How Will Denver Altitude Affect the Final Four?

[Phil]

All teams will be playing at the same altitude.

But if one team does a better job preparing for altitude, they will be better off.

Three days is enough, two, not quite.

 

[Phil]

A very rough rule of thumb (in climbing) is that it take a day to adjust to a thousand feet. The effect of 5,ooo on climbing is negligible, so this means 5 days to be acclimatized to 10,000 feet, 15 days for 20,000 etc. Obviously, it tops out, you can't really acclimatize to beyond 27,000 feet or so (the so-called death zone)

 

[Sonny44]

Actually, you can if you're an astronaut working for NASA.
.

Oh yea, forgot that.

 

[Biff]

I do remember Beamon's jump. I remember a trailing wind and lower air resistance contributed, not gravity.

It's fun to watch...especially in slo mo. There's something just differnt in the last third of the flight where he seems to "float"

 

[Phil]

As noted, no one else came near the world record that day. Had it been primarily gravity, or even atmospheric conditions, other would have been achieving remarkable results as well.

 

[Vowelguy]

Denver is 5,000 feet above sea level. Mexico City is nearly 7,500.

You hear about its effect on the Colorado Rockies baseball team all the time (more homers). I've never heard anyone comment on stats being different for the Denver Nuggets.​

That said, I have heard folks comment on the effects at the Pit in New Mexico, and that is also a mile high.

Then again, the men's tournament continues to hold NCAA games there, and I doubt they'd do that if they really thought it had a significant effect on the outcome.

 

[cohenzone]

The highest latitude I've ever been in was in Peru. Lake Titicaca is at over 12000 feet and there is another smaller series of lakes in that region that are at 14000 feet. The town of Cuzco is at about 10000 feet and Machu Picchu is at about 7500. We spent about 3 days in the transition from a few thousand feet above sea level to Machu Picchu and then on up. Even with that, the thing that was noticeable at 14000 feet was walking at a normal pace was a little taxing. At 10000 feet, a few people in our group needed oxygen. It's hard to say how conditioned athletes fare at higher altitudes compared to less conditioned people, but all the evidence is that when given a few days to acclimate, athletes aren't really bothered all that much in places like Denver.

 

[MilfordHusky]

It's fun to watch...especially in slo mo. There's something just differnt in the last third of the flight where he seems to "float"

Yeah, on the last third, he is very high, gets his legs clearly in front of him, and seems to be gliding with a huge forward momentum. The altitude had to help, but no one else came close to the old record, let alone his mark. Lots of sprint records were set there, and many stood for a long time. But no one else beat the pre-existing record by an insane 6%. This was Secretariat winning by 31 lengths. The epitome of "off the charts": jumping farther out than the tape measure can reach.

 

[Phil]

That said, I have heard folks comment on the effects at the Pit in New Mexico, and that is also a mile high.

Then again, the men's tournament continues to hold NCAA games there, and I doubt they'd do that if they really thought it had a significant effect on the outcome.

Absolutely. Miami played against New Mexico in 2003, and was up 40-29 at halftime, and went on to lose in OT. I'm convinced that the altitude was worth at least a bucket. There's less of an issue when both teams have the same "challenge" but the Lobos were used to the altitude.

I don't think it is worth much, and even less if you properly prepare, but if you don't it might make the difference in a close game.

 

[Phil]

The highest latitude I've ever been in was in Peru. Lake Titicaca is at over 12000 feet and there is another smaller series of lakes in that region that are at 14000 feet. The town of Cuzco is at about 10000 feet and Machu Picchu is at about 7500. We spent about 3 days in the transition from a few thousand feet above sea level to Machu Picchu and then on up. Even with that, the thing that was noticeable at 14000 feet was walking at a normal pace was a little taxing. At 10000 feet, a few people in our group needed oxygen. It's hard to say how conditioned athletes fare at higher altitudes compared to less conditioned people, but all the evidence is that when given a few days to acclimate, athletes aren't really bothered all that much in places like Denver.

I've climbed above 15,000 several times, and above 27,000 once. It has enormous impact above 20,000. Much less so at 10 or 5, but when you are trying to shoot a tiny ball through a tiny hoop and run at top speed, it can make a difference.

I played basketball at 14,000 in Tibet and I was terrible. To be fair I'm terrible at sea level , but I was in the best shape of my life, and I couldn't come close to dunking.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Here is the world record progression over an entire century (scroll down for the graphic):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jump

Beamon went off the charts here too.

Jesse Owens beat the old record by nearly 6" and had his record stand for 25 years. Beamon's record was good for "only" 23 years, but he extended the mark by over 21". No one had gotten to 28', and Beamon blew right by it to 29'2-3/8." He did jump with the wind (as Owens had), but an allowable 2 mps.

 

[Olde Coach]

The gravity delta rounds to zero. The reduced wind resistance is meaningful for footballs and baseballs, but I'll bet dinner it is negligible for basketballs (barring a DT 3/4 court attempt.) The O2 is meaningful.

A 4,000 hour pilot speaking here.

Air density is significantly altered by changes in altitude and temperature. Increases in both altitude and temperature reduce the density of the air (make the air thinner).

Resistance to air drag increases as the square of the airspeed. Thus, air density (or lack of it, because of altitude) has a much greater affect on balls that are initially traveling at high speeds than at slow speeds. Golf balls leave the club-face at 100+ mph. I don't know the initial airspeed of a 400 foot home run, but it is way faster than a basketball.

A basketball shot from the 3 pt arc does not travel very fast. Therefore the drag on the basketball from air-resistance is minimal when compared to a golf ball or a baseball. Assuming the same amount of initial thrust, a basketball WILL go further in the thinner air of Denver than at sea-level; but the difference is very small -- because the speed is slow.

Even the most fit basketball players will tire from oxygen deficit more quickly at 5000 feet than at lower altitudes. So, stamina IS a significant factor; and the athletes WILL need a few more minutes of rest in all games. Thus -- bench strength will play a larger role in Denver than at lower altitudes.

I hope Geno will be giving a lot of practice minutes to Banks and Stokes between now and the Denver games --- because they will be needed for more minutes.

Don't expect to see many players in Denver going for 40 minutes.

 

[phil sampieri]

2 0r 3 days in town will definitely reduce risk of altitude sicknes head aches etc on game day. Hydration needs are greater too, but I'm sure the coaching staffs of these programs will be up on all that stuff.

was stationed in Colorado , at 21 years old, in great shape, ran across the street from one barrack to another and couldn,t catch my breadth. It takes at least 3 or 4 days to get used to .

 

[RockyMTblue2]

was stationed in Colorado , at 21 years old, in great shape, ran across the street from one barrack to another and couldn,t catch my breadth. It takes at least 3 or 4 days to get used to .

Everyone is different, but on average I think you are right - to be safe with your team it should be 3-4 days, and 4 is best. However, to show you variance within the same gene pool, 2 daughters live at East Coast 100-300 feet. They visit us here in the Rockies and one wants to go rock climbing the next morning and one just wants water and tylenol(trade name all rights reserved) or the gheneric equivalent I shove into her trembling hands...next day she's fine. Both know enough to push fluids day of travel etc...line at the sirplane restrooms notwithstanding!

 

[Enigma64]

I remember playing basketball for the first time in Denver. I was holding on to my knee in a short amount of time… It seemed I was sweating at twice the usual rate. I also remember suffering from dehydration after three days. If they’re fortunate enough to make it, I hope the get in early enough to get accustomed to playing at that altitude.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A 4,000 hour pilot speaking here.

Air density is significantly altered by changes in altitude and temperature. Increases in both altitude and temperature reduce the density of the air (make the air thinner).

Resistance to air drag increases as the square of the airspeed. Thus, air density (or lack of it, because of altitude) has a much greater affect on balls that are initially traveling at high speeds than at slow speeds. Golf balls leave the club-face at 100+ mph. I don't know the initial airspeed of a 400 foot home run, but it is way faster than a basketball.

A basketball shot from the 3 pt arc does not travel very fast. Therefore the drag on the basketball from air-resistance is minimal when compared to a golf ball or a baseball. Assuming the same amount of initial thrust, a basketball WILL go further in the thinner air of Denver than at sea-level; but the difference is very small -- because the speed is slow.

Even the most fit basketball players will tire from oxygen deficit more quickly at 5000 feet than at lower altitudes. So, stamina IS a significant factor; and the athletes WILL need a few more minutes of rest in all games. Thus -- bench strength will play a larger role in Denver than at lower altitudes.

I hope Geno will be giving a lot of practice minutes to Banks and Stokes between now and the Denver games --- because they will be needed for more minutes.

Don't expect to see many players in Denver going for 40 minutes.

Holy Molly, what don't you know! But what if the NCAA blows up the balls in Virginia and ships them to Denver?

 

[Dairyair]

Maybe it would have been a good idea to schedule a game in Denver or some other high-altitude city to see how the team reacts.

 

[spoop]

#12 SDSU will have a huge advantage should they make it that far.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Maybe it would have been a good idea to schedule a game in Denver or some other high-altitude city to see how the team reacts.

We probably could wedge one in somewhere...but we might also just pump a little derriere into Gampel to simulate conditions, if you know what I mean....

 

[Dairyair]

We probably could wedge one in somewhere...but we might also just pump a little derriere into Gampel to simulate conditions, if you know what I mean....

You're a gas, Rocky!

 

[schmendrick]

Isn't this a bit premature? Sorry to be a killjoy, but we have to get there first.

 

[alexrgct]

Isn't this a bit premature? Sorry to be a killjoy, but we have to get there first.

The initial question was whether the altitude would impact play in the Final Four. Pretty sure there will be one, even without UConn.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

You're a gas, Rocky!

Hey, inspired by your Avatar it just came to mind!