House of Dragon, GoT Prequil

[temery]

I have to admit, it took me several tries over several years to binge watch GoT. I've never been into zombie shows, and after the first episode or two it looked like that's what GoT was going to be.

Once I stuck with it, I liked it. Not as much as all the hype, but it was good.

Just watch the first episode of House of Dragons. It begins 172 years before GoT. Has a medieval England feel to it that I don't remember seeing in GoT.

The basic theme will apparently be who gets to sit on the iron throne. Not sure if GoT ever mentioned whether or not a queen ruled, but it's pretty obvious the king's young daughter will eventually be his heir after the family feud plays out. As they say, "The only thing that can bring down the House of Dragons, is itself."


Oh - no zombies so far, but lots of blondes.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The ice zombies were by far my least favorite part of Game of Thrones. With 8+ years to come up with a motivation for the ice zombies, the best the writers could do is that the night king was a weapon’s program gone awry and that they wanted to kill Bran, That whole plot arc was pointless, and then what could have been a really interesting showdown of all the leading families at Kings Landing became one decent special effects battle and a handful of characters sitting in a semi circle looking at Tyrion, with all of that plus the post mortem crammed into 3 episodes, because the show burned so much screen time on the ice zombies.

I streamed House of Dragons on my phone last night because I am traveling. I want to watch it on a bigger screen, but I liked what I saw so far.

 

[temery]

'House of the Dragon' nabs 9.99 million viewers, best HBO series premiere ever

HBO's "House of the Dragon" drew the largest audience in the channel's history with 9.99 million viewers on Sunday night.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Deepster]

I was a voracious GoT fan, couldn't wait for the final season and have been disappointed with the ending from the day it happened. I never even went back to watch the finale a second time.

I went into last Sunday a little guarded to see if they could recapture the magic...or learn from mistakes in the first series. I felt like they tried a little too hard to shock value some scenes with the hacked limbs, etc. Trying to fast forward some of the strategic roundtable conversations too quickly. Let the characters and storylines take their time to take shape. Tap the brakes a little.

Still, that said, I enjoyed it. Good to have something GoT-like back on TV.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I thought it was ok. There was something generic about it that i cant quite put my finger on. The young girl who is setting up to be queen really distracted me with a set of teeth far too large for her head.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Through two episodes, I really like it. I have a minor quibble that she is too badass right out of the gate. Arya was a bit of a sociopath in the beginning, but she was mostly running and hiding until season 2. Sansa was a total screw up through about 5 seasons before she got her act together.

This blond girl stops a bloodbath in the second episode? I guess we are just jumping right in it.

Or maybe that is the point. Everyone is presented as much more competent in HotD than in GoT, where the show made clear that most of the key characters were morons.

 

[AreBee1969]

I too was a GoT fan who became disgruntled in the last two seasons of the series.

I also read Fire and Blood and didn't love it. I found it a really tough read. Rhaenys, Rhaena, Rhaenyra, Aegon, Vaegon, Aemon, Aenys, Aemond. My head was spinning.

So even into August, I wasn't very interested in this series.

That said, I've greatly enjoyed what I've seen so far. Feeling a little nostalgic seeing some of the GoT names and haunts. They did a great job with the tie-ins to GoT. Viserys' dagger, Aegon's dream. Good stuff!

Visually, the show is just jaw-dropping. The scenes with dragons have been amazing so far. The rolling ripple in the clouds before Syrax emerged was fantastic. That entire scene was wonderful. Loved it.

 

[Deepster]

I too was a GoT fan who became disgruntled in the last two seasons of the series.

I also read Fire and Blood and didn't love it. I found it a really tough read. Rhaenys, Rhaena, Rhaenyra, Aegon, Vaegon, Aemon, Aenys, Aemond. My head was spinning.

So even into August, I wasn't very interested in this series.

That said, I've greatly enjoyed what I've seen so far. Feeling a little nostalgic seeing some of the GoT names and haunts. They did a great job with the tie-ins to GoT. Viserys' dagger, Aegon's dream. Good stuff!

Visually, the show is just jaw-dropping. The scenes with dragons have been amazing so far. The rolling ripple in the clouds before Syrax emerged was fantastic. That entire scene was wonderful. Loved it.

Yeah, last night was aces. Was talking about it to someone today and asked, "Can they ever have a Red Wedding or Battle of the Bastards moment?" Were those moments SO good that it's going to be too high a mountain to ever scale? We'll see, I guess.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So I finally got to the big time shift in episode 5, with new actresses in the two key roles. Not sure I love that, but Matt Smith says there aren't any more of those. It's presenting a pretty good storyline so far, with some typical rivals for the throne lining up again.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This show is awesome, challenging GoT at its Season 2 through 4 peak. The fight between the kids was both disturbing and great television. The show makes the sudden violence disturbing, whereas it is glorified in GoT or even LotR.

I get that we are only two episodes in on the time jump, but the first Rhaenyra (Milly Alcock) was a lot more badass than Emma D'Arcy, who comes off as a bit of a wet blanket and dud. She is kind of a misery, and it is not clear why Daemon would get mixed up with her other than his normal self-destructive urges.

I didn't get Aemond's running through the dunes until the end of the episode, but in hindsight it was brilliant. This is the kind of great chess move that GoT would deliver in the first few seasons until it just became pitched battles with Ice Zombies.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Paddy Considine may have gotten himself an Emmy nomination because of the last episode. Playing a dying character is really hard and can spiral into vaudeville pretty easily. Playing a dying character in the dark (the weird lighting of HotD continues to be puzzling) is especially challenging, and Considine nailed it. That was a great episode.

This show is creating one awesome character after another. Vaemond Velaryon probably had less than 10 lines prior to the last episode, yet within a minute on the screen you could see the desperation of the second son who knows his one chance at an inheritance is slipping away with every dragging step of King Viserys approaching the Iron Throne. His losing control was a completely understandable reaction to what happened. He had nothing left to lose, and was lashing out. Daemon's response to Vaemond was perfectly logical and predictable, but still shocking.

Every character has depth.

 

[SubbaBub]

Right before Daemon told Vaemond to say "it", the wife and I were screaming "Don't say it. Don't say it." At the screen.

When Daemon said, "say it" we lost it, laughing, then the strike completely caught my wife off guard.

A very enjoyable scene.

 

[AreBee1969]

Paddy Considine may have gotten himself an Emmy nomination because of the last episode. Playing a dying character is really hard and can spiral into vaudeville pretty easily. Playing a dying character in the dark (the weird lighting of HotD continues to be puzzling) is especially challenging, and Considine nailed it. That was a great episode.

He was unbelievable. GRRM texted him to say "Your Viserys was better than mine." Hats off to the make-up department as well.

On a related note, I read that his crown falling off as he ascended the throne was an accident. That and Daemon putting it back on him was absolutely brilliant.

Right before Daemon told Vaemond to say "it", the wife and I were screaming "Don't say it. Don't say it." At the screen.

When Daemon said, "say it" we lost it, laughing, then the strike completely caught my wife off guard.

A very enjoyable scene.

His facial expressions were hysterical throughout.

Absolutely fantastic episode. The "kids" were great as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Which gets to the final scene, which I have some problems with. Rhaenys must have killed a couple of hundred people when the dragon bursts through the floor, but then she holds fire and doesn't kill Alicent and Aegon and all the rest of the Greens? Why not? Why does she suddenly get a conscience?

Rhaenys is supposed to be a lot smarter than Alicent and her drip of a niece Rhaenyra. She can smoke the Greens and end the coup right there, and she has to know that flying off will result in a very bloody war. So why does she show them mercy? And why wasn't Rhaenys under guard with 10 or 20 soldiers, instead of one Kingsguard with dodgy loyalty? She was by far the biggest threat to Otto and Alicent's plot. It was the soft spot in an otherwise great episode.

I'm not sure what you're watching. Alicent isn't all that sharp, she's been duped by her dad from the start, since he whored her to the king in mourning. She has been, mostly, quite a nice person and a pretty face. Somehow she was stupid enough to completely misunderstand the king on his deathbed, a mistake Rhaenyra didn't make. As if anyone of sound mind would want Aegon on the throne. I wouldn't hire him to work drive through at McDonalds. He knows he's unsuitable. Rhaenyra is a vastly better option and everyone knows it. Ironically, just the way Alicent admitted Rhaenys should have been queen, you'd think she'd recognize that Rhaenyra should too.

As for Rhaenys, she denied the Greens her dragon and her support. She doesn't need to kill them, and specifically said she wanted to be neutral. They are left vulnerable, publically so, and will need to decide whether to continue with their coup and leave that sniveling dolt on the throne, or bail and hope for mercy. It's not going to go well for them. Rhaenys has sent a message that she's not to be anybody's pawn in this game.

 

[Jay-Bone]

Ironically, just the way Alicent admitted Rhaenys should have been queen, you'd think she'd recognize that Rhaenyra should too.

I'm quite sure she realizes this. You're forgetting that Alicent sees Aegon's ascendance as a means of her family's survival. Otto planted the seed when she was young, no ascendance to the throne = no more Greens. She doesn't really care who would be the better leader. Also she sees Aegon as being her family's puppet. So Otto and her continue their rule.

Don't the Green's have 2 dragons? Aegon's and Aemond's? So doesn't that put the tally at 2 to 3? Rhaenys being the swing dragon. I can't quite keep track but I thought there were 5 left. If the numbers are that close, I think Rhaenys should have wiped them out. (Revisiting the significance behind Aemond stealing control of Vaghar) But at the same time, it was pretty badass to say, "I could've wiped you out, but I'm not going to because I just decimated you publicly." In terms of the people she killed, the plebes are insignificant to the nobility. However, as a group, they have political influence, so that might bite the Targaryans back in the long run. Not sure she really thought it through and just acted on emotion.

I'm excited for Daemon's rebuttal. I'm bummed that Rhaenyra grew up to be a drip as I thought she was a tough, feisty kid, like a more controlled Daemon.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm quite sure she realizes this. You're forgetting that Alicent sees Aegon's ascendance as a means of her family's survival. Otto planted the seed when she was young, no ascendance to the throne = no more Greens. She doesn't really care who would be the better leader. Also she sees Aegon as being her family's puppet. So Otto and her continue their rule.

Don't the Green's have 2 dragons? Aegon's and Aemond's? So doesn't that put the tally at 2 to 3? Rhaenys being the swing dragon. I can't quite keep track but I thought there were 5 left. If the numbers are that close, I think Rhaenys should have wiped them out. (Revisiting the significance behind Aemond stealing control of Vaghar) But at the same time, it was pretty badass to say, "I could've wiped you out, but I'm not going to because I just decimated you publicly." In terms of the people she killed, the plebes are insignificant to the nobility. However, as a group, they have political influence, so that might bite the Targaryans back in the long run. Not sure she really thought it through and just acted on emotion.

I'm excited for Daemon's rebuttal. I'm bummed that Rhaenyra grew up to be a drip as I thought she was a tough, feisty kid, like a more controlled Daemon.

I too think Daemon vs Aemond is the battle we've waited for. I don't think Rhaenyra is a drip, I think she actually heard the truth Viserys was trying to impact about the winter to come, and it weighs on her. She feels the weight of that responsibility and knows the kingdom must be united. It went completely over Alicent's head and her reaction to the news that we need to unite to prepare for a great war to come was to do the worst thing possible in that circumstance and put her imbecilic son on the throne. Yes, she's aware he's a complete tool. He's obviously the new Joffrey and will die just as quickly.

Dragons are more than 5, I believe. Some of the girls have dragons, and one of Rhaenyra's son's does. So between Rhaenyra, Daemon and their kids, I think they have 4. As for Aegon...can he ride his? We haven't seen it. I have serious doubts, which leaves the Greens at 1. 'House of the Dragon': A Guide to the Dragons in Westeros

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes, the foot scene was weird, but it barely cracks the Top 5 of shocking things that happen IN THAT EPISODE. GoT/HotD fans have to get some perspective.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The Dance of Dragons starts because a teenage boy, Aemond, was being a bullying idiot and things got out of hand. That is pretty good. I like the theme of the last two episodes where Alicent and Rhaenyra are trying to take power but still keep things under control.

The HotD plot is established on firmer ground than GoT's. Every step in HotD is logical, even when the characters are screwing up. GoT had some major plot problems early, including the biggest one, where the Greyjoy attack on the Starks was a huge plot turn and makes absolutely no sense nor is ever really explained.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Final episode was interesting. The ending was predictable, except for that Aemond actually tried to stop his dragon and couldn't. Both boys had that issue. I suspect that has bigger meaning for the future to come, where we start GOT and there aren't any dragons. Despite the efforts of the women in the show, the men have pushed them to the brink of war. That's honestly a little bit too convenient for me, a little too cliche. This is all bringing us to the mad king, and Robert ending the Targaryen reign. But that's quite some time away.

The whole story to come is laid out in a Wiki of Ice and Fire.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

Overall I thought the season was well done, albeit a little too dark, lighting wise, for my liking in some scenes.

The one area I wish they spent more time one was the other houses and areas of Westeros. It was nice in GoT that they traveled around and covered all the major houses, but in this series everything was focused on King's Landing primarily. Looks like they are setting up that change for future seasons.

 

[SubbaBub]

The Dance of Dragons starts because a teenage boy, Aemond, was being a bullying idiot and things got out of hand. That is pretty good. I like the theme of the last two episodes where Alicent and Rhaenyra are trying to take power but still keep things under control.

The HotD plot is established on firmer ground than GoT's. Every step in HotD is logical, even when the characters are screwing up. GoT had some major plot problems early, including the biggest one, where the Greyjoy attack on the Starks was a huge plot turn and makes absolutely no sense nor is ever really explained.

The purpose of the Greyjoy treason was to disperse the remaining Starks from Winterfell. Otherwise they could at any point, retreat back to a very strong defensive posture rally their remaining bannermen and attack again after the Red Wedding. It would have negated the rise of the Boltons in the North and after their defeat, left the Lannisters isolated vs the North, the Iron Islands, the Tyrells, and eventually Dorne. That's before the Deanerys and the Dothraki arrive in Westeros.

I've read that the entire POV of the book is that small incidents and misunderstandings can lead to great tragedies and conflicts. So far, other than the council plot to install Aegon II, everything else has fit this narrative. I hope they don't overdo it. Now that the war is imminent, we should see more deliberate animosity between the parties.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The purpose of the Greyjoy treason was to disperse the remaining Starks from Winterfell. Otherwise they could at any point, retreat back to a very strong defensive posture rally their remaining bannermen and attack again after the Red Wedding. It would have negated the rise of the Boltons in the North and after their defeat, left the Lannisters isolated vs the North, the Iron Islands, the Tyrells, and eventually Dorne. That's before the Deanerys and the Dothraki arrive in Westeros.

I've read that the entire POV of the book is that small incidents and misunderstandings can lead to great tragedies and conflicts. So far, other than the council plot to install Aegon II, everything else has fit this narrative. I hope they don't overdo it. Now that the war is imminent, we should see more deliberate animosity between the parties.

I understand why Martin wanted the Greyjoys to attack, but he never establishes their motivation. In fact, it makes no sense at all, and the attack predictably fails despite the Greyjoys having completely caught Robb Stark by surprise and left him helpless to do anything other than roving bands of northerners. And even if somehow the Greyjoys could hold onto some part of the North, would Tywin ever have let them remain independent? Of course not. It is actually a plot hole that he doesn't crush them once he has Robb Stark murdered. It was certainly never explained why Tywin allows them to continue to function independently at all. Even Robert Baratheon crushed them when they rose against him. It is like Martin knew he made a mess of that plotline, but he wanted to do other stuff with them so he lets them stay out there despite the fact that it undermines the rest of the story.

I don't know if you have read the books, but Martin makes a total mess of that plot line by the end of the fifth book.

It was guaranteed to fail for the Greyjoys, which undermines everything else that they do, yet somehow they emerge under Euron stronger than they were before losing most of their army in the North? I think it qualifies as a huge plot hole, and undermines everything that comes afterward in the books and the show.

I think the plot tangle that Martin had created for both Sansa and the Greyjoys is the reason that he will never finish the books. There is no way out from where he has the story.

 

[Deepster]

Overall I thought the season was well done, albeit a little too dark, lighting wise, for my liking in some scenes.

The one area I wish they spent more time one was the other houses and areas of Westeros. It was nice in GoT that they traveled around and covered all the major houses, but in this series everything was focused on King's Landing primarily. Looks like they are setting up that change for future seasons.

I think the dark lighting is to save on CGI and I'd guess with extended dragon scenes pretty much weekly, that's how they squeezed it into the budget.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think the dark lighting is to save on CGI and I'd guess with extended dragon scenes pretty much weekly, that's how they squeezed it into the budget.

But their cameras weren't up to the task. It's filled with artifacts and looks really cheap.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I understand why Martin wanted the Greyjoys to attack, but he never establishes their motivation. In fact, it makes no sense at all, and the attack predictably fails despite the Greyjoys having completely caught Robb Stark by surprise and left him helpless to do anything other than roving bands of northerners. And even if somehow the Greyjoys could hold onto some part of the North, would Tywin ever have let them remain independent? Of course not. It is actually a plot hole that he doesn't crush them once he has Robb Stark murdered. It was certainly never explained why Tywin allows them to continue to function independently at all. Even Robert Baratheon crushed them when they rose against him. It is like Martin knew he made a mess of that plotline, but he wanted to do other stuff with them so he lets them stay out there despite the fact that it undermines the rest of the story.

I don't know if you have read the books, but Martin makes a total mess of that plot line by the end of the fifth book.

It was guaranteed to fail for the Greyjoys, which undermines everything else that they do, yet somehow they emerge under Euron stronger than they were before losing most of their army in the North? I think it qualifies as a huge plot hole, and undermines everything that comes afterward in the books and the show.

I think the plot tangle that Martin had created for both Sansa and the Greyjoys is the reason that he will never finish the books. There is no way out from where he has the story.

I only got halfway through the first book. He created an interesting overall world and set of characters, but I thought he was not much as a writer. He meanders all over the place and it just isn't very tight or cohesive. I think the reason some of the events make little sense or aren't explained is the same reason he didn't finish it, he was just blundering through it.