How to guard Jaedon leedee

[caw]

That's not really how defense works? If Clingan isn't guarding Ledee, who is he guarding? Their 6'6 PF? Why would be do that?

I'm not sure you understand what drop coverage is. It isn't a one man zone the whole possession... it's part of man defense. Drop coverage is a PnR coverage.

Yeah, though I think part of the confusion is that they say Creighton plays a drop coverage. Really though, at least against UConn, Kalkbrenner often does play a one man zone. Edey plays "drop" similar to Kalkbrenner. Both being stronger but slower defenders.

Clingan plays it the way it's supposed to be played because he is mobile enough.

Sidenote: I know some people hate the high hedge but Samson really threw off Northwestern a few times with the aggressive high hedge. They seemed used to Clingan dropping off and weren't ready for it. At least that's how it appeared to me after one viewing while drinking.

 

[navery12]

Donovan hasn't fouled out this entire season, has only had 4 fouls four times in 32 games, and hasn't had more than three fouls since Feb 14. He has the foul thing figured out.

And with Ledee having to chase Samson when Clingan goes out, I feel a little sorry for him.

Other than that, we're doomed.

He has figured it out to a point. But that stat is a little misleading. He does only have 4 games with 4 fouls, but he played 15, 16, 17, and 19 minutes in those games. So he may not have fouled out of those games, but his minutes were severely affected.

He averages 17 minutes in games with 4 fouls, 20 minutes in games with 3 fouls, and 26 minutes in games with 2 or fewer fouls. That's the opposite of what you'd expect. So even if he's not fouling out there's been an impact. There's some injury and blowout impact in there too, but it's pretty evenly spread across the sample.

 

[Scrutineer]

Let ledee shoot 3s all day. He may go 4-15.

He may, but he's 45% on the year. All the rest seem to max out at about 30%.

 

[Scrutineer]

It was a legit question.
And many teams would employ a quick double strategy to get the ball out of his hands. Uconn doesn’t, but it’s not an absurd notion.

Lots of couch potato experts….

Basement geniuses in a couple cases...............

 

[jibsey]

Keep Clingan out of foul trouble is the plan.

 

[Samoo]

He has figured it out to a point. But that stat is a little misleading. He does only have 4 games with 4 fouls, but he played 15, 16, 17, and 19 minutes in those games. So he may not have fouled out of those games, but his minutes were severely affected.

He averages 17 minutes in games with 4 fouls, 20 minutes in games with 3 fouls, and 26 minutes in games with 2 or fewer fouls. That's the opposite of what you'd expect. So even if he's not fouling out there's been an impact. There's some injury and blowout impact in there too, but it's pretty evenly spread across the sample.

Good points, and I was leaning the same direction at first.

I'll counter with his 25 minute average over his last 12 games, which includes blowouts against DePaul (4 fouls) and Stetson (3 fouls).

He also had a stretch of 6 games between Dec. 20 and Feb. 2 where he only broke 20 minutes once and had 4 fouls twice that I think coincides with his return from injury and getting back in shape.

I'm sticking with - he and Hurley have it pretty well figured out, which includes a liberal dose of Johnson to keep DC fresh and to wear down the opposing center, and Donovan being in game shape.

 

[Umami Zen]

Donovan has stepped up his game defensively and is playing with much more discipline and patience. Has been staying on his feet and timing his blocks -Not going for the first fake. Not wasting fouls.

Can see the influence from practicing against Adama last year with his dexterity and offensive moves in and around the basket. Esp. his left hand.
Peaking at the right time.

I would expect some help defense from the team on Ledee until/or if they start dropping some threes from their guards/wings.

 

[tzznandrew]

Sidenote: I know some people hate the high hedge but Samson really threw off Northwestern a few times with the aggressive high hedge. They seemed used to Clingan dropping off and weren't ready for it. At least that's how it appeared to me after one viewing while drinking.

I think that's right. It was very effective. Really disrupted Northwestern's rhythm. Not that they had much of one by the time Samson came in. But other than a missed bunny or two, Samson played a pretty good game on both sides of the ball against Northwestern.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Sidenote: I know some people hate the high hedge but Samson really threw off Northwestern a few times with the aggressive high hedge. They seemed used to Clingan dropping off and weren't ready for it. At least that's how it appeared to me after one viewing while drinking.

I think the hatred for the high hedge is overstated. When you have the right personnel to do it, it can be very effective. When you have the wrong personnel and it leads to cheap fouls 25 ft from the basket, it gets frustrating. Samson’s athleticism and ability to recover quickly are perfect for that role and to your point, he’s been very good at it recently.

 

[Rico444]

I think the hatred for the high hedge is overstated. When you have the right personnel to do it, it can be very effective. When you have the wrong personnel and it leads to cheap fouls 25 ft from the basket, it gets frustrating. Samson’s athleticism and ability to recover quickly are perfect for that role and to your point, he’s been very good at it recently.

Despite the frustration for Samson from the fanbase, he's been much better the last few weeks. He still commits silly fouls, but his defense has been good and he seems to be rebounding at a better rate.

 

[navery12]

Despite the frustration for Samson from the fanbase, he's been much better the last few weeks. He still commits silly fouls, but his defense has been good and he seems to be rebounding at a better rate.

He's played much better, but the rebounding is still not there. He had 6 against Providence and otherwise has had 1 or 2 in 7 of the last 8 games

 

[gsmooth]

On the Brightside, Ledee is not a better a shooter or ball handlers than Oso Ighodaro. His ferocity driving to the glass would be my only concern. I wouldn't want Clingan to have to walkout beyond the 3 point line only to have Ledee run behind a block and driv to the glass.

Is Ledee an outside shooter by nature? No. He scores mainly by posting up or driving to the hoop using his physicality and muscle. However, he can shoot outside if left alone. Oso doesn't make any shots beyond 10 feet because he can't use his push shot for any distance longer than that. Ledee can shoot 3s, but he isn't even as good as Sanogo was last year. Ledee shoots 3s more like Whaley as he has only made 19 out of 42 all year.

 

[gsmooth]

Good. That makes it easier. Since he's not as big or as good as Sanogo, all Donovan has to do is keep his arms up and not reach. Meanwhile, I'd do what teams did to Sanogo and while he's figuring out what array of moves can get past DC, double him with a wing. Let's see his passing skills. Because to score on Donovan he has to dribble, and I really like my chances of our perimeter guys taking the ball if he does that.

It might be similar to the adjustment UConn had to make on guarding Oduro. In the first game in Gampel, which I happened to watch in person, Oduro was cooking Clingan with an array of moves from the post, but moreso where he was dribbling from the perimeter and going 1x1 with Clingan and going side to side and using the spin dribble. That makes it tough for Clingan as he can't guard as well as Sanogo could in that situation (Sanogo displayed great ability to move his feet defensively).


In the 2nd game at the AMP, which I also saw in person, as soon as Oduro got the ball in the post there would be another player, usually Newton, Diarra, or Karaban or whoever wasn't guarding Carter, hover around Oduro and dig. This was done as soon as Oduro put the ball on the floor and turned his back but not immediately when Oduro got the ball. I noticed in PC's games against other BE opponents, especially against Villanova, Oduro’s effectiveness diminished due to this kind of defense. More importantly, Hurley and the coaching staff noticed this, too.

It think playing this kind of help defense against Ledee can be effective. Will it shut him down? No, but I think it will reduce his efficiency greatly.

 

[gsmooth]

I feel like we’re turning LeDee into Giannis in this thread. That’s just not his game. He’s not going to be taking anyone off the dribble from 20 feet out.

He’s a solid shooter at very low volume and only brings it out when he is WIDE open. I’ve watched several SDSU games and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anyone play him out to the 3 point line. Even in the high post they sag off a bit and challenge if he goes up for the shot. Clingan has 5 inches on him. He’s going to be able to effectively contest the jumper without getting drawn too far from the paint on D.

The VAST majority of LeDee’s touches come in the paint either front post-ups, pick and roll, or face up stuff in the elbows/high post.

Ledee outmuscles people with his drives and post ups because, well he is just stronger and tougher than almost everyone he faces. He did this last year, too, even though he is a better player this year.

Watch the reply of the championship game last year at the 1:06:48 within this video when Ledee tries to do this against Sanogo.




This works against 9 out of 10 opponents Ledee does this against, but not Sanogo because Sanogo is a brick wall and stronger than Ledee. He will try to do this to Clingan and then force foul calls on Clingan whenever Clingan drops his arms.

 

[August_West]

Ledee outmuscles people with his drives and post ups because, well he is just stronger and tougher than almost everyone he faces. He did this last year, too, even though he is a better player this year.

Watch the reply of the championship game last year at the 1:06:48 within this video when Ledee tries to do this against Sanogo.




This works against 9 out of 10 opponents Ledee does this against, but not Sanogo because Sanogo is a brick wall and stronger than Ledee. He will try to do this to Clingan and then force foul calls on Clingan whenever Clingan drops his arms.

We may see the occasional double if Ledee is trying to back down Clingan in a deliberate manner. We don't tend to double much, but Hurley was sending guards to scrape down on Oduro the last time we played Providence in certain situations. Although coach seems to like to play straight up because he always is worried about the 3 point line, SD State isn't lights out there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We may see the occasional double if Ledee is trying to back down Clingan in a deliberate manner. We don't tend to double much, but Hurley was sending guards to scrape down on Oduro the last time we played Providence in certain situations. Although coach seems to like to play straight up because he always is worried about the 3 point line, SD State isn't lights out there.

That's what I was suggesting. Running Castle or Newton at him in that situation will disrupt what he does. Especially late in the shot clock, where a kick out now results in a desperation shot from outside. We should be familiar, as teams did it to us until we started getting the ball to Sanogo further out where he could attack or pass facing the rim. It will be interesting to see if SDSU even has Ledee try to back down Clingan. He'd be more dangerous and likely to draw fouls attacking him head on.

 

[jibsey]

I would like help for Clingan on him, doubling at times, not all the time.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I think the hatred for the high hedge is overstated. When you have the right personnel to do it, it can be very effective. When you have the wrong personnel and it leads to cheap fouls 25 ft from the basket, it gets frustrating. Samson’s athleticism and ability to recover quickly are perfect for that role and to your point, he’s been very good at it recently.

Whaley was also elite at it. Sanogo was OK, and his struggles were exaggerated.

 

[gsmooth]

Whaley was also elite at it. Sanogo was OK, and his struggles were exaggerated.

Sanogo was solid and good at the high hedge, but yes, Whaley was on another elite level with it. Whaley was so good at it sometimes the opposition wouldn't run the pick and roll with the man being guarded by Whaley.

 

[bmayuc]

The biggest problem with Ledee is that he has exactly the type of bully ball game w/ stretch big movement that gets Donovan in foul trouble. A pump fake here, a tricky spin to the baseline and shoulder into the defender stuff.

The only way we lose is if Donovan picks up 2 quick ones because we literally have no backup big that can deal with LeDee and we will have to do some weird rotations and they start to grind us down. I love Samson but LeDee is his nightmare on the block .

Should be fine here but can someone just remind Donovan to never jump and just be 7'3 with long arms all night

 

[Tenspro2002]

We may see the occasional double if Ledee is trying to back down Clingan in a deliberate manner. We don't tend to double much, but Hurley was sending guards to scrape down on Oduro the last time we played Providence in certain situations. Although coach seems to like to play straight up because he always is worried about the 3 point line, SD State isn't lights out there.

Usually you don't want to bait underdog teams into attempting a lot of 3s because a high-variance strategy like that is typically one way a heavy favorite can lose, but SDSU is a pretty bad shooting team and isn't likely to repeat the performance they had against Yale.

 

[gsmooth]

The biggest problem with Ledee is that he has exactly the type of bully ball game w/ stretch big movement that gets Donovan in foul trouble. A pump fake here, a tricky spin to the baseline and shoulder into the defender stuff.

The only way we lose is if Donovan picks up 2 quick ones because we literally have no backup big that can deal with LeDee and we will have to do some weird rotations and they start to grind us down. I love Samson but LeDee is his nightmare on the block .

Should be fine here but can someone just remind Donovan to never jump and just be 7'3 with long arms all night

That's the big thing. He needs to be told that it's okay to concede 2 points, 4 points, or 6 points in the early part of the game. Picking up 1 foul is more costly than giving up 6 points.

I hate saying this, but he should learn from Kalkbrenner. Kalkbrenner never gets in foul trouble because he keeps his arms straight up and doesn't jump at all on pump fakes, like at all. Kalkbrenner walls up, so to speak.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The biggest problem with Ledee is that he has exactly the type of bully ball game w/ stretch big movement that gets Donovan in foul trouble. A pump fake here, a tricky spin to the baseline and shoulder into the defender stuff.

The only way we lose is if Donovan picks up 2 quick ones because we literally have no backup big that can deal with LeDee and we will have to do some weird rotations and they start to grind us down. I love Samson but LeDee is his nightmare on the block .

Should be fine here but can someone just remind Donovan to never jump and just be 7'3 with long arms all night

We're going to have to find a non-Clingan solution at some point because LeDee will play 35+ minutes and Clingan isn't going to go much more than 28. Johnson trying to slow him 1 on 1 will get ugly.

 

[bmayuc]

We're going to have to find a non-Clingan solution at some point because LeDee will play 35+ minutes and Clingan isn't going to go much more than 28. Johnson trying to slow him 1 on 1 will get ugly.

Def but easier to figure that out for two or three 60-90 second segments than like 5-10 minute increments. Cant let him get in a rhythm of destruction

 

[Umami Zen]

How is Ledee going to guard Donovan and not foul out? Can't score from the bench.