How much does coaching matter?

[ucp990411]

Who wouldn't want to play for this guy?

And I always thought you were a UConn fan.

 

[ucp990411]

Coaching is critical. God coaching goes beyond what you see on the court

 

[Waquoit]

Who wouldn't want to play for this guy?

Reminds me of Bob Diaco.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are different kinds of coaching skills too. Calhoun is, without question, the best talent developer in NCAA history. How many unrated recruits did he turn into NBA players, and how many non-Top 10 recruits did he turn into college and NBA stars? His ability to pick out a player like Ben Gordon, who I believe only had Gutheridge from UNC, UConn, and a bunch of A10 offers, was amazing. By the end of his career, Calhoun just showing up in a gym would get a player bumped a star and pull 10 offers out of the woodwork. Shabazz was not getting chased by many before Calhoun offered him, and then he got flooded with offers. On the other hand, Calhoun would lose his spit frequently, and he wasn't always the best game coach. UConn/Florida 1994 is one of the worst coached games I can remember.

Carnesecca was a great game coach. He could practically feel the gym, and know exactly which move to make. I can't explain it to people who didn't see him coach. Louie also let a Nigerian 7 footer show up at Kennedy in the winter with no one to meet him, freezing his butt off, and so Hakeem Olajuwon found a Nigerian baggage handler and asked him which place of New York, Providence, Louisville and Houston was the most like Lagos. This has to be the single biggest recruiting screwup in college basketball history. Imagine Mullin and Olajuwon on the same team in New York?

Some coaches make one really big innovation in their careers. Jay Wright was one of the first coaches to adopt an analytics offensive approach together with dribble drive and leaning on really physical players.

I don't think coaches are on a continuum. It is more nuanced.

 

[superjohn]

After Bazz left, Ollie had absolutely no game plan on offense besides iso ball. At least a dozen times a game, the guy who brought the ball down court would throw up a heave without once looking to pass. I'm not sure we can blame that on the divorce.

Ollie looked great that tournament and he should get tons of credit for winning that tournament (also for keeping them together with the previous season tournament ban) but he had the huge benefit of having the best player in the country playing the most important position on the floor.

Bazz was a coach on the court and we had the two best iso guards in the country who could seemingly always create something out of nothing at the end of the shot clock. A lot of our offense was running things down until late in the clock and then letting Bazz (usually) or Boat get a bailout bucket. Once Bazz was gone all the warts really started showing. We really never had a good offense under Ollie and the offense was putrid the last couple of seasons under him.

 

[Rocktheworld]

It was two (mediocre) Big Ten coaches who arrogantly and flippantly dismissed DC last year; not the players.

It was those two Big Ten coaches who did not adjust at all when we were kicking their teeth in; not the players.

 

[djct1999]

If I had to guess, maybe coaching impacts roughly 68.123456789 % of the total result.

 

[Excalibur]

The Ollie title and subsequent downfall still makes no sense to me. He came in and we had this huge exodus of players - Drummond, Roscoe, Lamb, Alex, even Michael Bradley. We basically pulled in Phil Nolan and had to try to win without bigs and go entirely away from the Calhoun model - which had been rolling with Thabeet, Adrien and Sticks across the front line or sometimes Oriakhi and Okwandu playing together with Roscoe at the three.

So Ollie inherited two tiny guards and spent two years (with his staff) reconstructing everything around them and a small lineup and milking everything he could out of Phil Nolan and Tyler Olander. Fortunately he added Brimah, who we needed, but who was raw. Then he got into the NCAA Tournament - and surely if he could be exposed, the gauntlet of Wright, Hoiberg, Izzo and Donovan could have done it. But we were prepared for everything on that tourney run - when we were down 20-10 to Nova and Bazz went to the bench with two fouls, we put a 15-0 run on them. We were prepared for Iowa State and MSU and punched back when MSU went up. We didn’t look prepared when Florida went up 16-4 and were smothering us defensively, particularly getting the ball out of Bazz’s hands, we made adjustments and killed them the rest of the way. Florida went zone in the second half, and we were on it and lobbed them to death to put that game away. We were rolling Kentucky before foul trouble in the first half killed us and turned it into a game, but we played Giffey at center and found a way. Along the way, we exposed bigger guards and didn’t let better front lines expose us.

It was kind of a master class in coaching that year - accomplishing a lot with a little. And then, that was that. He won and it was like he didn’t want to do the job any more. The 2015 team stepped back - and that was fine. DD was an unexpected departure after winning a title and Purvis wasn’t quite ready. But that team two years later with DHam, Shonn Miller, Gibbs, Purvis and Birmah (with Adams off the bench) had a world of potential. And yet they might not have gotten in without the Adams 70 footer and they basically rolled over for Kansas.

The explanation is pretty simple, I think. If all he had to do was coach the players in game (game planning, in-game tactics, and motivation), he would have been fine. But when faced with all of the other aspects of running a major college program (roster construction, talent assessment and development), he was overwhelmed. The best college coaches are relentless micromanagers. He was anything but, so the cracks showed once the existing talent started to thin.

I actually think he'd make a good NBA coach.

 

[Excalibur]

Ollie looked great that tournament and he should get tons of credit for winning that tournament (also for keeping them together with the previous season tournament ban) but he had the huge benefit of having the best player in the country playing the most important position on the floor.

Bazz was a coach on the court and we had the two best iso guards in the country who could seemingly always create something out of nothing at the end of the shot clock. A lot of our offense was running things down until late in the clock and then letting Bazz (usually) or Boat get a bailout bucket. Once Bazz was gone all the warts really started showing. We really never had a good offense under Ollie and the offense was putrid the last couple of seasons under him.

We also ran great sets to get shots for Giffey and Daniels, particularly on inbounds plays. That disappeared after that season.

The 2016 had final four talent and should have been 4-5 wins better than they were.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

We also ran great sets to get shots for Giffey and Daniels, particularly on inbounds plays. That disappeared after that season.

The 2016 had final four talent and should have been 4-5 wins better than they were.

I think Gibbs put a ceiling on that 2016. His wing heat checks used to piss me off bad and in general was just a bad end of game closer. Adams was the better guard that whole year but was a freshman.

If he comes a year early or Ryan Boatright gets an extra year the 2015/2016 squads probably get a lot further than they did in both cases.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The explanation is pretty simple, I think. If all he had to do was coach the players in game (game planning, in-game tactics, and motivation), he would have been fine. But when faced with all of the other aspects of running a major college program (roster construction, talent assessment and development), he was overwhelmed. The best college coaches are relentless micromanagers. He was anything but, so the cracks showed once the existing talent started to thin.

I actually think he'd make a good NBA coach.

Think this is pretty spot on. His guard development stayed pretty good but he was not great with bigs.

Hurley is pretty much the opposite of Ollie as a coach both good and bad.

 

[Excalibur]

I think Gibbs put a ceiling on that 2016. His wing heat checks used to piss me off bad and in general was just a bad end of game closer. Adams was the better guard that whole year but was a freshman.

If he comes a year early or Ryan Boatright gets an extra year the 2015/2016 squads probably get a lot further than they did in both cases.

I hated Gibbs' game. Guy shot the same % from 2 as he did from beyond the arc. 38.7% on 2 point attempts, most of which were at or near the rim. Worst finisher we've ever had.

He and Hamilton did not fit together. We were best when the offense ran through Hamilton, but Gibbs wanted the ball in his hands all the time.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Sometimes a group of players just does not gel. It is usually a bit of everyone’s fault when that happens. 2006 and the 2012 teams are examples of that with Calhoun.

 

[Travelman6]

Two years. Was able to keep Bazz and Boat in spite of JC retiring and the post season ban. The team played well that first season.

Read post 22 in this thread. Those two years demonstrated great coaching. KO lost it after the divorce.

I would even argue 4 years. The round 2 loss to Kansas was an alright year overall and Calhoun had several of those types of seasons as Ollies 3rd. It was the last two years that were an absolute unmitigated disaster of epic proportions.

 

[mauconnfan]

After Bazz left, Ollie had absolutely no game plan on offense besides iso ball. At least a dozen times a game, the guy who brought the ball down court would throw up a heave without once looking to pass. I'm not sure we can blame that on the divorce.

Funny I don’t think you can look at any coaches title without talking about a particular player being on that team, and if he wasn’t? Also this coach was his coach prior to being his head coach, as JCs assistant. Trying to make it anything but a superb coaching job his first 2 years is ridiculous. After that he’s all yours!

 

[UConnJim]

Not even a question. Calipari is a coach.

Calipari WAS a good coach. He took UMass and Memphis to the Final Four and in his first 6 years at Kentucky, he lead them to 4 Final Fours including one championship. Then Calipari focused on recruiting top players (one and dones) instead of developing teams and his teams have underperformed their talent since.

He's about to turn 66 and his Arkansas team is suffering from the same problems his Kentucky teams did. They have really good young talent, but they are not a good team.

 

[connVA]

Your Honor, I present to the court exhibit A: John Calipari.

“Alright team! Here’s the basketball. I guess you need to try to put it in the basket more than the other team. Or something like that. Good luck!”

 

[Waquoit]

Funny I don’t think you can look at any coaches title without talking about a particular player being on that team, and if he wasn’t? Also this coach was his coach prior to being his head coach, as JCs assistant. Trying to make it anything but a superb coaching job his first 2 years is ridiculous. After that he’s all yours!

He was the best player in the country. Not just his team. Again, where did all that coaching acumen go? He showed none of it after Bazz left. He failed in every facet of the job.

 

[FreeKlaiber]

Some college coaches I think are very good and possibly do more with less talent. Brian Dutcher, TJ Otzelberger, Kelvin Sampson,Greg Gard, Jamie Dixon, Porter Moser. Although I don’t like him I think Rick Pitino is one of the best college basketball coaches of all time no matter his teams talent level.

People can hate on him, but Pitino is one of the best ever without a doubt

when I think if coaching matters, I'm thinking of X's and O's and player development. Recruiting not so much because of variables. But culture building is crucial. Watched 270lb Dixon dive into the crowd last night, and then watched his Villanova teammates watch him extricate himself, by himself. Wouldnt happen here.

 

[temery]

Calipari WAS a good coach. He took UMass and Memphis to the Final Four and in his first 6 years at Kentucky, he lead them to 4 Final Fours including one championship. Then Calipari focused on recruiting top players (one and dones) instead of developing teams and his teams have underperformed their talent since.

He's about to turn 66 and his Arkansas team is suffering from the same problems his Kentucky teams did. They have really good young talent, but they are not a good team.

Bullshit. Calipari was a great recruiter who promised to ignore rules, pd players, and followed thru on that promise.

There is no coach who has done less with promising players, than coach squid.

 

[mauconnfan]

He was the best player in the country. Not just his team. Again, where did all that coaching acumen go? He showed none of it after Bazz left. He failed in every facet of the job.

He helped make Bazz who he was as well as Boat. Your hatred is laughable. To take a team that had nothing to play for, with players leaving and turmoil surrounding them to win 20 games was a tremendous coaching job. I was at the PC game at Donut they played their asses off knowing no BE tourney or Dance and they celebrated with their coach. The next year they won it all but because they had a great player it had nothing to do with coaching? Lol hilarious.

Let’s call Roy Williams and tell him he sucked when they won the NC with Danny Manning then because he had the best player in the country. You make zero sense with your hatred, try again!

 

[Waquoit]

Let’s call Roy Williams and tell him he sucked when they won the NC with Danny Manning then because he had the best player in the country. You make zero sense with your hatred, try again!

Did Roy lose all his coaching chops once Danny moved on? What's laughable is saying Ollie "made" Bazz. That's like saying Calhoun made KEA.

 

[mauconnfan]

Did Roy lose all his coaching chops once Danny moved on? What's laughable is saying Ollie "made" Bazz. That's like saying Calhoun made KEA.

The only thing laughable is your hatred actually nothing else. To give him zero credit for that title is a joke no other way to put it. I don’t have any problem with what he became thereafter and attacking that but prior, no denying his impact.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Ollie simply was not a good CEO of a program combined with some of the worst injury luck you can think of.

After 2016 was a mix of season-ending injuries, transfers, and recruiting falling off a cliff. I wouldn’t say his coaching acumen was his downfall.

Jalen Adams was just playing 1 on 5 in those last few years.

 

[uconngb]

Based on today, apparently coaching means a lot