Houston Astros TV debacle

[whaler11]

http://www.whatyoupayforsports.com/2013/10/comcast-gives-up-on-csn-houston/

 

[noeynox]

Good article. The following is an eye opener;

If the failure of CSN Houston teaches us anything, it is this: there are definite limits to how much pay TV subscribers are willing to foot the bill for sports. Regional sports networks are starting to crash into those limits, and national sports networks aren’t too far behind. As the TV market continues to evolve and carriers stand up to network demands for more money, we will see more stories like this. Houston is just the start. Los Angeles could be next.

Being on the outside looking in gets scarier by the minute if your a UConn fan.

 

[whaler11]

I think it makes being on the inside dangerous. You spend money that you think exists and in the end it doesn't.

I don't think anyone mentioned it here but Fox bought a controlling interest in YES.

So two thoughts:
1. The BTN battle in NYC is going to be very interesting now that Fox has the controlling share to leverage YES.

2. My initial reaction when it was a topic on the FAN saturday morning was it may have been a brilliant time to sell high. Evan Roberts and the baseball writer guest were both confounded by the move. Why else would the Yankees sell?

 

[Fishy]

If being on the inside is dangerous, those on the outside are already dead.

We're playing the game as if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If there isn't, this will end poorly for us.

 

[Chin Diesel]

If being on the inside is dangerous, those on the outside are already dead.

We're playing the game as if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If there isn't, this will end poorly for us.

Unfortunately for UConn fans the light could end up being a head-0n with a runaway freight train.

 

[zls44]

http://www.whatyoupayforsports.com/2013/10/comcast-gives-up-on-csn-houston/

Old article, but gets to most of the key details. This thing has been a fascinating train wreck, yet another sign that NBC/Comcast don't really have a sports strategy other than they'd like to have some sports networks, all of them should be valuable even if the content isn't top-rate.

Here's the latest: http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastro...ation-process-in-csn-houston-bankruptcy-case/

 

[ZooCougar]

Wow. That whole Cable Tv bubble is about to pop. And the Astros don't have a local carrier. This is like awesome. Chaos and another sign of baseball's long kiss good night. Au revoir.

 

[UConnJim]

If being on the inside is dangerous, those on the outside are already dead.

We're playing the game as if there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If there isn't, this will end poorly for us.

I disagree. UConn can hold its own if UConn sports were a la carte in CT. Think about it, UConn football, men's and women's basketball, soccer, hockey, ... How much would people pay in CT? More importantly, there is actually a market that wants the content.

If pulling your weight becomes the key factor for being included, I like UConn's chances. There are many schools that would be in trouble that are currently "included".

 

[Macho Grande]

Well, we should remember that Cable TV media rights of Big Ten are still different fom the first tier rights that ABC/ESPN are paying for. Lets say the B1G network shuts down tomorrow, the B1G is still making 20 million per university from ABC/ESPN. There's still a big gap between 2mill for each AAC member vs the P5 members. But if things move toward online streaming of programs in the "pay for what you want model", UCONN could leverage its popularity individually.

 

[whaler11]

Well, we should remember that Cable TV media rights of Big Ten are still different fom the first tier rights that ABC/ESPN are paying for. Lets say the B1G network shuts down tomorrow, the B1G is still making 20 million per university from ABC/ESPN. There's still a big gap between 2mill for each AAC member vs the P5 members. But if things move toward online streaming of programs in the "pay for what you want model", UCONN could leverage its popularity individually.

We all know that, and clearly it's organizations that ate more dependent on local contracts with more immediate risk.

When the tipping point comes, it will pick up a lot of momentum and sports are going to get more expensive quickly for those of us that want to watch.

 

[noeynox]

I disagree. UConn can hold its own if UConn sports were a la carte in CT. Think about it, UConn football, men's and women's basketball, soccer, hockey, ... How much would people pay in CT? More importantly, there is actually a market that wants the content.

If pulling your weight becomes the key factor for being included, I like UConn's chances. There are many schools that would be in trouble that are currently "included".

But those schools are currently included. Hard to see them being jettisoned. What I could see is a collective agreement to not bring in any more mouths to feed and divy up the pie anymore.

 

[UConnJim]

But those schools are currently included. Hard to see them being jettisoned. What I could see is a collective agreement to not bring in any more mouths to feed and divy up the pie anymore.

Disagree. Look at each conference and see who actually pulls their weight when it comes to media rights fees. If conference networks and/or a la carte pricing becomes the trend, it will become apparent to conferences which schools pull their weight and which don't. And, this trend would create more tension within individual conferences as some conferences will be very successful and some won't.

The Big 10, SEC, and PAC 12 are built with the future in mind as most schools could pull in their home states. Look at the recent adds to the three conferences: Utah, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, Maryland, and Rutgers. All state flagship universities that could pull their states into a conference network. (Florida St and Clemson have no chance of joining the SEC as the SEC already has enough pull in those states.)

The ACC has really blown conference expansion if conference networks become revenue drivers by selecting private schools (Miami, BC, Syracuse) and second fiddle state schools (Pitt, Louisville) and missed out on grabbing Rutgers and UConn (so far) and failing to hold onto Maryland.

In the ACC, there are a handful of premier properties for a conference network: Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and possibly Duke. There is value in some other schools like NC St, Georgia Tech, and possibly Syracuse to a conference network. Miami adds content, but it wouldn't be that valuable to adding subs to a conference network. Louisville is hard to call, but Wake Forest, BC, and Pitt would add few guaranteed subs to a conference network.

Here is a 16 school conference that would be a conference channel powerhouse of schools from ACC and Big 12: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas St, Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, NC St, Georgia Tech, Miami. Perhaps Notre Dame replaces one of the schools.

 

[whaler11]

For what it's worth Louisville is generally the highest rated market in the country for CBB.

 

[ZooCougar]

For what it's worth Louisville is generally the highest rated market in the country for CBB.

Which makes perfect sense given that the place is filled with UK, Louisville and a smattering of IU fans (which is really just up the road a bit).

 

[whaler11]

Which makes perfect sense given that the place is filled with UK, Louisville and a smattering of IU fans (which is really just up the road a bit).

Oh yeah I wasn't trying to infer they are all Louisville fans. But clearly they have broad enough support and hatred for each other that the games are getting watched.

 

[CardinalJim]

Which makes perfect sense given that the place is filled with UK, Louisville and a smattering of IU fans (which is really just up the road a bit).

Actually UK fans are almost non existent in the city. Louisville / Jefferson County is listed as the 16th largest city in the country. The largest without any professional sports by the way. With that being said, UK hasn't sold out a game in Louisville that didn't include UofL or IU in over 20 years. Last season UK quietly quit scheduling their annual game in Louisville due to lack of interest.

As popular as The SEC is in its member states, The Bluegrass is something of an anomaly. UK games, that are not part of ESPN package, are shown taped delayed in Louisville, usually at 1AM Sunday mornings. UK spent 1 million to buy rights on local radio in Louisville because they couldn't sell advertising to pay for the broadcasts.

As for IU, most are north of Floyd, Clark and Harrison counties that are primarily bedroom communities for Louisville. The Sunnyside Cardinal Club is one of UofL's largest, most active alumni groups. Keep in mind that IU is actually further from Louisville than Boston is from Storrs.

Louisville fans follow college basketball. Personally I don't know why. I am a football first fan. Basketball is boring to me. With that being said Louisville always leads the nation in college basketball viewership even the years UK doesn't make the tourney like last season.

As for college football, Louisville was a Top 10 market this past season. Coming in tied with Atlanta, ahead of Charlotte, Austin and Dallas.


It is difficult for anyone that doesn't live in Louisville to understand the relationship the residents have with the university. Louisville is the city's team.
CJ

 

[WestHartHusk]

Actually UK fans are almost non existent in the city. Louisville / Jefferson County is listed as the 16th largest city in the country. The largest without any professional sports by the way. With that being said, UK hasn't sold out a game in Louisville that didn't include UofL or IU in over 20 years. Last season UK quietly quit scheduling their annual game in Louisville due to lack of interest.

As popular as The SEC is in its member states, The Bluegrass is something of an anomaly. UK games, that are not part of ESPN package, are shown taped delayed in Louisville, usually at 1AM Sunday mornings. UK spent 1 million to buy rights on local radio in Louisville because they couldn't sell advertising to pay for the broadcasts.

As for IU, most are north of Floyd, Clark and Harrison counties that are primarily bedroom communities for Louisville. The Sunnyside Cardinal Club is one of UofL's largest, most active alumni groups. Keep in mind that IU is actually further from Louisville than Boston is from Storrs.

Louisville fans follow college basketball. Personally I don't know why. I am a football first fan. Basketball is boring to me. With that being said Louisville always leads the nation in college basketball viewership even the years UK doesn't make the tourney like last season.

As for college football, Louisville was a Top 10 market this past season. Coming in tied with Atlanta, ahead of Charlotte, Austin and Dallas.


It is difficult for anyone that doesn't live in Louisville to understand the relationship the residents have with the university. Louisville is the city's team.
CJ

Louisville is nowhere near #16 in the real world. It is 48 as a market and behind Austin, Vegas and well behind Hartford as cities without pro sports.

The 16 comes from a forced merger of the city with the county to address racial discrimation in the schools. If Hartford (which is incredibly small geographically) did the same thing it would be a city of over 1,000,000.

More smoke and mirrors the da'Ville.

 

[ZooCougar]

Suuuure, fuzzy math, largest city in your sad depressing state and no Kentucky fans live there. That passes the smell test.

Actually UK fans are almost non existent in the city. Louisville / Jefferson County is listed as the 16th largest city in the country. The largest without any professional sports by the way. With that being said, UK hasn't sold out a game in Louisville that didn't include UofL or IU in over 20 years. Last season UK quietly quit scheduling their annual game in Louisville due to lack of interest.

As popular as The SEC is in its member states, The Bluegrass is something of an anomaly. UK games, that are not part of ESPN package, are shown taped delayed in Louisville, usually at 1AM Sunday mornings. UK spent 1 million to buy rights on local radio in Louisville because they couldn't sell advertising to pay for the broadcasts.

As for IU, most are north of Floyd, Clark and Harrison counties that are primarily bedroom communities for Louisville. The Sunnyside Cardinal Club is one of UofL's largest, most active alumni groups. Keep in mind that IU is actually further from Louisville than Boston is from Storrs.

Louisville fans follow college basketball. Personally I don't know why. I am a football first fan. Basketball is boring to me. With that being said Louisville always leads the nation in college basketball viewership even the years UK doesn't make the tourney like last season.

As for college football, Louisville was a Top 10 market this past season. Coming in tied with Atlanta, ahead of Charlotte, Austin and Dallas.


It is difficult for anyone that doesn't live in Louisville to understand the relationship the residents have with the university. Louisville is the city's team.
CJ

 

[storrsroars]

Disagree. Look at each conference and see who actually pulls their weight when it comes to media rights fees. If conference networks and/or a la carte pricing becomes the trend, it will become apparent to conferences which schools pull their weight and which don't. And, this trend would create more tension within individual conferences as some conferences will be very successful and some won't.

The Big 10, SEC, and PAC 12 are built with the future in mind as most schools could pull in their home states. Look at the recent adds to the three conferences: Utah, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, Maryland, and Rutgers. All state flagship universities that could pull their states into a conference network. (Florida St and Clemson have no chance of joining the SEC as the SEC already has enough pull in those states.)

The ACC has really blown conference expansion if conference networks become revenue drivers by selecting private schools (Miami, BC, Syracuse) and second fiddle state schools (Pitt, Louisville) and missed out on grabbing Rutgers and UConn (so far) and failing to hold onto Maryland.

In the ACC, there are a handful of premier properties for a conference network: Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and possibly Duke. There is value in some other schools like NC St, Georgia Tech, and possibly Syracuse to a conference network. Miami adds content, but it wouldn't be that valuable to adding subs to a conference network. Louisville is hard to call, but Wake Forest, BC, and Pitt would add few guaranteed subs to a conference network.

Simply from a pragmatic viewpoint with no homerism, I tend to agree with this assessment as it pertains to UConn. IMO, after PSU, UConn is the strongest combination of content & market in the New England/Mid-Atlantic. If the B1G were to select UConn, it's an easier sell to get $ for BTN in CT than it would in most other markets they're rumored to be considering. If CR and TV contracts go to hell in a handbasket, UConn is still in great position to cut its own deal. The worst case scenario for TV revenue might well be our current position.

 

[Dooley]

From a baseball perspective because I'm a baseball junkie, it's too bad the fans in Houston are throwing the baby 'Stros out with the bathwater. Granted, the new owner had to borrow millions to buy the Astros and I think Selig used this to his advantage to move Houston to the AL to balance the Leagues. But their minor league system was putrid for decades and they could not lure top free agents to play there. Tearing it down was LONG overdue. They invested millions in bringing in top statistic analysts and player development. Springer (UCONN!), Singleton, Correa, and Appel give the franchise their first crop of top prospects that the Astros haven't had in a very long time. Once they develop a few players into major league ready, then they can start to spend the necessary money to bring in complimentary veteran pieces.

Baseball diatribe over. Onto UCONN…what would it take for UCONN to begin their own TV network? We all know that UCONN won't be able to compete with regional rivals in the ACC and B1G living on the peanuts that ESPiN is paying for the AAC TV contract. I know next to nothing about Tier rights and subscriber rates, so my question comes solely from a curious nature. Can UCONN begin a Husky Network while we improve our B1G profile and sit in AAC purgatory? Then, if we ever are invited to a top conference, we can sell off the network similar to YES selling to FOX? Or are we screwed because our content belongs to the AAC/ESPiN for peanuts? We clearly have the market and interest to start a network. If it aired football, basketball, hockey, baseball, etc…it would be a success. It could be a more attractive option than having to stream games on a third party website plus it would be a good thing to build hockey and baseball.

 

[ZooCougar]

From a baseball perspective because I'm a baseball junkie, it's too bad the fans in Houston are throwing the baby 'Stros out with the bathwater. Granted, the new owner had to borrow millions to buy the Astros and I think Selig used this to his advantage to move Houston to the AL to balance the Leagues. But their minor league system was putrid for decades and they could not lure top free agents to play there. Tearing it down was LONG overdue. They invested millions in bringing in top statistic analysts and player development. Springer (UCONN!), Singleton, Correa, and Appel give the franchise their first crop of top prospects that the Astros haven't had in a very long time. Once they develop a few players into major league ready, then they can start to spend the necessary money to bring in complimentary veteran pieces.

Baseball diatribe over. Onto UCONN…what would it take for UCONN to begin their own TV network? We all know that UCONN won't be able to compete with regional rivals in the ACC and B1G living on the peanuts that ESPiN is paying for the AAC TV contract. I know next to nothing about Tier rights and subscriber rates, so my question comes solely from a curious nature. Can UCONN begin a Husky Network while we improve our B1G profile and sit in AAC purgatory? Then, if we ever are invited to a top conference, we can sell off the network similar to YES selling to FOX? Or are we screwed because our content belongs to the AAC/ESPiN for peanuts? We clearly have the market and interest to start a network. If it aired football, basketball, hockey, baseball, etc…it would be a success. It could be a more attractive option than having to stream games on a third party website plus it would be a good thing to build hockey and baseball.

I don't know either. But based on the little that I do know, I guess it depends on our Tier 3 rights.

There might be an appetite for a Husky Network if we bundled it with minor league baseball (meh!) and minor league hockey. This sort of thing takes vision. Not sure how SNY would like it.

Maybe we just need to convince SNY to buy more content. How does it work with hockey and baseball? Can we sell those games?

It seems like we have built up some brand equity over the years with SNY. Maybe we need to expand that relationship.