How did ND get so good? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

How did ND get so good?

If you are looking at this through the lens of the past 9-10 years said:
rivalry[/U] - and the biggest rivalry in women's basketball right now.
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Rivalry perhaps. But hardly an even one.
 
bballnut90 said:
Yeah it was beyond brutal....I was rooting for Rutgers to win since I liked their turnaround story, plus as a Tennessee fan I wanted Duke out (I thought they were the biggest competition for Tennessee that year)...but after the game I remember feeling just horrible about it.
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I guess the Rutgers game evened things out for me. The most memorable, exciting, thrilling sports event Ive ever attended was the 1999 Regional between Duke and Tenn. I'll never forget that for the rest of my life. 20 years ago next March.... where have the years gone :oops:
 
triaddukefan said:
I guess the Rutgers game evened things out for me. The most memorable, exciting, thrilling sports event Ive ever attended was the 1999 Regional between Duke and Tenn. I'll never forget that for the rest of my life. 20 years ago next March.... where have the years gone :oops:
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Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.
 
bballnut90 said:
Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.
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Yes it was.... My seat was on the opposite side of the team's benches. Even though I strongly disliked the Lady Vols.... watching Holdsclaw walk off the court after fouling out and weeping on Summit's shoulder was difficult to watch.
 
ND has the officials in their pocket. Any 50-50 calls will always go their way.
 
Bajan Best said:
Oh please!! you guys make the rivalry seem so close....
Overall it's 36 -12 in favour of UCONN. that's a 3-1 win ratio...
And if you are just referring to the past decade, it's a 2-1 ratio of 16-8

*** UCONN Notre Dame Rivalry ***
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UConn has absolutely ruled the series, but from your link, it appears that the series is 8-8 over the past 16 games (although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish). If Notre Dame wins in December, they would have an edge in the past 17 games. Or if UConn wins, they would have the advantage. Seems to me to be a rivalry over the past 16 games. How many games has UConn lost to teams OTHER than Notre Dame during this period? I would say being UConn's best competition is high praise. No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span).
 
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Niele Ivey. Notre Dame's stars have been guards. Ms Ivey is recruiting them and coaching them. She deserves the overwhelming amount of credit for Notre Dame's recent success. She was there as a player for their earlier success, she is there as a coach/recruiter for their recent success. Her blatantly obvious effect on the recent success of Notre Dame WBB makes her the top assistant in WCBB.
 
I'll tell you why SC hasn't beaten you; we haven't had enough talent in the right places to match up with you That will change beginning next year. I'm not saying we will beat you next season, but the Gamecocks will finally be able to win more than 1 or 2 player match ups.
 
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bballnut90 said:
Holdsclaw going out in that fashion was almost as brutal as Harding's. Watching her finish her career with her worst shooting game ever was very tough to see.
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As an RU fan that Duke Sweet 16 game is arguably the highlight of CVS's entire tenure (neither the elite 8 or final 4 game that year were that exciting). In retrospect, the job GG did with that Duke team was nothing short of incredible, given that I believe there is just one (?) Duke player left in the WNBA from that roster, while RU was starting four future WNBA players in Carson, Ajavon, Vaughn, and Prince. Harding deserved better though.
 
Fightin Choke said:
UConn has absolutely ruled the series, but from your link, it appears that the series is 8-8 over the past 16 games (although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish). If Notre Dame wins in December, they would have an edge in the past 17 games. Or if UConn wins, they would have the advantage. Seems to me to be a rivalry over the past 16 games. How many games has UConn lost to teams OTHER than Notre Dame during this period? I would say being UConn's best competition is high praise. No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span).
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:)Head bang
To me It's laughable that anyone would only want to reference the last 16 games, I'm sorry, why not then reference the last 28 games, (20-8) or even worst the last 8? (7-1) That is like Mississippi State saying in the Last two years they have dominated UCONN. (1-0)

Notre Dame is a reputable and successful program, which I totally enjoy playing against. But the facts remain, UCONN has Dominated the series, anything else is a fabrication of the truth.
 
Bajan Best said:
:)Head bang
To me It's laughable that anyone would only want to reference the last 16 games, I'm sorry, why not then reference the last 28 games, (20-8) or even worst the last 8? (7-1) That is like Mississippi State saying in the Last two years they have dominated UCONN. (1-0)

Notre Dame is a reputable and successful program, which I totally enjoy playing against. But the facts remain, UCONN has Dominated the series, anything else is a fabrication of the truth.
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Fabrication? Did you skip my first line? How more emphatic can I be than "UConn has absolutely ruled the series"? But when people say it's a rivalry, they are talking about recently. And over the past 16 most recent games, UConn is 8-8 against ND. That is not a fabrication. I also wrote (in that same post "No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span). " How many caveats do you need? With my first statement and my last, I thought I gave UConn enough credit. But wait, I also wrote "although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish" I'm sure what you find so offensive about my post. You seem to be trying to twist my post to find something to disagree with. I never said the overall series has been equal. In fact I stated the exact opposite.
 
McGraw has done well at Notre Dame and deserves to be compared to a pair of her contemporaries who also have won two national titles. (Records through 2017-18 season):

McGraw
36 seasons (31 ND) 888-270 (.767)
2 National Championships

Vanderveer
39 seasons (32 Stanford) 1036-242 (.811)
2 National Championships

Mulkey
18 seasons (Baylor) 539-98 (.846)
2 National Championships

But none of these coaches or their programs come close to Geno and UConn:

Auriemma
33 seasons (UConn) 1027-136 (.883)
11 National Championships
Fuggedaboutit!
 
If you want to beat them in the Tourney, stop playing them in the regular season. They learn from that , and can adjust for our speed. Better it be a "suprise" to them.
 
Golden Husky said:
McGraw has done well at Notre Dame and deserves to be compared to a pair of her contemporaries who also have won two national titles. (Records through 2017-18 season):

McGraw
36 seasons (31 ND) 888-270 (.767)
2 National Championships

Vanderveer
39 seasons (32 Stanford) 1036-242 (.811)
2 National Championships

Mulkey
18 seasons (Baylor) 539-98 (.846)
2 National Championships

But none of these coaches or their programs come close to Geno and UConn:

Auriemma
33 seasons (UConn) 1027-136 (.883)
11 National Championships
Fuggedaboutit!
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I mean people can hate Mulkey and even say how she is overrated. However, she accomplished a lot in half the time of the rest. Only one coach even has a better win percentage and that is the greatest.

Give her more time and she will be the caliber of coach as the other 3. Truly respect Auriemma, Vanderveer, McGraw. All 3 get better with each season.
 
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DallasBUFan said:
I mean people can hate Mulkey and even say how she is overrated. However, she accomplished a lot in half the time of the rest. Only one coach even has a better win percentage and that is the greatest.

Give her more time and she will be the caliber of coach as the other 3. Truly respect Auriemma, Vanderveer, McGraw. All 3 get better with each season.
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I don't "hate" Mulkey, but I simply don't think she is in quite the same league with the other three coaches. In my mind, she has underperformed recently, not getting talented teams to the Final Four. And she only won one national championship with WCBB's must unstoppable force during her four years at Baylor. She also, in my view, under-schedules her team, loading up with an out of conference schedule filled with teams that don't belong on the court with Baylor. Finally, she has made some unfortunate personal decisions, like threatening to "punch in the mouth" anyone who questions Baylor following its horrendous sexual assault coverup and scandal.

Is she a good coach? Absolutely. Is she on the same tier as Auriemma, Vanderveer and McGraw? I don't think so.
 
Fightin Choke said:
Fabrication? Did you skip my first line? How more emphatic can I be than "UConn has absolutely ruled the series"? But when people say it's a rivalry, they are talking about recently. And over the past 16 most recent games, UConn is 8-8 against ND. That is not a fabrication. I also wrote (in that same post "No one is saying that Notre Dame has been UConn's equal (UConn 4 NC to 1 for ND during this span). " How many caveats do you need? With my first statement and my last, I thought I gave UConn enough credit. But wait, I also wrote "although Stewie and company were very successful vs. the Irish" I'm sure what you find so offensive about my post. You seem to be trying to twist my post to find something to disagree with. I never said the overall series has been equal. In fact I stated the exact opposite.
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:) The only thing that me and you my good sir disagree on, is the period on which to draw reference. Facts are facts and cant be argued.. Your statement was accurate and so was mine. My question to your response was simply, why look at that specific time period, if you want to look at "recent" why not look at the last 10 games that to me is recent. I am not offended by any means, I am just amused..
 
Reading some of these posts makes me think how spoiled current UConn fans are. I still remember the horrible UConn teams from 2005-2007, led by the likes of Strothers & Charde Houston. Those were the real dark ages.
 
JonathanXIV said:
Yes, in the past decade ND has been our toughest competition, but we're not at parity yet. Perhaps another heading for this thread is "How has UConn stayed so good?"
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JonathanXIV said:
Rivalry perhaps. But hardly an even one.
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Bajan Best said:
To me It's laughable that anyone would only want to reference the last 16 games
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Notre Dame is a reputable and successful program, which I totally enjoy playing against. But the facts remain, UCONN has Dominated the series, anything else is a fabrication of the truth.
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Golden Husky said:
McGraw has done well at Notre Dame and deserves to be compared to a pair of her contemporaries who also have won two national titles.

But none of these coaches or their programs come close to Geno and UConn
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I wanted to respond to a few BY posters in one post, to make my point. And I am responding with due reverence, as I want to clarify what I have said and what I (and others) have not said.

1) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - said that Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame was on the same level as Geno Auriemma/UConn.

2) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - tried to argue that Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame had achieved parity with Geno Auriemma/UConn.

3) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - tried to argue that the overall series with Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame has not been dominated by Geno Auriemma/UConn, as shown by UConn's overall record and overall winning percentage in the series.

4) What people - including me, @Fightin Choke , and others have stated is that in looking at recent history, Notre Dame has emerged as a rival to UConn and that the UConn/Notre Dame rivalry has been the best in the sport of women's basketball for the last nine years. As I explained, in those nine seasons, UConn has an overall record of 331-14. Notre Dame is responsible for 8 of those 14 losses. And in six of those nine seasons, the teams met in the Final Four. UConn has five NCAA titles in the last nine years; in the four years when UConn did not win and lost in the Final Four, three of the losses were to Notre Dame.

In sum, the overall record in the series vastly favors UConn. This is undisputed - and has not been disputed by me or any poster in this thread (to the best of my reading comprehension). By my count, Connecticut leads the series, 36–12. But in the last decade, Notre Dame has again emerged (FF in 1997; National Title in 2001) as a powerhouse in women's basketball and has proven to be a true competitor for UConn.

5) Which leads me to my next point - a rivalry does not have to be even to be a rivalry. Overall, North Carolina leads Duke, 136–111, in head-to-head meetings in men's basketball. At the end of the 1996-1997 season, UNC led the series 118-79 (nearly 60 percent); Duke has dominated the last two decades in the series, winning 32 of 50 matchups (64 percent). Was Duke any less of a rival for UNC back in 1997, when UNC won 60 percent of the matchups? Is UNC any less of a rival for Duke, who has won 64 percent of the team's meetings in the last two decades.

Using another example, at the end of 2016, Rafael Nadal led in head-to-head matchups with Roger Federer, 23-11, before Fed won all four matchups in 2017 to cut the deficit to 23-15. Was Federer not a rival to Nadal before 2017? Surely that is not the case. They have been rivals for the better part of the past decade - and rightfully so.

My point is that there does not need to be an equal percentage of wins/losses for a team to be another team's rival.

6) As an aside, I recall (from back in 2001, on the ESPN board) a number of Tennessee fans saying that UConn was not TN's rival, when Tennessee had 6 national titles and UConn had 2. And I recall similar comments from TN fans on The Summitt back around 2007/2008, when TN decided to end the series with UConn, when said TN fans/The Summitt board posters claimed that UConn/Geno Auriemma were not rivals of Tennessee/Pat Summitt -- and even if they were rivals, said TN fans/The Summitt board posters asserted they were not on Tennessee's/Pat Summitt's level, as Summitt was winning her 7th and 8th national titles (with 18 Final Four appearances), while UConn, at the time, had 5 national titles (and 8 Final Four appearances)

And at the time (2007/2008), I noted -- and repeatedly stated on The Summitt - that UConn WAS TN's rival, that UConn WAS on TN's level, and that the UConn-TN rivaly was the best in the sport.

Now, would @JonathanXIV , @Bajan Best , or @Golden Husky (picking the three of you, since I am responding to your posts) claim that TN is currently a better/bigger rival for UConn than Notre Dame, as the series is closer (UConn leads, 13-9) and the total number of national titles is closer (UConn has 11 national titles and 19 Final Four appearances; Tennessee has 8 national titles and 18 Final Four appearances), even though the schools have not played since January 2007? I do not believe so (but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Would @JonathanXIV , @Bajan Best , or @Golden Husky agree that Notre Dame has proven to be better competition for UConn in the last decade than TN and that, in the last nine years (the time frame I mentioned in my initial post), Notre Dame (UConn leads the series in this time frame, 14-8) is UConn's biggest rival, with the possible other exception of Stanford (UConn leads the series in this time frame, 5-2)?

7) Perhaps the issue is semantics. Maybe this is the best way for me to say this:

  • In the past nine years, Notre Dame women's basketball has been a rival to UConn, with the matchups between the two schools being the best women's basketball rivalry during this time frame.
  • The success of UConn/Geno Auriemma is unrivaled in the sport of women's basketball.

I think that distinction sums this thread up the best.

@ucbart
@CocoHusky
@triaddukefan
@EricLA
 
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@CamrnCrz1974 Nailed it. It's not rocket science but it is an important distinction. UCONN has had numerous rivalries in the past. Rivalries MAINLY (IMHO) consist of at least 1 of the following:
  1. 2 evenly matched teams who routinely face each other OOC
  2. Teams who's fan bases dislike each other
  3. Teams who are among the best in the game and who routinely face each other (ie. in same league)
Rutgers, for example, when in the Big East, was a rival for UCONN. We usually beat them, but it was always an ugly rough and tumble affair and I would say they were our biggest rivals in the Big East for many years.

Tennessee was a rival - fan bases generally strongly disliked each other. Usually the 2 best teams in WCBB.

Notre Dame is a more recent rival - going back to the Big East days and since. Of the 3 teams I mentioned, they are the ones who are the best consistently year in and year out and certainly capable of beating UCONN.

I don't believe there are ANY teams who have "dominated" UCONN historically, and parity does not make for rivals. I don't think anyone would argue that Louisville land Oregon are rivals... Rivals have to play each other and UCONN hasn't played Tennessee for many years. The "rivalry", however, will heat up next year for sure...
 
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Muffet and Geno have a lot in common it seems. What I will say that has really helped Geno is He seems like a more natural recruiter. But when it comes to the way they approach the game and their attitude and mindset I think are similar. Plus they know each other going back a ways. It seems to be a love/hate relationship between the two.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
I wanted to respond to a few BY posters in one post, to make my point. And I am responding with due reverence, as I want to clarify what I have said and what I (and others) have not said.

1) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - said that Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame was on the same level as Geno Auriemma/UConn.

2) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - tried to argue that Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame had achieved parity with Geno Auriemma/UConn.

3) No one on this thread - not me, not @Fightin Choke , not any poster - tried to argue that the overall series with Muffet McGraw/Notre Dame has not been dominated by Geno Auriemma/UConn, as shown by UConn's overall record and overall winning percentage in the series.

4) What people - including me, @Fightin Choke , and others have stated is that in looking at recent history, Notre Dame has emerged as a rival to UConn and that the UConn/Notre Dame rivalry has been the best in the sport of women's basketball for the last nine years. As I explained, in those nine seasons, UConn has an overall record of 331-14. Notre Dame is responsible for 8 of those 14 losses. And in six of those nine seasons, the teams met in the Final Four. UConn has five NCAA titles in the last nine years; in the four years when UConn did not win and lost in the Final Four, three of the losses were to Notre Dame.

In sum, the overall record in the series vastly favors UConn. This is undisputed - and has not been disputed by me or any poster in this thread (to the best of my reading comprehension). By my count, Connecticut leads the series, 36–12. But in the last decade, Notre Dame has again emerged (FF in 1997; National Title in 2001) as a powerhouse in women's basketball and has proven to be a true competitor for UConn.

5) Which leads me to my next point - a rivalry does not have to be even to be a rivalry. Overall, North Carolina leads Duke, 136–111, in head-to-head meetings in men's basketball. At the end of the 1996-1997 season, UNC led the series 118-79 (nearly 60 percent); Duke has dominated the last two decades in the series, winning 32 of 50 matchups (64 percent). Was Duke any less of a rival for UNC back in 1997, when UNC won 60 percent of the matchups? Is UNC any less of a rival for Duke, who has won 64 percent of the team's meetings in the last two decades.

Using another example, at the end of 2016, Rafael Nadal led in head-to-head matchups with Roger Federer, 23-11, before Fed won all four matchups in 2017 to cut the deficit to 23-15. Was Federer not a rival to Nadal before 2017? Surely that is not the case. They have been rivals for the better part of the past decade - and rightfully so.

My point is that there does not need to be an equal percentage of wins/losses for a team to be another team's rival.

6) As an aside, I recall (from back in 2001, on the ESPN board) a number of Tennessee fans saying that UConn was not TN's rival, when Tennessee had 6 national titles and UConn had 2. And I recall similar comments from TN fans on The Summitt back around 2007/2008, when TN decided to end the series with UConn, when said TN fans/The Summitt board posters claimed that UConn/Geno Auriemma were not rivals of Tennessee/Pat Summitt -- and even if they were rivals, said TN fans/The Summitt board posters asserted they were not on Tennessee's/Pat Summitt's level, as Summitt was winning her 7th and 8th national titles (with 18 Final Four appearances), while UConn, at the time, had 5 national titles (and 8 Final Four appearances)

And at the time (2007/2008), I noted -- and repeatedly stated on The Summitt - that UConn WAS TN's rival, that UConn WAS on TN's level, and that the UConn-TN rivaly was the best in the sport.

Now, would @JonathanXIV , @Bajan Best , or @Golden Husky (picking the three of you, since I am responding to your posts) claim that TN is currently a better/bigger rival for UConn than Notre Dame, as the series is closer (UConn leads, 13-9) and the total number of national titles is closer (UConn has 11 national titles and 19 Final Four appearances; Tennessee has 8 national titles and 18 Final Four appearances), even though the schools have not played since January 2007? I do not believe so (but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Would @JonathanXIV , @Bajan Best , or @Golden Husky agree that Notre Dame has proven to be better competition for UConn in the last decade than TN and that, in the last nine years (the time frame I mentioned in my initial post), Notre Dame (UConn leads the series in this time frame, 14-8) is UConn's biggest rival, with the possible other exception of Stanford (UConn leads the series in this time frame, 5-2)?

8) Perhaps the issue is semantics. Maybe this is the best way for me to say this:

  • In the past nine years, Notre Dame women's basketball has been a rival to UConn, with the matchups between the two schools being the best women's basketball rivalry during this time frame.
  • The success of UConn/Geno Auriemma is unrivaled in the sport of women's basketball.

I think that distinction sums this thread up the best.

@ucbart
@CocoHusky
@triaddukefan
@EricLA
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Cam, this is not semantics at all, both of your points should be undisputed. Ironically those that are pointing out that UCONN has had the upper hand in the rivalry and demonstrating two of the most important characteristics of a rivalry. 1) A rivalry forces you to pick a side. 2) That upper hand and all time record matters but not nearly as much as the next game. Nobody talks about UCONN WBB having a rivalry with Villanova. Army lost 14 straight years to Navy in football- that rivalry lives and will resumes in a few weeks. Auburn has not sniffed a national Championship in a while and Alabama has won probably too many lately- that rivalry resumes this weekend. The best rivalry in WCBB resumes on December 2nd-Who you got?
 
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A quick response and clarification. A rivalry does have to be competitive (absent some element that transcends what happens on the court/field, such as Yale-Harvard or Army-Navy). Two teams that play each other with one team winning 80% of the games is not a rivalry. That doesn't mean the series has to be 50-50, but it has to be competitive enough to sustain the interest, drama and anticipation that comes with a rivalry. Agree that today the best and biggest rivalry in WCBB is UConn-Notre Dame.
 
This continues to be an informative, interesting thread. Thank you all. I am glad I started it. :rolleyes:
 
Bama Tennessee is still a rivalry in Football and Bama has beaten them for like 11 or 12 straight years.
 
IrishTiger said:
Bama Tennessee is still a rivalry in Football and Bama has beaten them for like 11 or 12 straight years.
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Is it? I'm sure it is for Tennessee, but I'm not so sure it is for Alabama. Wouldn't that be Alabama-Auburn? Teams generally have one, maybe two rivals. Every game can't be a rivalry game.
 
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