Hockey East

[upstater]

Billybud, I seriously think you're overloading on your Southern cultural issues (and perceived inferiority in relation to the northeast) into these discussions. People have mentioned lots of fan interest in the midwest, southwest, Texas, Tennessee and south atlantic as places where fans come out for women's bball, and you're still going at it. one of your favorite things to do is talk about the south versus the north on this board. It's like we're talking about the civil war all over again. Not to mention the whole crazy Penn State is not northeast argument from a few weeks ago. I really think you have a north-south thing going on.

 

[billybud]

Huh? I have never even mentioned Penn State....

I do have a cultural difference thing going..and it has nothing to do with the civil war...and only incidentally has to do with north-south.

Much has to do with large urban populations versus less urban....and of course sports fandom for certain sports based on geography.

Wrestling? Big in the midwest....FSU has no wrestling...not a big ACC sport (Pitt has a wrestling team and NC State). Wrestling is also not an SEC sport.

Baseball....big in the ACC, Texas, SEC, far west......not so big in the midwest.

Why? We could argue that all day long. But it is what it is....we have differences based on geography/culture...what ever you want to call it.

 

[Afroabe224]

You're stretching it. And you're giving Michigan a ton of credit over a lot of pretty good HE programs. Ohio State? Really? You're going to credit them for being better than HE programs other than BU/BC? There are multiple HE teams that have made the national championship game in the last 10, 15, 20 years other than BU and BC. Ohio State hasn't done a thing. HE is actually very deep. UConn is going to have to bring it each and every game.

Check out the attendance ranks from the last 2 seasons. It at least goes to show the following each school has:

B1G:
Minnesota (2)/(3)
Wisconsin (3)/(1)
Michigan State (8)/(11)
Michigan (10)/(10)

HE:
BC (6)/(5)
UNH (9)/(13)
BU (14)/(15)

Ohio State (19)/(14) was right between Maine and Vermont.

NC/Frozen Four success is an important part obviously but as far as fan interest/support, the B1G is right there with HE in terms of nationally relevant programs.

The bottom line is if we get an invite to the B1G, visits from Michigan and Minnesota will soften the blow of not getting to play Merrimack and UMass in hockey... Although I will miss those football games against Temple and SMU when we're forced to play Ohio State and Penn St at the Rent.

 

[billybud]

You know...I can see why we would look at Women's Basketball differently...

UConn's Women's basketball is televised on ESPN (2 and U)....FSU's is really not nationally televised...one game is on ESPNU and the others shown on a RSS or vis internet.

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/fsu-w-baskbl-sched.html

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Check out the attendance ranks from the last 2 seasons. It at least goes to show the following each school has:

B1G:
Minnesota (2)/(3)
Wisconsin (3)/(1)
Michigan State (8)/(11)
Michigan (10)/(10)

HE:
BC (6)/(5)
UNH (9)/(13)
BU (14)/(15)

Ohio State (19)/(14) was right between Maine and Vermont.

NC/Frozen Four success is an important part obviously but as far as fan interest/support, the B1G is right there with HE in terms of nationally relevant programs.

The bottom line is if we get an invite to the B1G, visits from Michigan and Minnesota will soften the blow of not getting to play Merrimack and UMass in hockey... Although I will miss those football games against Temple and SMU when we're forced to play Ohio State and Penn St at the Rent.

Attendance numbers in college hockey can't be viewed in a vacuum. Western teams are spread apart from each other, so options for fans to see a game in person aren't jumbled together. In the east, specifically in HE, 60% of the league is within a 50 mile radius of Boston, plus there's Harvard on top of that. The nearest program to Minnesota is 60 miles away, not to mention Wisconsin, North Dakota, etc. I could reasonably jog to four college hockey arenas from my apartment in Boston.

 

[upstater]

Check out the attendance ranks from the last 2 seasons. It at least goes to show the following each school has:

B1G:
Minnesota (2)/(3)
Wisconsin (3)/(1)
Michigan State (8)/(11)
Michigan (10)/(10)

HE:
BC (6)/(5)
UNH (9)/(13)
BU (14)/(15)

Ohio State (19)/(14) was right between Maine and Vermont.

NC/Frozen Four success is an important part obviously but as far as fan interest/support, the B1G is right there with HE in terms of nationally relevant programs.

The bottom line is if we get an invite to the B1G, visits from Michigan and Minnesota will soften the blow of not getting to play Merrimack and UMass in hockey... Although I will miss those football games against Temple and SMU when we're forced to play Ohio State and Penn St at the Rent.

I thought we were talking about play on the ice, not attendance.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If UConn is invited to the Big Ten, they'll be joining the Big Ten hockey conference. No ifs, ands or buts about that one. If the Big Ten sponsors a sport, then you play as a Big Ten member in that sport.

If UConn is invited to the ACC, Big 12 or some other conference that doesn't sponsor hockey, then they can stay in the Hockey East.

Granted, I find it funny to hear any perceived complaints about Big Ten hockey vs. the Hockey East in the same way that some (not all) Maryland fans that couldn't see the forest for the trees in conference realignment last year regarding ACC basketball vs. Big Ten basketball. Even if basketball and hockey actually mattered much in conference realignment (and much to my chagrin as a hoops fan at heart, they don't), it's not exactly as if though Big Ten basketball (3 of the top 5 teams in the rankings as of this week) or hockey (2 of the top 3 teams in the rankings this week) aren't more than good enough competitively (and certainly not enough compared to financial football security that drives conference realignment decisions). We're not talking about getting sent to the Summit League in terms of quality here for other sports.

There is no doubt. The reality is, the B1G Hockey league would be a huge step up from any conference we've actually played hockey in so far. At worst it is a slight downgrade from Hockey East, which is immaterial. It's only going to get better anyway. Everybody here would be jump for joy to see that B1G invitation in their stocking on Christmas morning (or delivered via whatever holiday gift process you engage in). The money alone would allow UConn to invest more in Hockey and baseball (so that FSU fans who come to this form for reasons unknown can stop nagging about it).

 

[HuskyHawk]

You know...I can see why we would look at Women's Basketball differently...

UConn's Women's basketball is televised on ESPN (2 and U)....FSU's is really not nationally televised...one game is on ESPNU and the others shown on a RSS or vis internet.

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/fsu-w-baskbl-sched.html

Good grief people. Women's college basketball is moderately popular where the teams are good. That's about it. UConn and Tennessee are outliers. It still draws better than women's soccer across the board (assuming Hope Solo isn't involved while wearing a bikini) and must be the top attendance college sport for women by a fair margin.

Billy, if FSU baseball had made the CWS only once, and was only a half scolarship sport, and you had to play a shortened season in our weather, how would it do against an FSU women's hoop team that had won 8 NCAA Division I national championships, advanced to 14 Final Fours, and won over 30 regular season and tournament championships, all in the last 25 years. That's our reality. Baseball is popular here. The Red Sox and Yankees outdraw the Rays for the season sometime in May or June. It is however not a sport that is easily played during the college year.

 

[upstater]

Good grief people. Women's college basketball is moderately popular where the teams are good. That's about it. UConn and Tennessee are outliers. It still draws better than women's soccer across the board (assuming Hope Solo isn't involved while wearing a bikini) and must be the top attendance college sport for women by a fair margin.

Billy, if FSU baseball had made the CWS only once, and was only a half scolarship sport, and you had to play a shortened season in our weather, how would it do against an FSU women's hoop team that had won 8 NCAA Division I national championships, advanced to 14 Final Fours, and won over 30 regular season and tournament championships, all in the last 25 years. That's our reality. Baseball is popular here. The Red Sox and Yankees outdraw the Rays for the season sometime in May or June. It is however not a sport that is easily played during the college year.

We're talking about national ratings here.

He's saying it's a regional sport.

You think that's true?

 

[pj]

Kentucky is not southern.....

Then why was Louisville invited to the ACC because FSU demanded a southern school?

 

[billybud]

Louisville is not northeastern...like BC and Cuse.

And, well hell, there were several factors...just read the thread.

 

[pj]

Louisville is not northeastern...like BC and Cuse.

And, well hell, there were several factors...just read the thread.

I can certainly understand not wanting to replicate BC or Cuse. But UConn is not BC or Cuse -- it is more valuable than either.

 

[kingdobbs]

If UConn is invited to the Big Ten, they'll be joining the Big Ten hockey conference. No ifs, ands or buts about that one. If the Big Ten sponsors a sport, then you play as a Big Ten member in that sport.

If UConn is invited to the ACC, Big 12 or some other conference that doesn't sponsor hockey, then they can stay in the Hockey East.

Granted, I find it funny to hear any perceived complaints about Big Ten hockey vs. the Hockey East in the same way that some (not all) Maryland fans that couldn't see the forest for the trees in conference realignment last year regarding ACC basketball vs. Big Ten basketball. Even if basketball and hockey actually mattered much in conference realignment (and much to my chagrin as a hoops fan at heart, they don't), it's not exactly as if though Big Ten basketball (3 of the top 5 teams in the rankings as of this week) or hockey (2 of the top 3 teams in the rankings this week) aren't more than good enough competitively (and certainly not enough compared to financial football security that drives conference realignment decisions). We're not talking about getting sent to the Summit League in terms of quality here for other sports.

The B1G hockey league is going to be a top-level league, no doubt, and someone from it will likely contend for the national championship from it. It's also a small league that is loaded with tough teams, such that it's also possible the six teams can beat the living crap out of each other on the way, and end up all of them hovering just around .500, and none of them in the top 5 or possibly even the top 10.

Hockey East is a league that will be equally competitive on a national level, and equally tough to be successful in starting from basically zero like UConn is. But the benefits are going to be greater for UConn because 8 of the other 11 teams will be within a two-three hour bus ride of Storrs. Hockey East has always been the "natural" place for an upgraded Division I team for UConn. We have history with all of those teams there, even if that history is mostly in the past in most sports.

The only benefit to UConn for being in the B1G over Hockey East in hockey would be that UConn would be in the B1G in football.

 

[Ha Who]

The B1G hockey league is going to be a top-level league, no doubt, and someone from it will likely contend for the national championship from it. It's also a small league that is loaded with tough teams, such that it's also possible the six teams can beat the living crap out of each other on the way, and end up all of them hovering just around .500, and none of them in the top 5 or possibly even the top 10.

Hockey East is a league that will be equally competitive on a national level, and equally tough to be successful in starting from basically zero like UConn is. But the benefits are going to be greater for UConn because 8 of the other 11 teams will be within a two-three hour bus ride of Storrs. Hockey East has always been the "natural" place for an upgraded Division I team for UConn. We have history with all of those teams there, even if that history is mostly in the past in most sports.

The only benefit to UConn for being in the B1G over Hockey East in hockey would be that UConn would be in the B1G in football.

Uh you forgot about the guys who wear shorts during the winter. What is the name of that sport?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

As a soccer guy... I was disheartened to see an elite FSU women's team play in front of 250-300 fans in the play off games conducted in Tallahassee.

One reason why schools like FSU and other do not draw decent crowds is that those universities bought a good women’s soccer team, not developed one. Due to Title IX concerns and increased spending in athletics, especially football, entire conference have bought into women’s soccer, such as the XII and SEC who did not sponsor women’s soccer 20 years ago and do no sponsor men’s soccer today. Looking at the seeded teams from the 2013 tournament, I never heard of teams from Michigan (was a club team in the 1990’s), South Carolina (they do have a good men’s team at least), Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, Central Florida, Florida (got good in the late 1990’s), Nebraska, Florida St, etc. Heck, even Arkansas and Ole Miss even have ranked teams now.

 

[billybud]

It was only 30 years ago that we put up the first soccer field in Tallahassee.

Soccer just is not a great spectator sport....Heck, Virginia, a perennial power, only had a 130 or so folks at their field. Notre Dame...maybe 250 or so.

Even women's basketball is not a huge draw in many schools....certainly not in the ACC, with an average of 2,600 attending.

DIVISION I

Rk. Conference Teams Games Attendance Average

1. Big 12 10 172 846,502 4,922

2. Big Ten 12 202 788,593 3,904

3. Southeastern 14 243 855,461 3,520

4. Big East 15 237 745,538 3,146

5. Atlantic Coast 12 203 527,226 2,597

6. Mountain West 9 140 290,714 2,077


Rk. School G Attendance Average

1. Tennessee 18 205,027 11,390

2. Iowa St. 15 149,557 9,970

3. Louisville 18 168,442 9,358

4. Baylor 17 155,713 9,160

5. Notre Dame 14 125,699 8,979

6. Connecticut 20 179,542 8,977

 

[billybud]

FSU has had a histoey, before soccer, of a very good women's rugby club...

Won the National Championship in 1979, 80, 84, and 85...From 1979 to 1994, FSU never finished below fourth place in the US Women's Rugby National Club Competition.

That interest for women has migrated to soccer.

 

[Nostical]

The only benefit to UConn for being in the B1G over Hockey East in hockey would be that UConn would be in the B1G in football.

Only benefit? Nothing else really matters, does it?

 

[Husky25]

Soccer just is not a great spectator sport....

It doesn't matter much in terms of major college conference realignment, but approximately 6.8 billion people would respectfully disagree with you.

 

[kingdobbs]

Only benefit? Nothing else really matters, does it?

I didn't say it wasn't a huge benefit, to be fair, because it would be for UConn. In practically every other consideration than hockey, the B1G would be a better deal for UConn.

But, if it were possible to take hockey in isolation and have a choice between the two leagues on their respective merits, no other external factors impacting the decision, I take Hockey East ten times out of ten.

 

[billybud]

It doesn't matter much in terms of major college conference realignment, but approximately 6.8 billion people would respectfully disagree with you.

Yeah...and cricket is big as well.....fron India to Malasia to South Africa...but not in the USA.

Now tell me how many folks in the USA line the fields at soccer matches....

 

[Husky25]

Yeah...and cricket is big as well.....fron India to Malasia to South Africa...but not in the USA.

Now tell me how many folks in the USA line the fields at soccer matches....

As of the conclusion of the 2012 season, approximately 18,800, on average, per game at the highest North American level. It follows only American football and baseball in terms of average attendance and the MLS is in the middle of the pack in terms of major regional soccer leagues worldwide.

 

[upstater]

Yeah...and cricket is big as well.....fron India to Malasia to South Africa...but not in the USA.

Now tell me how many folks in the USA line the fields at soccer matches....

Are we talking MLS? Because their attendance is on par with much of Europe. NBC's ratings for the Premier League are also pretty high compared to the most popular college sports, a million viewers per game, which is what you expect for an average P5 football game.

 

[Husky25]

Are we talking MLS? Because their attendance is on par with much of Europe. NBC's ratings for the Premier League are also pretty high compared to the most popular college sports, a million viewers per game, which is what you expect for an average P5 football game.

Billybud was trying to make a point that Soccer is not popular in the US, even though it is the most popular spectator sport in the world (2nd if you consider NASCAR). I guess Charlottesville, Tallahassee, and South Bend are the limit of the sample size.