How do One-And-Dones effect APR?

[dogpause]

I can't understand how our APR gets downgraded by players leaving early for the NBA, but Kentucky can continue to have one year players and not take a similar hit. Can someone explain this, please?

 

[Leebo]

You are only penalized for a player leaving early for the NBA if they are in poor academic standing when they leave. Whether their academic standing is poor or not is decided by the individual school.

 

[dogpause]

Thanks, I thought graduation rate was impacted.

 

[Leebo]

Graduation rate is part of APR in a sense, but transfers and leaving for the NBA are exceptions. So only true "drop outs" can bring you down for not graduating, assuming their academic standing is good. Everyone hurts you when their academic standing is poor.

 

[upstater]

Graduation rate is part of APR in a sense, but transfers and leaving for the NBA are exceptions. So only true "drop outs" can bring you down for not graduating, assuming their academic standing is good. Everyone hurts you when their academic standing is poor.

Actually, there is nothing about graduation at all in APR, and that is by design. If you have a metric that actually dissuades kids from choosing a major and taking upper level classes, your grad rate is going to be abysmal. I'm not sure if what Bilas is saying is true but one way schools finesse the grad rate (which is not considered in APR) is to stock the bench with 3 kids who will definitely graduate (players #11-13). So, when you lose 3 or 4 to the NBA and transfers, then voila you've achieved your 50% grad rate (GSR) which is inline with the student body. In other words, coaches expect that NONE of the top players will graduate, but since half of the top players will be exempt from the calculation, they can tip the scales a little bit by adding 3 guys who will graduate at the end of the bench.

 

[Leebo]

Actually, there is nothing about graduation at all in APR, and that is by design. If you have a metric that actually dissuades kids from choosing a major and taking upper level classes, your grad rate is going to be abysmal. I'm not sure if what Bilas is saying is true but one way schools finesse the grad rate (which is not considered in APR) is to stock the bench with 3 kids who will definitely graduate (players #11-13). So, when you lose 3 or 4 to the NBA and transfers, then voila you've achieved your 50% grad rate (GSR) which is inline with the student body. In other words, coaches expect that NONE of the top players will graduate, but since half of the top players will be exempt from the calculation, they can tip the scales a little bit by adding 3 guys who will graduate at the end of the bench.

Well, I was trying to say that it's indirect. Graduation rate isn't mentioned ever, but leaving school without graduating (even if you are in good standing) hurts APR if you aren't transferring or going to the NBA.

 

[upstater]

Well, I was trying to say that it's indirect. Graduation rate isn't mentioned ever, but leaving school without graduating (even if you are in good standing) hurts APR if you aren't transferring or going to the NBA.

Actually it does not hurt APR. This is what I was saying. Graduation has absolutely nothing to do with APR. If you go to a school for 4 years, and you leave after the last semester without graduating, then the school is still fully credited. Graduation doesn't figure into it at all.

 

[Leebo]

I see what you're saying, but you undeniably don't graduate if you leave school, yes? Leaving school (without going to the NBA or transferring) costs a point.

I think the critical point here is the "leaving school" part and it only matters if you have eligibility left. If you have no eligibility left, there's nothing to discuss. Your example involves someone leaving with no eligibility left.

 

[upstater]

I see what you're saying, but you undeniably don't graduate if you leave school, yes? Leaving school (without going to the NBA or transferring) costs a point.

I think the critical point here is the "leaving school" part and it only matters if you have eligibility left. If you have no eligibility left, there's nothing to discuss. Your example involves someone leaving with no eligibility left.

You're talking about retention rather than good standing. As we've said, APR is doubly bogus because it double counts the same accomplishment. Good standing + Retention. However, if a student has exhausted eligibility and leaves in good standing, the school is exempt from the retention point. So, a student leaving after 4 years counts 3 out of 3 points. He doesn't ding the school with a 3 out of 4.

 

[SixRings]

But specifically, how does UK pull this off every year? Consider a student athlete that isn't a very good student; is the fact that a 1 and done is better for APR rather than say a 2 and done? Is it they can squeak by with tutors and advisors for one year or do they not even worry at all about school and drop out before APR is assessed at the end of the year?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

But specifically, how does UK pull this off every year? Consider a student athlete that isn't a very good student; is the fact that a 1 and done is better for APR rather than say a 2 and done? Is it they can squeak by with tutors and advisors for one year or do they not even worry at all about school and drop out before APR is assessed at the end of the year?

Their one and dones take the bare course minimum.

Their one and dones have tudors to ensure their standing is up to snuff.

The university determines whether they are in good standing.

It's the University of Kentucky.

 

[7774]

Their one and dones take the bare course minimum.

Their one and dones have tudors to ensure their standing is up to snuff.

The university determines whether they are in good standing.

It's the University of Kentucky.

They also have kids load up on summer school classes the summer before their freshman year, so if they don't complete all their classes in the spring semester, they still have enough total credits for the year. We have started using this method, which is why you see Daniel Hamilton talking about getting enrolled for summer school.

 

[SubbaBub]

It's about having enough credits to meet your class year. As someone who once received a credit for a one day CPR class. You can imagine how Kentucky kept all those one and dones in good standing.

Three J-term classes equals 9 credits, and a web class and an independent study for 3 more and voila you're in good standing.

 

[upstater]

It's about having enough credits to meet your class year. As someone who once received a credit for a one day CPR class. You can imagine how Kentucky kept all those one and dones in good standing.

Three J-term classes equals 9 credits, and a web class and an independent study for 3 more and voila you're in good standing.

Exactly, students can take any number of electives. The meat of anyone's undergraduate experience though is going to be courses in the major. Unless you are a double major, it's unlikely that you will take upper level courses in more than one major. This is why APR makes no sense.