn't make a decent percentage of her three point shots, teams would just back off and play 5 on 4 defense leaving her open.

Well, she is shooting 23.5% on 3's. And I don't think I've seen many time where teams have employed that tactic.

Hartley in shooting 26.7% on 3's.

Maybe they will wise up and play 5 on 3 and back off both of them.

 

[UcMiami]

Yeah but Bria is making over 56% of her twos and Moriah is at 67% so you can't ignore either of them. And they are constantly in motion and setting screens so if you aren't tight on them, the screened for player will be wide open. And unfortunately - neither Moriah or Bria are taking contested threes so to some degree it is happening.

 

[doggydaddy]

Yeah but Bria is making over 56% of her twos and Moriah is at 67% so you can't ignore either of them. And they are constantly in motion and setting screens so if you aren't tight on them, the screened for player will be wide open. And unfortunately - neither Moriah or Bria are taking contested threes so to some degree it is happening.

I don't see how them not taking contested threes mean that teams are laying off them.

 

[UcMiami]

I don't see how them not taking contested threes mean that teams are laying off them.

Well - when Moriah or Bria typically launch a three, there is no player within ten feet of them, so if you are saying they aren't laying off them, I shudder to think what that might look like!!!

 

[doggydaddy]

I can't remember on time where they took an open three and I said to myself, wow, they left them open on purpose.

Most oft he time, it's because of good ball movement.

 

[Icebear]

I can't remember on time where they took an open three and I said to myself, wow, they left them open on purpose.

Most oft he time, it's because of good ball movement.

Absolutely, they are not leaving them open and it is all about ball movement. Laying off MoJet just gives her more space to go by you or increases the likeliness you will need to foul her testing that 80%+ FT avg. The last thing you want to deal with is MoJet coming at you with a full head of Mach 2.

 

[Biff]

I can't remember on time where they took an open three and I said to myself, wow, they left them open on purpose.

Most oft he time, it's because of good ball movement.

If Mo and Bria weren't so slow they'd get more open looks.

 

[DobbsRover2]

MoJeff's 3-pt shooting isn't really much of an issue since she only takes about 2 a game, and guards do have to occasionally jack one up to keep the defenses honest. Bria's perimeter shooting is more of an issue since she's upped the jacks to 4.5 a game after averaging exactly 4 a game last year at 29.7%. At this point I think you gotta say that's not her strong suit, and I'm kind of hoping she doesn't suddenly go 4-6 in a game because it might steer her in the wrong direction. However, if she suddenly starts burying them in practice, give it a try in a game and see if suddenly you've found the touch. All things being equal, she needs to make a big leap to 37% on 3-pt attempts to equal the team average of 56.0% on 2-pt attempts, but 3s are also used to extend the defense so they can be cut some slack.

UTenn has a situation with their two starting guards where one is a good 3-pt shooter (Massengale at 40%) and one is not (Simmons naturally at 30%). But it is Simmons who is jacking more 3s, though as the shooting guard I guess that's to be expected. The two Vol guards shoot more than 10 threes a game while the Uconn pair average a little under 7 a game, which at least is a bit comforting. And though the teams average about the same on offense, UConn gives up 14 less points, and though UTenn shoots the 3s a little better, UConn's margin over opponent's 3s is higher.

 

[Adesmar123]

Well, she is shooting 23.5% on 3's. And I don't think I've seen many time where teams have employed that tactic.
Hartley in shooting 26.7% on 3's.

Remember reversion to the mean.....

 

[huskybill]

Doggydaddy, I think someone just called you mean...and it wasn't me.

 

[VAMike23]

Laying off MoJet just gives her more space to go by you or increases the likeliness you will need to foul her testing that 80%+ FT avg. The last thing you want to deal with is MoJet coming at you with a full head of Mach 2.

..........?

 

[msf22b]

I can't remember on time where they took an open three and I said to myself, wow, they left them open on purpose.

Most oft he time, it's because of good ball movement.

Agree Doggy and if you lay off Bria, she'll dribble in and shoot her pull-up which is much more deadly
(and is a classic jumpshot as well).

 

[Icebear]

.....?

When you lay off someone like MoJet you just give them more space to accelerate and more room for them to move around you. MoJet is not someone who will be cut off by someone without adjusting and getting. How many times have we seen her at speed split defenders. Play off her with body checking her you are just inviting her to be at speed, something you don't want to deal with.

 

[VAMike23]

When you lay off someone like MoJet you just give them more space to accelerate and more room for them to move around you. MoJet is not someone who will be cut off by someone without adjusting and getting. How many times have we seen her at speed split defenders. Play off her with body checking her you are just inviting her to be at speed, something you don't want to deal with.

So, play her tight then?

 

[DobbsRover2]

So, play her tight then?

No, surround her with 5 players with locked knees and hands clasped. Or maybe bring in Wile E. Coyote to try and deal with her. Pick your poison.

 

[Icebear]

So, play her tight then?

No, not tight but you must stay within about five to six feet about a full stride to stride and a half to react and deny her a head of steam by gaining a position to force her to take a short stride and turn. Laying off at 8' + is going to get you burned and get you chasing not defending. If you have to catch up to a reversal pass to MoJet by still coming forward to meet her she will use you momentum against you and she is attacking the basket then you are toast because she can shift her momentum easier than you. Advantage to speed packed lean and mean.

 

[Phil]

No, surround her with 5 players with locked knees and hands clasped. Or maybe bring in Wile E. Coyote to try and deal with her. Pick your poison.

Wile E. Coyote's track record isn't stellar. Has anyone ever explained why he hasn't starved to death?

 

[doggydaddy]

Wile E. Coyote's track record isn't stellar. Has anyone ever explained why he hasn't starved to death?

I'm thinking because he is a cartoon character.

 

[Icebear]

I'm thinking because he is a cartoon character.

Wow, that was a two dimensional answer.

 

[Biff]

I'm thinking because he is a cartoon character.

Wow, that was a two dimensional answer.

I know. You'd think he'd be more animated about the topic.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Wile E. Coyote's track record isn't stellar. Has anyone ever explained why he hasn't starved to death?

It's hard to set any track records when you're competing against speedsters like MoJeff. He might be able to take her in an ultramarathon, where canids do okay. As to why he hasn't starved to death, there's always a lot of UConn roadkill to feast on, that's my guess.

 

[phil sampieri]

When you lay off someone like MoJet you just give them more space to accelerate and more room for them to move around you. MoJet is not someone who will be cut off by someone without adjusting and getting. How many times have we seen her at speed split defenders. Play off her with body checking her you are just inviting her to be at speed, something you don't want to deal with.

sorry to disagree but laying off a dribbler 5-8 ft does not make it easier for them to go by you. playing too tight makes it easier for them to go by. Rule of thumb for 100 years is arms length.

 

[Icebear]

sorry to disagree but laying off a dribbler 5-8 ft does not make it easier for them to go by you. playing too tight makes it easier for them to go by. Rule of thumb for 100 years is arms length.

Phil, I said you play 5-8, not 8' plus. I do not consider 5' to 8' to be playing off the shooter. Reread what I said. Playing at arm's length is about 26" and way too close for the situation we're talking about. I really prefer having a defender at the 5-6' range, cheating to 8' but you cannot layoff to 8'+ for the reasons I noted. Also, we are talking players with exceptional speed, MoJet, not the average good athlete. I, intentionally, did not mention Bria who was mentioned by another poster.

 

[phil sampieri]

Phil, I said you play 5-8, not 8' plus. I do not consider 5' to 8' to be playing off the shooter. Reread what I said. Playing at arm's length is about 26" and way too close for the situation we're talking about. I really prefer having a defender at the 5-6' range, cheating to 8' but you cannot layoff to 8'+ for the reasons I noted. Also, we are talking players with exceptional speed not the average athlete. I, intentionally, did not mention Bria who was mentioned by another poster.

I promise never to respond to any of your posts particularly if it relates to good basketball techniques.
Wow

 

[Icebear]

I promise never to respond to any of your posts particularly if it relates to good basketball techniques.
Wow

Wasn't disagreeing with you, just wanted be clear and that you understood we agreed on the 5-8' range and that the problems I was addressing began when really laying off 8' plus or minus a yard. You can't give MoJet that much room to get up a head of steam and expect to contain her off the dribble.

 

[phil sampieri]

Wasn't disagreeing with you, just wanted be clear and that you understood we agreed on the 5-8' range and that the problems I was addressing began when really laying off 8' plus or minus a yard. You can't give MoJet that much room to get up a head of steam and expect to contain her off the dribble.

I absolutely do not agree on 5-8 ft away. A jump shooter would destroy you. again, read any basketball book on how to- and it's arms length- the closer you are the easier it is for ball handler to get by with their first step, the further you are makes it more difficult to get by dedender no matter how quick the offense player is.

 

[Icebear]

I absolutely do not agree on 5-8 ft away. A jump shooter would destroy you. again, read any basketball book on how to- and it's arms length- the closer you are the easier it is for ball handler to get by with their first step, the further you are makes it more difficult to get by dedender no matter how quick the offense player is.

DD's OP said, "Early in the season, many posters said that if Jefferson didn't make a decent percentage of her three point shots, teams would just back off and play 5 on 4 defense leaving her open."

The OP discussion was, specifically, related to laying off of MoJet for help D because of her "lack" of jumper or more specifically a reliable 3pt shot (see her shooting %). A jump shooter was the opposite of what was being discussed. I agree with you that the standard guarding position is arm's length to 3' and that 5-8' is too much lay off for a good jump shooter but that was not the discussion I was addressing.

The discussion started with the idea of letting MoJet shoot and laying off for help D which to me is 8+ feet if it is really going to provide real help D. My comments were limited to why that is not a good idea with MoJet whether one considers her a 3 point threat or not. At 8+ feet you are just giving her too much room to build up speed and take one off the dribble.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I absolutely do not agree on 5-8 ft away. A jump shooter would destroy you. again, read any basketball book on how to- and it's arms length- the closer you are the easier it is for ball handler to get by with their first step, the further you are makes it more difficult to get by dedender no matter how quick the offense player is.

Sorry Phil, that's a one-size-fits-all oversimplification both about players and situations. Sure if you are a slow-step defender that can be blown around easily that's a reason to play off more and maybe hope that the ball handler doesn't bury too many 3s on you, but a Kelly Faris or another good defender can make all sorts of adjustments up close to feel out a ball-handler's motion on a play and force them outward. Plus, every play can see a variety of distances for the defender as they exercise their dance of feints and set-ups. UConn is always practicing a flexible defensive weave and flow to adjust and throw off the opponents.

But like in football with an open field runner on a last single defender, a big gap allows the ball carrier to go straight at the defender and make a feint and blow-past or lead him one way and cut back the other way once the defender has committed to moving that way. A defender wants to cut down the distance gradually with a balanced approach that allows him to move either way and not get faked out of his shoes. In BB it is similar, and you need just enough distance to be able to react appropriately to the offensive player's moves. A MoJeff on an Odyssey Sims is neither going to play so close that a butt-shove can send her reeling nor so far off that OS will give a feint and then drive her bigger frame past to get in for a likely foul call. MoJeff will play off just enough to herd OS into a UConn defender and a chance for a wrap-around steal.

But again for every pair of players, the nature of both teams' offense and defense, and the situation of the play, there will be many different factors going into a defender's best position throughout the possession.

 

[Geno-ista]

MoJeff's 3-pt shooting isn't really much of an issue since she only takes about 2 a game, and guards do have to occasionally jack one up to keep the defenses honest. Bria's perimeter shooting is more of an issue since she's upped the jacks to 4.5 a game after averaging exactly 4 a game last year at 29.7%. At this point I think you gotta say that's not her strong suit, and I'm kind of hoping she doesn't suddenly go 4-6 in a game because it might steer her in the wrong direction. However, if she suddenly starts burying them in practice, give it a try in a game and see if suddenly you've found the touch. All things being equal, she needs to make a big leap to 37% on 3-pt attempts to equal the team average of 56.0% on 2-pt attempts, but 3s are also used to extend the defense so they can be cut some slack.

UTenn has a situation with their two starting guards where one is a good 3-pt shooter (Massengale at 40%) and one is not (Simmons naturally at 30%). But it is Simmons who is jacking more 3s, though as the shooting guard I guess that's to be expected. The two Vol guards shoot more than 10 threes a game while the Uconn pair average a little under 7 a game, which at least is a bit comforting. And though the teams average about the same on offense, UConn gives up 14 less points, and though UTenn shoots the 3s a little better, UConn's margin over opponent's 3s is higher.

which is a real positive since I believe we have played a much more difficult schedule to date!