Hoping Tennessee Wins

[Bayareahusky]

Didn't Holly win 30 games this year? Hasn't Tenn won at least a share of the SEC title the last few years? Pat's not coming back. And neither is the era in which she spent most of her time coaching and building her program. We will have the same issue when Geno leaves. There's a reason there will only ever be one Pat and one Geno. Following a coaching legend is difficult. The second coach that follows a legend has it much easier.

I am not here to bust on Tennessee. I have nothing against them, aside from the major problem everyone has with their attempt to take our program down a decade ago..... I really like the posters from there who contribute to the forum here...... but everyone, Holly has done a poor job. I hear many stick up for her..... but in 4 yrs as head coach or de facto head coach, she has zero wins over teams better than her's...... I guess victory over a weak Stanford team this year would be her best win..... and to hear Deb Antonelli yap on Saturday and again tonight about how it is tough to replicate what Pat did and it may not be possible to do so in today's game..... that is a slam on Holly (even though not meant that way) .... Geno has surpassed Pat's major accomplishments..... does Deb mean that Geno CAN do it, but Holly CANNOT? I do not know..... couldn't believe she said those words on Saturday, but heard the same thing tonight.....

The thing that worries me if I am a Lady Vols fan is..... and Holly is included in this..... The bar has been lowered so much..... still the talk is how tough the transition from Pat is..... and though 30 years at Pat's side and 4 in the driver's seat..... it is still tough for her to replace a legend..... not to use our program as an example, but Holly should expect more from her players..... playing every possession, fighting for the 50/50 balls etc..... she should get some coaching help offensively..... because by her own admission she does not focus on offense..... it is all about defense and rebounding..... Pat's mantra..... but Pat had the fire in the belly..... Holly seems to be rah rah.... the expectation level must be raised...... stop playing down to your competition...... you have athletes with big bonafides on the team... utilize them, and coach them!!!!

 

[Bayareahusky]

UTenn is beating UConn badly in one area tonight, as the VolNation game thread runs to 657 responses and 44 pages (and growing) to the 300 responses on the BY's UConn-Dayton thread. Granted the messages seem to rehash the same issues over and over (Can Holly coach? Can anyone shoot? Have you ever seen worse refs?) and some appear to be more concerned about unkind discussions of another poster's mental condition, but that's still an impressive final blast for the Vol fans in a losing cause tonight. Even if it's been 7 years without an FF during a time of big recruiting success, clearly hope springs eternal for Vol fans and they are hanging on giving their support to their "Ladies."

Yes you know what is funny..... many Tenn posts tonight say Maryland shot the lights out while Tennessee was having trouble with their shooting.... I just went to the box score..... MD shot 39 percent and Lady Vols shot 32. Actual baskets Tennessee actually had 1 more made field goal.......

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I've got 3 nosebleed(303) tickets for the championship game to sell for face value. I was able to get lower bowl tix last week for the Game. PM me if you are interested....they may be the only ones left

Thanks, but there are tons of tickets. I already have a ticket and am sitting in the lower level and I know tons of Gamecock fans who have already gotten tickets.

 

[bleeckerhusky]

Agreed!

Yes indeed. A corollary of the "anyone but Tennessee" theorem is that the sooner they lose the better. There's no use taking any chances, and besides it's more painful that way.

 

[VFLfan]

Yes you know what is funny..... many Tenn posts tonight say Maryland shot the lights out while Tennessee was having trouble with their shooting.... I just went to the box score..... MD shot 39 percent and Lady Vols shot 32. Actual baskets Tennessee actually had 1 more made field goal..

Not sure the posts you are talking about but the majority of the ones I read (and was a part of) talked about how bad BOTH teams were offensively...that all one team needed to do was heat up for a couple of minutes to take control, etc etc. I didn't see where anyone said MD was shooting lights out as you say. I was surprised we held their guards in check for as long as we did to be honest. We just had absolutely no posts, especially who could guard Jones 1-on-1...Graves, being the small 4 she is and Burdick being the 3 she is really tried, but they couldn't get it done so we had to start helping and that left some of their guards open and they finally were able to hit a few. I dunno what else we could have done on the defensive side...now offensively...that's a whole different story :-/

 

[Sonny44]

Eh, it's hard for me to project my hostility onto the current team. Everyone is so far removed from the events of 2006, Holly and these players had no influence on the bitterness of the history.

Agree Sally. I thought by now people would undertsand that hate, revenge, etc. hurts the giver much more than the reciever. But some stubborn souls have never heard of burying the hatchet. I feel sorry for these. I look forward to the day we can rise above this. C'mon folks, you can do it.

 

[Waquoit]

I look forward to the day we can rise above this. C'mon folks, you can do it.

Rise above this? Tennessee doesn't deserve the good will. I find your sanctimony offensive.

 

[Beemer]

You know, I keep reading how HUGE the ratings will be for UConn Tenn if that matchup comes about I really wonder.... the nostalgia folks, of which I am one, will certainly watch, but wasn't Tenn UC so long ago, and wasn't the allure primarily Geno vs Pat? If it happens it will be interesting how many folks watch. You know ESPN will hype it incredibly, but how many viewers will that filter down into?

I agree. One of the most interesting parts of that rivalry was Pat vs. Geno. Geno vs. Holly? Not so much.

I'd watch it but it wouldn't be the same.

 

[Beemer]

I'm a huge hockey fan. My team the Boston Bruins has a bitter rivalry with the Montreal Canadiens. It's been going on for 90 years now. As a Bruins fan I hate the Canadiens with the intensity of a thousand exploding suns. Bruins fans have a saying- we cheer for the Bruins and anyone playing Montreal.

I feel the same way about Tennessee although the intensity isn't there anymore. Ever since Pat went down with dementia I just can't hate them like I used to. I can't explain it.

But I'll never cheer for them against anyone else. There are some lines I just cant cross.

 

[meyers7]

How can you not relish the thought of playing Tennessee? Rooting for the Lady Vols to make the Final 4

Very simple. They're Tennessee. I want them to lose every single game they ever play. Badly.

I really question those people's Husky fandom, who wish for a TN win. That's just not right. And to wish for a TN to get them to the FF? Disgusting! Revolting!

IF you are a true UCONN WBB fan, you should never (EVER) root for TN to win ANY game. Certainly not a game that would get them a FF appearance. You should be ashamed.

 

[ochoopsfan]

I'm a huge hockey fan. My team the Boston Bruins has a bitter rivalry with the Montreal Canadiens. It's been going on for 90 years now. As a Bruins fan I hate the Canadiens with the intensity of a thousand exploding suns. Bruins fans have a saying- we cheer for the Bruins and anyone playing Montreal.

I feel the same way about Tennessee although the intensity isn't there anymore. Ever since Pat went down with dementia I just can't hate them like I used to. I can't explain it.

But I'll never cheer for them against anyone else. There are some lines I just cant cross.

So Beemer, if I invite you to dinner with Guy LeFleur would you show up?

 

[Beemer]

So Beemer, if I invite you to dinner with Guy LeFleur would you show up?

Yes if only to tell him to FOAD . He caused my Bruins much pain back in the day.

I will tell you this- the only Montreal players I've ever respected are the late Jean Belliveau and Saku Koivu. Talk about two pearls cast before swine....

 

[Bayareahusky]

Not sure the posts you are talking about but the majority of the ones I read (and was a part of) talked about how bad BOTH teams were offensively...that all one team needed to do was heat up for a couple of minutes to take control, etc etc. I didn't see where anyone said MD was shooting lights out as you say. I was surprised we held their guards in check for as long as we did to be honest. We just had absolutely no posts, especially who could guard Jones 1-on-1...Graves, being the small 4 she is and Burdick being the 3 she is really tried, but they couldn't get it done so we had to start helping and that left some of their guards open and they finally were able to hit a few. I dunno what else we could have done on the defensive side...now offensively...that's a whole different story :-/

Hi VFLfan..... That was from quick scan of Volnation..... and "shoot the lights out" was a phrase I used in hyperbolic fashion, which I normally do not do..... but read several posts as to how MD's shots were falling, and Tennessee could hit few shots.... and I thought upon glance of box score that 32% and 39% were pretty comparable..... also..... I get tired of hearing about the injuries..... yes yes, UT has had unfortunate luck with injuries, but I have ALWAYS thought that with their existing roster, they STILL should win vs. their competition..... Boise ST, Pitt and Gonzaga shouldn't have been so close..... I read another poster saying how many McDonalds All Americans are on the TN roster..... and I checked.....on active roster, McD AA's include Burdick, Graves, Massengale, Middleton, Nared, and Reynolds.... for MD, Mincy, Brown, and Howard..... that is 6 to 3..... and while we all know that high school prowess does not always translate to college..... with a strong roster like Tennessee has, .......even with injuries....... to plead poor mouth to me seems pretty lame.....

Having said this, I know full well that Tenn fan base is just that,..... fanatic, they are spirited..... and you can read about the injuries, the shooting, the refs.... etc.... I am sure we are guilty of some of the same..... bottom line is I have little faith - as a WCBB fan - in Holly's ability to lead, motivate, and coach the troops to any great effectiveness..... and think you guys need a change..... I read one of Cierra Burdick's comments at the presser last night after the game..... the question was on some function of the game..... her response was to the effect that she was just going to have to accept that it was what it was, and she would have to take it and "learn from it". She is a senior! There is no more learning!...... I hope a better fate for the roster, that the experience Cierra has had there will be more fruitful in terms of results for the underlings coming up in the program.......

From all accounts Craig is a good coach..... I know Ezry was brought in from KY to elevate recruiting among other things..... It is long overdue (in my opinion) that Holly take the reins of this team..... get coaching help if necessary on the offensive side of the ball, and take stock in the rich resources she has right in front of her eyes

 

[EricSD]

Rise above this? Tennessee doesn't deserve the good will. I find your sanctimony offensive.

Couldn't agree more. While I feel badly for the players crying at the presser, as a program, and most of the fan base, Tennessee is the most distasteful team in WCBB. I realize that was not a perfectly phrased sentence, but you get the gist.

Maybe some fans can forgive and forget, or have already forgotten, but what Pat and the Tenn. administration tried to do to Geno and UCONN bears neither goodwill nor forgiveness. You forgive someone when they are sorry. And apologize. And mean it. Tennessee fans still refer to UCONN as "UCheat". They have horrible things to say about Geno (they refer to him as "Weno" and post pictures of him patting Mulkey's ass and call him a molester or worse). They show Geno zero respect and knock his accomplishments as tainted. And neither Pat, nor Holly, nor anyone at Tennessee apologized to Geno or UCONN for the lies they spread and what they tried to do to us.

So yeah. Every time Tennessee loses, it feels like Christmas. Even though the teams have not played for years, I don't know of another fan base that has so much dislike for the other than UCONN and Tennessee.

 

[Beemer]

I think part of being a great coach is knowing what your shortcomings are and hiring people who can make up for them. IMO Holly Warlick should not be afraid to bring in help for those areas she struggles to coach. It would make her team better and her job easier.

 

[UcMiami]

I liked Geno's response in the post game presser (last question asked) about if he wanted TN or MD to win. He started by saying the nice thing this time of year is you have no choice about who you play except by losing. And then he said, what he feared was that playing TN at the FF would turn into a circus that disrespected the players on both teams, and the other two teams and coaches at the FF. Anybody who thinks that 95% of the coverage this next week would not have been about Geno and Pat is living in a fantasy world, and that is NOT good for the game. He concluded by saying that what was good for the game was Dayton and what they accomplished in the tournament and the game they played that night.

I agree 100% with Geno!

As I side note - last years FF was all ND/Uconn, Muffet/Geno all the time - I even had to go to the google to look up who Uconn played in the semis, having forgotten that Stanford got there.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Very simple. They're Tennessee. I want them to lose every single game they ever play. Badly.

I really question those people's Husky fandom, who wish for a TN win. That's just not right. And to wish for a TN to get them to the FF? Disgusting! Revolting!

IF you are a true UCONN WBB fan, you should never (EVER) root for TN to win ANY game. Certainly not a game that would get them a FF appearance. You should be ashamed.

Oh, c'mon, if it's UTenn against Alien-soul-suckers-from-planet-BeatPuppies-who-don't-wipe-their-feet-before-entering-your-home, I'm sure you'd at least think about who to root for. Maybe, possibly?

 

[meyers7]

Oh, c'mon, if it's UTenn against Alien-soul-suckers-from-planet-BeatPuppies-who-don't-wipe-their-feet-before-entering-your-home, I'm sure you'd at least think about who to root for. Maybe, possibly?

Not even for a second.

You think TN aren't Alien-soul-suckers-from-planet-BeatPuppies-who-don't-wipe-their-feet-before-entering-your-home?

 

[Huskies Rule]

I will NEVER EVER root for Tennessee - Under any circumstances !

Understood. But while rooting for Tennessee goes against every strand of my DNA and would have likely triggered a fatal autoimmune response, I really really DESPISE Brenda "If they lose a couple more (All-Americas) Geno might have to start coaching like the rest of us" Frese. Relentlessly snarky whiner.

 

[VFLfan]

Hi VFLfan..... That was from quick scan of Volnation..... and "shoot the lights out" was a phrase I used in hyperbolic fashion, which I normally do not do..... but read several posts as to how MD's shots were falling, and Tennessee could hit few shots.... and I thought upon glance of box score that 32% and 39% were pretty comparable..... also..... I get tired of hearing about the injuries..... yes yes, UT has had unfortunate luck with injuries, but I have ALWAYS thought that with their existing roster, they STILL should win vs. their competition..... Boise ST, Pitt and Gonzaga shouldn't have been so close..... I read another poster saying how many McDonalds All Americans are on the TN roster..... and I checked.....on active roster, McD AA's include Burdick, Graves, Massengale, Middleton, Nared, and Reynolds.... for MD, Mincy, Brown, and Howard..... that is 6 to 3..... and while we all know that high school prowess does not always translate to college..... with a strong roster like Tennessee has, ..even with injuries.. to plead poor mouth to me seems pretty lame.....

Having said this, I know full well that Tenn fan base is just that,..... fanatic, they are spirited..... and you can read about the injuries, the shooting, the refs.... etc.... I am sure we are guilty of some of the same..... bottom line is I have little faith - as a WCBB fan - in Holly's ability to lead, motivate, and coach the troops to any great effectiveness..... and think you guys need a change..... I read one of Cierra Burdick's comments at the presser last night after the game..... the question was on some function of the game..... her response was to the effect that she was just going to have to accept that it was what it was, and she would have to take it and "learn from it". She is a senior! There is no more learning!. I hope a better fate for the roster, that the experience Cierra has had there will be more fruitful in terms of results for the underlings coming up in the program..

From all accounts Craig is a good coach..... I know Ezry was brought in from KY to elevate recruiting among other things..... It is long overdue (in my opinion) that Holly take the reins of this team..... get coaching help if necessary on the offensive side of the ball, and take stock in the rich resources she has right in front of her eyes

Thanks for your thoughts...and I completely understand the being tired of the injuries lament. But come on...both of our posts were sitting on the bench by seasons end. How are you suppose to make up for that? So while I wasn't using injuries as an excuse per se, it doesn't change the fact that what I said about having no one who could guard Jones one on one and having to eventually send over a second to help out leaving one of the MD guards wide open as being a key reason why we couldn't get it done. Burdick, as hard as she played this season, is NOT a post player and Graves just can't jump to save her life. So, yes, while we have plenty of McD AAs (which I agree with you...HS ratings don't mean a thing), our roster this year ended up being a jumble of players that played out of position and couldn't overcome their limitations to bring the program a FF this year. Maybe next year everyone can go back to playing where they are comfortable. I know Holly has some growing to do...but she ain't going anywhere anytime soon so we have to hope she continues to improve each year. If you look at some of our games this year, you can see some growth (at ND is one of them where we actually played pretty well). We can all talk about this or that coach would be better than Holly...but again...she isn't going anywhere any time soon. All we as a "fanatic" fan base can do is be honest and hope we can improve.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Not even for a second.

You think TN aren't Alien-soul-suckers-from-planet-BeatPuppies-who-don't-wipe-their-feet-before-entering-your-home?

I do remind myself that Greg and Duane Allman, Aretha Franklin, Bessie Smith, Reese Witherspoon, Oscar Robinson, Tina Turner and many other admirable people are from TN, but yeah, so is Johnny Knoxville of course. Did not know that Bill Belichik is also from there. I've also had a few UTenn grads on my fantasy football teams, so that must count for something. But it would probably take some potentially favorable factor for UConn (like a bad match up ahead in the Tourney) for me to find a reason to be gruntled about a UTenn Tourney win.

 

[CCinCT]

Understood. But while rooting for Tennessee goes against every strand of my DNA and would have likely triggered a fatal autoimmune response, I really really DESPISE Brenda "If they lose a couple more (All-Americas) Geno might have to start coaching like the rest of us" Frese. Relentlessly snarky whiner.

No dispute on your assessment of Frese. However the general demeanor of a significant number of UT fans, excluding the rational (mostly) posters on this board precludes any respect from me. There's more than one UT board and they're both tainted.

 

[johnnyc]

But some stubborn souls have never heard of burying the hatchet.

Yes it is unfortunate that Tenn can't find it's way to apologize.

 

[meyers7]

I do remind myself that Greg and Duane Allman, Aretha Franklin, Bessie Smith, Reese Witherspoon, Oscar Robinson, Tina Turner and many other admirable people are from TN, but yeah, so is Johnny Knoxville of course. Did not know that Bill Belichik is also from there. I've also had a few UTenn grads on my fantasy football teams, so that must count for something. But it would probably take some potentially favorable factor for UConn (like a bad match up ahead in the Tourney) for me to find a reason to be gruntled about a UTenn Tourney win.

Being from Tennessee and attending University of Tennessee are two very different things.

 

[j66kicker]

Agree Sally. I thought by now people would undertsand that hate, revenge, etc. hurts the giver much more than the reciever. But some stubborn souls have never heard of burying the hatchet. I feel sorry for these. I look forward to the day we can rise above this. C'mon folks, you can do it.

This is just a sports rivalry, not a religious war. We don't even dislike (most of) them as individuals, just conceptually as a sports rival. In that context, they can burn in hell until they apologize, then let the -kickings resume.

 

[Brochacho]

Last night was a win win. Tennessee wins, UConn gets to obliterate them. Tennessee loses and they don't make the Final Four, and they've missed the last 7. Oh by the way, UConn has made the last 8.

 

[BRS24]

Even sportswriters are saying the same old things -

Lady Vols fall just short of reaching Final Four once again

"Tennessee's Final Four drought continues for one more year. Fortunately for the Lady Vols, reinforcements are on the way."

 

[Woof 101]

Thanks, but there are tons of tickets. I already have a ticket and am sitting in the lower level and I know tons of Gamecock fans who have already gotten tickets.

Funky Chicken! He specifically said championship game I don't think you'all will be needing that one. Enjoy your time at The Final Four.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Funky Chicken! He specifically said championship game I don't think you'all will be needing that one. Enjoy your time at The Final Four.

Thanks, see you on Tuesday; birds vs. pups.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Thanks for your thoughts...and I completely understand the being tired of the injuries lament. But come on...both of our posts were sitting on the bench by seasons end. How are you suppose to make up for that? So while I wasn't using injuries as an excuse per se, it doesn't change the fact that what I said about having no one who could guard Jones one on one and having to eventually send over a second to help out leaving one of the MD guards wide open as being a key reason why we couldn't get it done. Burdick, as hard as she played this season, is NOT a post player and Graves just can't jump to save her life. So, yes, while we have plenty of McD AAs (which I agree with you...HS ratings don't mean a thing), our roster this year ended up being a jumble of players that played out of position and couldn't overcome their limitations to bring the program a FF this year. Maybe next year everyone can go back to playing where they are comfortable. I know Holly has some growing to do...but she ain't going anywhere anytime soon so we have to hope she continues to improve each year. If you look at some of our games this year, you can see some growth (at ND is one of them where we actually played pretty well). We can all talk about this or that coach would be better than Holly...but again...she isn't going anywhere any time soon. All we as a "fanatic" fan base can do is be honest and hope we can improve.

You know, you make it difficult for me because I really cannot disagree with any of your points... Hah!!! Despite fact I have always spoken for the obvious talent on the roster, there is no question - to support your point - that injuries have hurt you badly on a positional level..... to have posts out, especially vs. Gonzaga and MD with existing trees in the paint, is a lot to overcome.... and your point about Burdick and Graves to improvise and play other positions is certainly well received..... we have that to a lesser degree with Tuck and Stewart .... who has the height but is not a natural post.....

On Holly, I have been a longtime skeptic.... and I do not have a dog in the fight...... but I just get honestly frustrated for my Tenn friends ( yes, and i do have these!!) when I see her operational strategy..... I honestly feel guilty a bit busting on her.... but sometimes... my opinions get the best of me...... i saw yesterday either on the Summit or Volnation someone suggest "well name someone who can do job better than Holly"..... to which I thought many can..... but she is getting a bit better if one looks at the record..... and next year will be a litmus test I think with how she handles DD (or as conjecture goes, how DD will handle Holly!) My wish for her is that .... at a minimum..... she gets some coaching help offensively...... and let her focus on where she is comfortable.... the defensive side of the ball....

A couple of misc comments ..... I really feel for the seniors.... Burdick Massengale and Harrison..... they committed before Pat's illness announcement.... they all stood tall and honored commitments..... and their fortunes could have been better..... they all seem like fine young ladies and I am sure their experiences have been good in KVille...... and next year...... I have been on the record as a UConn fan..... 2 people I am rooting for in orange are Jannah Tucker..... bless her heart she has been through so much..... and Mercedes..... surgery like that is hard to come back from all the way..... and I hope she is able to run the floor and have full mobility in everything..... I hope she has a good career for the Lady Vols...... Also as I have said before..... I appreciate the Tennessee posters here and the flavor they bring the forum here..... you and your army of orange invaders ..... it is always a breath of fresh air to exchange honest opinions about a game so great......