How confident are you

[upstater]

Without a doubt, Nolan was higher rated than Armstrong. No question. Higher rated than Boone as well.

 

[freescooter]

My only point was that Hilton was a better player. Played more minutes on a team that had better front court players. That Nolan was marginally higher rated is interesting but not really important. I said those guys in the group over 100 are at best a crap shoot. Some are better than they seem. Some are not as good. Even as a freshman Hilton played more games, more minutes on a better team with better front line players. Who knows, maybe Nolan develops and in a couple of years he is as good as Hilton was as a freshman. Boone was far and away a superior player to Nolan. Not even close. Hilton was a low level recruit too. Just that he was under-rated. Nolan it appears is not under-rated. I've said right along it happens. Hilton was a hidden gem. Nolan is what you'd expect at that level. Over time maybe he develops into a solid role player.

 

[upstater]

My only point was that Hilton was a better player. Played more minutes on a team that had better front court players. That Nolan was marginally higher rated is interesting but not really important. I said those guys in the group over 100 are at best a crap shoot. Some are better than they seem. Some are not as good. Even as a freshman Hilton played more games, more minutes on a better team with better front line players. Who knows, maybe Nolan develops and in a couple of years he is as good as Hilton was as a freshman. Boone was far and away a superior player to Nolan. Not even close. Hilton was a low level recruit too. Just that he was under-rated. Nolan it appears is not under-rated. I've said right along it happens.

Far and away superior? The Boneyard was on Scout back then. Hilton was a TO machine his freshman year, he actually stumbled a lot. He provided a body out there, he was very Olander-ish. And no, Marcus White could not spell Okafor when Emeka came out of games. In fact, the coaching staff back then did an amazing job turning Armstrong into a shot blocking presence who could hit a J his senior year. Talking about how Armstrong was "far and away" superior back then is revisionist history at best, or a joke.

 

[HooperScooper]

Without a doubt, Nolan was higher rated than Armstrong. No question. Higher rated than Boone as well.

Not true about Boone.

Boone was rated number 54 by Rivals: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-220

He was number 65 by Scout.com: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2003

I haven't seen Nolan that high on any rankings. On Rivals he was #116 (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-2509). Scout.com he was outside the top 100 and a 3 star recruit.

 

[upstater]

Not true about Boone.

Boone was rated number 54 by Rivals: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-220

He was number 65 by Scout.com: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2003

I haven't seen Nolan that high on any rankings. On Rivals he was #116 (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-2509). Scout.com he was outside the top 100 and a 3 star recruit.

I remember on initial interest that Boone was outside the top 100 until he committed to UConn. It was his commitment that raised him in the rankings.

UConn was on top of Boone early. He couldn't get any decent D1 offers as a senior, so he prepped. That's when UConn offered and he committed. Suddenly he blew up--he was a late bloomer. If we're talking final rankings, then yes Boone was higher. When he committed, he was practically an unknown gem. In fact, Gary Williams had to answer about missing on him many years later in articles in the Washington Post. That's how low ranked Boone was back then.

 

[mcs333]

Facts vs rhetoric. Facts win every time!!

 

[freescooter]

Far and away superior? The Boneyard was on Scout back then. Hilton was a TO machine his freshman year, he actually stumbled a lot. He provided a body out there, he was very Olander-ish. And no, Marcus White could not spell Okafor when Emeka came out of games. In fact, the coaching staff back then did an amazing job turning Armstrong into a shot blocking presence who could hit a J his senior year. Talking about how Armstrong was "far and away" superior back then is revisionist history at best, or a joke.

I didn't say he was "far superior" I said Hilton was better. Played more minutes on a better team with better front court players. It was Boone who was far and away superior to Nolan. I don't even think that's open to debate. Hilton was merely better. Jeez, look at our current front line...and the guy barely sees the floor. Hilton was a regular part of the rotation on a team that made a solid run in the NCAA tournament. He was a superior basketball player than you would have expected to get at his place. Nolan is about what you'd expect from a 115-120 level player. He'd probably start at most A-10 schools and all MAAC schools, while at a top level program, even one going through a difficult period, he is a bit player. We all hope that in a year or two he improves and gives us significant minutes. He's most likely a 4-year player if he doesn't transfer to Hofstra or someplace.

 

[HooperScooper]

I remember on initial interest that Boone was outside the top 100 until he committed to UConn. It was his commitment that raised him in the rankings.

UConn was on top of Boone early. He couldn't get any decent D1 offers as a senior, so he prepped. That's when UConn offered and he committed. Suddenly he blew up--he was a late bloomer. If we're talking final rankings, then yes Boone was higher. When he committed, he was practically an unknown gem. In fact, Gary Williams had to answer about missing on him many years later in articles in the Washington Post. That's how low ranked Boone was back then.

Something like that. As a senior he was unranked and had mid-major offers and Rutgers. He decided to prep and UConn offered him after seeing him at the AAU Nationals down in Orlando that summer before going to West Nottingham. Kansas, Georgetown and Virginia (visited all 3 and UConn) were the other schools heavily in the mix before he chose UConn in October 2002. Based on his summer play he was on the radar and once the recruiting analysts saw him play for West Nottingham they put him into the top 100. Not sure if it was the offer list, the UConn commitment or his play that got him ranked, but yes you are correct he wasn't ranked until after the UConn commitment.

 

[upstater]

I didn't say he was "far superior" I said Hilton was better. Played more minutes on a better team with better front court players. It was Boone who was far and away superior to Nolan. I don't even think that's open to debate. Hilton was merely better. Jeez, look at our current front line...and the guy barely sees the floor. Hilton was a regular part of the rotation on a team that made a solid run in the NCAA tournament. He was a superior basketball player than you would have expected to get at his place. Nolan is about what you'd expect from a 115-120 level player. He'd probably start at most A-10 schools and all MAAC schools, while at a top level program, even one going through a difficult period, he is a bit player. We all hope that in a year or two he improves and gives us significant minutes. He's most likely a 4-year player if he doesn't transfer to Hofstra or someplace.

I would not say he was a regular part of the rotation. He got most of his minutes early in the season in OOC play. In 10 out of the last 13 games, he played less than 10 minutes, in the last 5 games he played 2, 8, 4, 3, 3 minutes, and though clearly that team was excellent, Armstrong was Emeka's backup. Marcus White was not. Mike Hayes, in fact, took Armstrong's minutes during BE play even though he was very undersized. I remember thinking that Armstrong would never make it that freshman year. He was totally lost. And Calhoun was hard on him. He got those minutes almost by default.

 

[freescooter]

I would not say he was a regular part of the rotation. He got most of his minutes early in the season in OOC play. In 10 out of the last 13 games, he played less than 10 minutes, in the last 5 games he played 2, 8, 4, 3, 3 minutes, and though clearly that team was excellent, Armstrong was Emeka's backup. Marcus White was not. Mike Hayes, in fact, took Armstrong's minutes during BE play even though he was very undersized. I remember thinking that Armstrong would never make it that freshman year. He was totally lost. And Calhoun was hard on him. He got those minutes almost by default.

All I can tell you is he played in every game but 1 as a freshman compared to Nolan playing in 10/13 and he averaged more minutes than Nolan has to date. And we had a better front line than the current group. Now you are trying to argue that our current front line is comparable to that one? Why don't you just admit that Hilton was a better player than Nolan, which he was, and be done with it? He was one of those guys who was better than his recruiting rank. Nolan is about what you'd expect at his. Not sure why you are so insistent that is not so. And how can you say he was not part of the rotation when he started 22 games and played in 32 of 33. The only DNP came early in the year. You're just denying things for the sake of denying them at this point.

 

[upstater]

All I can tell you is he played in every game but 1 as a freshman compared to Nolan playing in 10/13 and he averaged more minutes than Nolan has to date. And we had a better front line than the current group. Now you are trying to argue that our current front line is comparable to that one? Why don't you just admit that Hilton was a better player than Nolan, which he was, and be done with it? He was one of those guys who was better than his recruiting rank. Nolan is about what you'd expect at his. Not sure why you are so insistent that is not so. And how can you say he was not part of the rotation when he started 22 games and played in 32 of 33. The only DNP came early in the year. You're just denying things for the sake of denying them at this point.

Strawman argument after strawman argument.

I never argued our current front line is better than that one.

According to you, I argued that Enosch Wolf is better than Emeka

Can you see how crazy you sound?

I said that you're talking about or front line when Emeka was our center and Hilton was his backup. END. Marcus White and Mike Hayes could not back Emeka up properly, and yet we saw Hayes take Hilton's minutes. This doesn't mean our current frontline is better. Clearly, Ollie doesn't trust Nolan over Wolf or Olander. What I am saying to you is that Armstrong was as lost that year as Nolan is now, and neither provide or provided anything more than extra bodies. Back then on this board, there was literally no hope for Armstrong--barely anything positive was said about him. This board was astonished by the kid's development. I don't think anyone could have expected it. Even his own teammates generally thought of him as a goof.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

I would not say he was a regular part of the rotation. He got most of his minutes early in the season in OOC play. In 10 out of the last 13 games, he played less than 10 minutes, in the last 5 games he played 2, 8, 4, 3, 3 minutes, and though clearly that team was excellent, Armstrong was Emeka's backup. Marcus White was not. Mike Hayes, in fact, took Armstrong's minutes during BE play even though he was very undersized. I remember thinking that Armstrong would never make it that freshman year. He was totally lost. And Calhoun was hard on him. He got those minutes almost by default.

My memory is that Hilton started games his first year as part of a development plan rather than because he was the best available player. He started and played mostly at the beginning of games. He fell down the depth chart after Boone came and did not show the big improvement until his senior year.

 

[caw]

All I can tell you is he played in every game but 1 as a freshman compared to Nolan playing in 10/13 and he averaged more minutes than Nolan has to date. And we had a better front line than the current group. Now you are trying to argue that our current front line is comparable to that one? Why don't you just admit that Hilton was a better player than Nolan, which he was, and be done with it? He was one of those guys who was better than his recruiting rank. Nolan is about what you'd expect at his. Not sure why you are so insistent that is not so. And how can you say he was not part of the rotation when he started 22 games and played in 32 of 33. The only DNP came early in the year. You're just denying things for the sake of denying them at this point.

Hilton was a better player, but not much better at this point of their freshmen year. Interestingly though, Hilton regressed as the season went on.

Not a single PF on that team was obviously better than Daniels.

Take Okafor out of that UConn lineup and the frontcourt is no better than the current one, deeper though (more scholarships).

Hayes: Olander
White: Daniels
Tooles: Tolksdorf
Armstrong: Nolan
Brown: Wolf
Hazelton: Giffey

It's not a huge advantage either way once you take out Okafor.

 

[SouthTampaBill]

ace, I just looked up Facey. he is now #100 on the ESPN Top 100. Look it up. He has moved up and down within that list,but he's mostly been in the 90s. He is ranked better in the rivals 150, #65 I think.. The ESPN 100 is linked. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/b...rankings/_/view/espnu100/sort/rank/class/2013

Samuel is not rated in the ESPN and is something like 115 on rivals. that is a move up from 125 a few weeks ago. Again, here's the link. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-2752
Nolan was unranked by ESPN and he was 120 or so on Rivals. Not sure what Hilton has to do with any of this. He was one of those guys who wasn't highly rated but developed under the tutelage of a hall of fame head coach. I admitted that those things happen but Nolan isn't Hilton and Ollie isn't Calhoun. So we'll see how it works out. I haven't gone back to check box scores, but I think Hilton saw more action as a freshman on a team that had better front court players. make of that what you will.
I accept your apology.

I have written about Hilton Armstrong a number of times on this board.

We always assume that in the off-season these guys are lifting weights, running, playing a lot of ball. Not so

I sat with Hilton Sr. for 2 hours at a HS All Star game in Duluth, Georgia.

He told me that during the summers between his senior year of HS and his junior year of college, Hilton hung out with his girlfriend and played video games. That's all he did.

His father said he never touched a basketball or trained in any way.

Between his junior and senior year though he took things seriously and played and trained and look at the dramatic improvement and actually becoming an NBA 1st round pick

So if we all think all these guys will come back stronger and better every year, we are fooling ourselves. Some do it and some don't

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I have written about Hilton Armstrong a number of times on this board.

We always assume that in the off-season these guys are lifting weights, running, playing a lot of ball. Not so

I sat with Hilton Sr. for 2 hours at a HS All Star game in Duluth, Georgia.

He told me that during the summers between his senior year of HS and his junior year of college, Hilton hung out with his girlfriend and played video games. That's all he did.

His father said he never touched a basketball or trained in any way.

So if we all think all these guys will come back stronger and better, we are fooling ourselves. Some do it and some don't

Well then I guess more players should pick up the girlfriend and video game regiment during the offseason, since Hilton improved more during his college career than any player in Uconn history.

 

[caw]

I have written about Hilton Armstrong a number of times on this board.

We always assume that in the off-season these guys are lifting weights, running, playing a lot of ball. Not so

I sat with Hilton Sr. for 2 hours at a HS All Star game in Duluth, Georgia.

He told me that during the summers between his senior year of HS and his junior year of college, Hilton hung out with his girlfriend and played video games. That's all he did.

His father said he never touched a basketball or trained in any way.

Between his junior and senior year though he took things seriously and played and trained and look at the dramatic improvement and actually becoming an NBA 1st round pick

So if we all think all these guys will come back stronger and better every year, we are fooling ourselves. Some do it and some don't

I think that was also quoted in a newspaper around when he left, in case anyone doesn't believe you.

Well then I guess more players should pick up the girlfriend and video game regiment during the offseason, since Hilton improved more during his college career than any player in Uconn history.

He really made his huge leap between his junior and senior year, he probably could have been even better if he had trained that way for all 3 summers.

 

[SouthTampaBill]

Well then I guess more players should pick up the girlfriend and video game regiment during the offseason, since Hilton improved more during his college career than any player in Uconn history.

Yes he did. He came out of nowhere his junior to senior year and most of his improvement was in that time period. He stunk it up the rest of those years.

Would you have thought after his junior year that he would be a lottery pick? No one

If he worked hard the rest of those summers who knows how good he could have become

Hilton Armstrong Stat Summary:
Season GP MPG PPG FG%
2005-06 34 27.7 9.7 60.0
2004-05 30 12.4 3.8 51.9
2003-04 35 9.1 2.4 50.0
2002-03 32 10.8 2.8 54.5

 

[freescooter]

My memory is that Hilton started games his first year as part of a development plan rather than because he was the best available player. He started and played mostly at the beginning of games. He fell down the depth chart after Boone came and did not show the big improvement until his senior year.

Again, I'm not saying he was a great player as a freshman, just that he was a better player than Nolan is now. All the evidence supports my view. Games played: Hilton has more. Starts:Hilton, Minutes: Hilton. And he did it on a team that went to the Sweet 16. this team, even if it were eligible, would be a bubble team precisely because it doesn't have a good front line. Wolf is backup on most top teams. Daniels is more a 3 than a 4. Calhoun is most likely a 2 long term. Olander is a role player. Giffey is a role player. Tolksdorf is a pine brother. We're of necessity playing something much more like a 3 guard lineup most of the time. And Nolan barely gets off the bench. In my mind Hilton was a better player as a freshman than Nolan is. But that's beside the point. My whole argument, which seems to have gotten lost in all this, is that Nolan was a mid-level recruit who is living up to his billing. And expecting a mid-level recruit to play like Senior Hilton Armstrong is crazy. We agree that Hilton Armstrong the freshman was not as good as Hilton the senior. But also assuming a mid-level recruit will develop to that degree is equally foolish. For every Hilton Armstrong there are a couple of guys who are little more than journeymen or who don't hang around. That is the whole point. When you take guys over 100, it is a crap shoot. Most of them can only play at this level as role players if they can do it at all. Occasionally you find a hidden gem.

 

[aceboon]

No, your exact words were "very low-level recruit", which is where all of the debate began.

Again, I'm not saying he was a great player as a freshman, just that he was a better player than Nolan is now. All the evidence supports my view. Games played: Hilton has more. Starts:Hilton, Minutes: Hilton. And he did it on a team that went to the Sweet 16. this team, even if it were eligible, would be a bubble team precisely because it doesn't have a good front line. Wolf is backup on most top teams. Daniels is more a 3 than a 4. Calhoun is most likely a 2 long term. Olander is a role player. Giffey is a role player. Tolksdorf is a pine brother. We're of necessity playing something much more like a 3 guard lineup most of the time. And Nolan barely gets off the bench. In my mind Hilton was a better player as a freshman than Nolan is. But that's beside the point. My whole argument, which seems to have gotten lost in all this, is that Nolan was a mid-level recruit who is living up to his billing. And expecting a mid-level recruit to play like Senior Hilton Armstrong is crazy. We agree that Hilton Armstrong the freshman was not as good as Hilton the senior. But also assuming a mid-level recruit will develop to that degree is equally foolish. For every Hilton Armstrong there are a couple of guys who are little more than journeymen or who don't hang around. That is the whole point. When you take guys over 100, it is a crap shoot. Most of them can only play at this level as role players if they can do it at all. Occasionally you find a hidden gem.

 

[freescooter]

No, your exact words were "very low-level recruit", which is where all of the debate began.

Low level by UConn/top program standards. See my definitions posted above.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Pretty much how I feel, Boat, Bazz, Omar & DeAndre should all be better than what they are this year, except possibly Bazz who is already playing at a very high level. That should be one of the best perimeter cores in the country next year. All we need is bigs to rebound, set screens, defend and score the occasional garbage bucket and I think we'll be fine on that end. Obviously the biggest issue is rebounding and defending the paint tho, Wolf seems to be trying to get there but consistency and avoiding fouls is his biggest issue. Another offseason of putting in work and hopefully he'll get to the point where he is reliable.

I think wolf could be a rock solid back up at the five next year. i can see an improved wolf coming off the bench backing up amidah(if we get him of course) with nolan and facey at the pf spot.

 

[ctchamps]

Pretty much how I feel, Boat, Bazz, Omar & DeAndre should all be better than what they are this year, except possibly Bazz who is already playing at a very high level. That should be one of the best perimeter cores in the country next year. All we need is bigs to rebound, set screens, defend and score the occasional garbage bucket and I think we'll be fine on that end. Obviously the biggest issue is rebounding and defending the paint tho, Wolf seems to be trying to get there but consistency and avoiding fouls is his biggest issue. Another offseason of putting in work and hopefully he'll get to the point where he is reliable.

If Nolan and EW improve, UConn lands a legit five who can give some minutes and get rebounds, UConn can move TO back to the four and he can be subbed with Facey, and DD can move back to the three. KO will have lots of potential line ups that he can utilize.

 

[Huskymaniac]

One of the claims made on this board over and over again is how great of a recruiter Ollie is and how the kids love him. Why shouldn't he be able to outrecruit Pastner then? And if Pastner outrecruited Calhoun, why? What exactly does Pastner have to sell that Calhoun didn't? Was he in the hall of fame too? More championships? More players in the NBA? A kentucky-like rabid fan base? A kentucky-like storied history? Warm sunny beaches?

And then tell me what he has to sell that Ollie doesn't? KO may end up being a great coach but he hasn't shown he is HOF coaching material yet. The one thing he could and, maybe, should, bring is great recruiting. He is just as youthful and energetic as any of these other guys are. He has actually PLAYED with Lebron and Durant. Please tell me why Pastner should outrecruit him.

 

[upstater]

One of the claims made on this board over and over again is how great of a recruiter Ollie is and how the kids love him. Why shouldn't he be able to outrecruit Pastner then? And if Pastner outrecruited Calhoun, why? What exactly does Pastner have to sell that Calhoun didn't? Was he in the hall of fame too? More championships? More players in the NBA? A kentucky-like rabid fan base? A kentucky-like storied history? Warm sunny beaches?

And then tell me what he has to sell that Ollie doesn't? KO may end up being a great coach but he hasn't shown he is HOF coaching material yet. The one thing he could and, maybe, should, bring is great recruiting. He is just as youthful and energetic as any of these other guys are. He has actually PLAYED with Lebron and Durant. Please tell me why Pastner should outrecruit him.

Everyone is wondering why Memphis outrecruits people. Everyone wonders why Baylor outrecruits people too! And UNLV. We will keep wondering until we have an answer.

 

[aceboon]

Nobody said he shouldn't be able to outrecruit Pastner, posters were arguing your claim that if he can't outrecruit Pastner then he shouldn't be coach, which is just a moronic comment. Pastner had the #1 recruiting class a couple of years ago and is one of the best the recruiters in the country, dude was basically recruiting for Arizona back when he was a "walk-on", and I use quotations because his AAU ties was the main reason he was on the team. I for one think KO will be a very good recruiter, but to make that claim that you did sounds like you weren't aware of Pastner's clout in the recruiting world.

One of the claims made on this board over and over again is how great of a recruiter Ollie is and how the kids love him. Why shouldn't he be able to outrecruit Pastner then? And if Pastner outrecruited Calhoun, why? What exactly does Pastner have to sell that Calhoun didn't? Was he in the hall of fame too? More championships? More players in the NBA? A kentucky-like rabid fan base? A kentucky-like storied history? Warm sunny beaches?

And then tell me what he has to sell that Ollie doesn't? KO may end up being a great coach but he hasn't shown he is HOF coaching material yet. The one thing he could and, maybe, should, bring is great recruiting. He is just as youthful and energetic as any of these other guys are. He has actually PLAYED with Lebron and Durant. Please tell me why Pastner should outrecruit him.