How many plays does a player typically need to learn on an average D1 team?

[Travelman6]

As the topic states, how many offensive sets (or plays) do you think players need to learn under the average D1 team? What about Hurley? Does he teach a lot of sets/plays?

I ask because I overheard a basketball player talking with his team mate, wondering if coach was mad that he missed practice.

The team mate who was at the practice earlier that day said: "Well, we went over many of the plays we are going to run for the year during todays practice so likely yes" he responded.

The player who had missed the practice was apparently new to the team and asked "Well, how many offensive plays does coach have?"

The team mate said "Maybe 25."

The guy who had missed practice was super shocked -- "25??? Realllly? That many?? Wow!!"

So it made me wonder, is that (25) actually a whole lot? Or do many of these D1 teams (or Uconn for that matter, the Ollie years not withstanding) learn that many plays in a season? I know even on the middle school bball team (I played for two years) we had to learn at least a dozen, maybe more.

 

[BlueMAB]

I think he was kidding with 25. Seems like way too many. Unless he's including the variations of the same play, and out of bounds plays (which some coaches eschew altogether). That's the long way of saying "I don't know".

 

[Travelman6]

There was more to the conversation but the team mate struck me as being serious. Plus the guy who had missed practice, well, he spoke English but it was not his mother tongue (well, same can be said for the team mate) so not sure how much a joke like that would have stuck but who knows. Haha, just made me curious! Maybe it does include variations and inbounds plays however and he just did not feel like elaborating.

 

[husky429]

If you were learning a dozen set plays on a middle school basketball team, you had an absolutely terrible coach.

Different teams learn different amounts. Jay Wright, for example teachers "concepts" much more than he does set plays. Cal is another coach that doesn't teach many set plays because of the dribble-drive motion.

Hurley likes to teach the same set up, and same start to plays (ie. A 4 out, 1-3-1, whatever) , but teach different options out of those sets. They're just variations of the same concept. So technically, there may be "25 plays," but the players are really only learning 3 or 4 sets, but practicing options to score within them.

Usually coaches will also have a couple of secondary break options as well.

 

[Travelman6]

Thanks for explaining, that makes a heck of a lot of sense!

 

[BlueMAB]

If you were learning a dozen set plays on a middle school basketball team, you had an absolutely terrible coach.

Agreed, 2-3 sets with 2-3 variations on each at the absolute most. And that's assuming you've got kids with good bball IQ.

Kids need to learn how to play without dribbling. If you can teach the kids how to pass, move, and score without putting the ball on the floor, you'll develop some really high IQ players.

 

[husky429]

Agreed, 2-3 sets with 2-3 variations on each at the absolute most. And that's assuming you've got kids with good bball IQ.

Kids need to learn how to play without dribbling. If you can teach the kids how to pass, move, and score without putting the ball on the floor, you'll develop some really high IQ players.

I would recommend learning 0 set plays with a middle school team. Teach motion principles. Pass and cut, pass and screen away, secondary cutter, etc. Teach the concepts so they can learn the set plays in HS.

I also cringe at every idiotic travel/middle school coach that wants to run a zone (probably 80% of them...). D1 players are still having to re-learn the bad habits taught by these guys.

 

[kcc1442]

As a HS coach I would teach well over 25 over the course of the season if you include quick hitters, motion's (v. man), Zone Offenses, EOBs, SLOBs, Full court offenses, etc. However, I didn't expect the kids to remember the ones we weren't currently using. So for the entire year we would have our staples of 2 or 3 man motion offenses, our zone offenses (maybe 6 or so..Some were concepts, some were quick hitters) and usually about 3 basic EOBs and 2 SLOBs. Then for every game we might equip ourselves with an extra quick hitter or two, an extra EOB, and if needed an extra zone offense. In total my guys would have approximately 15-20 types of offensive plays to know for each game. But many of these are ones that we ingrained in them from the Freshman level up. Only about 1/4 were learned during the week.

 

[BlueMAB]

I would recommend learning 0 set plays with a middle school team. Teach motion principles. Pass and cut, pass and screen away, secondary cutter, etc. Teach the concepts so they can learn the set plays in HS.

I also cringe at every idiotic travel/middle school coach that wants to run a zone (probably 80% of them...). D1 players are still having to re-learn the bad habits taught by these guys.

I agree to an extent. I start with the basics. I don't let the kids dribble the ball and force them to pass and move. Since most coaches run zones, the kids/teams who can learn to make quick passes, move, and find open space, will pick apart a zone. Before we learn any plays, we teach them how to beat a zone, how to pass and move, etc etc.

They aren't allowed to dribble the ball for the first few weeks outside of drills. The best way to beat a press and a zone is when the ball never touches the floor, so that's what I teach. Once they are allowed to dribble I only allow them to shoot coming off a pick, or only allow them to shoot if they got open from a pick off the ball, or on a give and go etc. Something that incorporates what they've been taught.

Usually I have two sets, with 2 variations, that lead back to the original and allow for a reset. I do this because we usually have no problem picking apart a zone, and when the defense goes man I like them to practice running sets that still involve motion. Also, when you're blowing a team out, it's easy to bring them into the huddle and tell them to run both plays twice before anyone shoots. You can slow the game down, get some practice, and not make it insultingly obvious that that is what you're doing. Everything gets hectic late in close games and kids panic. I like to have something they've practiced in my pocket.

Until recently, we have traditionally had a decent feeder program, so by the time the kids are in 6th, 7th grade, they have been taught the value of moving without the ball and moving the ball around quickly and with intent. I agree with you fundamentally, i just think they should learn at least 1-2 plays. I cringe at the coaches that call a play every time down the court. Let the kids create and play on their own.

 

[huskiesouth]

I would recommend learning 0 set plays with a middle school team. Teach motion principles. Pass and cut, pass and screen away, secondary cutter, etc. Teach the concepts so they can learn the set plays in HS.

I also cringe at every idiotic travel/middle school coach that wants to run a zone (probably 80% of them...). D1 players are still having to re-learn the bad habits taught by these guys.

I totally agree with the cringing at having these young kids play a zone, they will not learn how to move their feet, switching, anticipating movement, nada. Many many years ago I was coaching a Y travel team for middle schoolers, the parents got all over me for not having the kids play zone, the Y buckled, told me I had to play zone, I said no I don't find someone else who will, which they did - last coaching gig I did, took up reffing, loved it, got up to Division 2 and Division 3, sadly the time came when the kids got too fast, better known as my losing a step or 3, miss it a lot.

 

[Dove]

20

 

[Mr. French]

As a HS coach I would teach well over 25 over the course of the season if you include quick hitters, motion's (v. man), Zone Offenses, EOBs, SLOBs, Full court offenses, etc. However, I didn't expect the kids to remember the ones we weren't currently using. So for the entire year we would have our staples of 2 or 3 man motion offenses, our zone offenses (maybe 6 or so..Some were concepts, some were quick hitters) and usually about 3 basic EOBs and 2 SLOBs. Then for every game we might equip ourselves with an extra quick hitter or two, an extra EOB, and if needed an extra zone offense. In total my guys would have approximately 15-20 types of offensive plays to know for each game. But many of these are ones that we ingrained in them from the Freshman level up. Only about 1/4 were learned during the week.

That’s pretty much the way I’d describe our program at the HS level, and most other programs that I know.

It’s roughly the same, give or take a few, at the college level.

 

[Jaker]

all of them

 

[Fishy]

Figure you run a base offense.

Maybe four or five sets that you run three or four plays out of each.

Then maybe a half-dozen plays that you might run for a specific circumstance.

When I coached youth basketball in college a million years ago, we taught exactly zero set plays. We showed them what a zone was, but never played it. (The league, correctly, asked coaches not to play zone.)

This is a true story.

Our team was both very small and very bad. I was the assistant coach, my friend was the head coach - we were both maybe 20. A neighboring league (Ansonia?) had a quirk where they had kids a year to two years older than everyone else in the league - and they were good, so they killed everyone.

Their coach ran, I kid you not, UConn’s 2-2-1 press for the entire game. We lost 115-25. Our kids were 11-12 - we don’t even have starters, we just play kids in equal chunks. And they got pressed by 12-14 year-olds for an entire game.

At one point in the fourth quarter, the other team’s head coach is staring at us. We’re losing by 80 or so. But the guy keeps staring. Finally, my head coach asks him what the issue is - he says, “I’m waiting for you guys to take out your starters so I can call off the press!”

 

[Wordbomar]

I coach high school and usually we will have our 5 bread and butter plays that basically make up our basic offense, then we add in one or two for each specific game to take advantage of weaknesses of our opposing team based on what we watched on the game film. Then after the game we scrap them and do the same thing for the next game.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I agree to an extent. I start with the basics. I don't let the kids dribble the ball and force them to pass and move. Since most coaches run zones, the kids/teams who can learn to make quick passes, move, and find open space, will pick apart a zone. Before we learn any plays, we teach them how to beat a zone, how to pass and move, etc etc.

They aren't allowed to dribble the ball for the first few weeks outside of drills. The best way to beat a press and a zone is when the ball never touches the floor, so that's what I teach. Once they are allowed to dribble I only allow them to shoot coming off a pick, or only allow them to shoot if they got open from a pick off the ball, or on a give and go etc. Something that incorporates what they've been taught.

Usually I have two sets, with 2 variations, that lead back to the original and allow for a reset. I do this because we usually have no problem picking apart a zone, and when the defense goes man I like them to practice running sets that still involve motion. Also, when you're blowing a team out, it's easy to bring them into the huddle and tell them to run both plays twice before anyone shoots. You can slow the game down, get some practice, and not make it insultingly obvious that that is what you're doing. Everything gets hectic late in close games and kids panic. I like to have something they've practiced in my pocket.

Until recently, we have traditionally had a decent feeder program, so by the time the kids are in 6th, 7th grade, they have been taught the value of moving without the ball and moving the ball around quickly and with intent. I agree with you fundamentally, i just think they should learn at least 1-2 plays. I cringe at the coaches that call a play every time down the court. Let the kids create and play on their own.

Norman Dale approves.

 

[BlueMAB]

Norman Dale approves.

"My practices aren't designed for your enjoyment."

 

[Travelman6]

Cheers for the great replies, likes all around, thanks!

 

[the Q]

I totally agree with the cringing at having these young kids play a zone, they will not learn how to move their feet, switching, anticipating movement, nada. Many many years ago I was coaching a Y travel team for middle schoolers, the parents got all over me for not having the kids play zone, the Y buckled, told me I had to play zone, I said no I don't find someone else who will, which they did - last coaching gig I did, took up reffing, loved it, got up to Division 2 and Division 3, sadly the time came when the kids got too fast, better known as my losing a step or 3, miss it a lot.

I love reffing zone in travel, but I agree.

But the adults are worst part of reffing.

The kids are easy.