Heat Pumps

[oshkosh]

A few years ago I bought my first house (built in the 90s) with all original mechanicals still chugging along. We have oil that fuels both the furnace (forced hot air) and hot water heater using oil burners, in addition to central A/C so the whole house is already ducted. I would like to upgrade all of this, preferably moving entirely away from oil. We are on borrowed time especially with the ol’ Superstor water heater ready to burst at the seams.

I see there are loads of incentives (energizeCT rebates + loans, federal tax credits) for heat pump units and hot water heaters, I just don’t know how well these perform in our climate and whether these are suitable replacements here.

I spoke to a couple HVAC tech’s who both mentioned that heat pumps need a backup heat source for cold days (<30 degrees F), yet I have seen units in my limited research that are rated for performance down to -15F.

I can recite the career stats of Ruslan Inyatkin on demand, but I simply don’t know jack about boilers, burners, furnaces, coils and that speak. Has anyone had a similar experience converting over these systems and can offer any helpful advice?

 

[bfs3]

Heat pumps definitely produce heat below 30 degrees lol. Here is a nice heat source cost comparison for CT and MA:

Heating Cost Comparison Calculator

There are some nice rebates available as well.

No standard split system air source heat pumps do not. Inverter ones do. That’s why Mitsubishi makes a “Hyper Heat” line. You can get those with a Mitsubishi air handler for $20K but it still won’t provide enough BTUs on cold nights for most homes. If you’re mistaking the heat strip then that’s understandable. Non HVAC ppl who give HVAC advice is why I make more than a doctor each year and why your HVAC company charges 10% more than they should. Really anyone in doubt should call for a quote, you’ll get free expert advice.

I helped write the rebates and trained the 3 inspectors in the Energize CT program. That tool is mostly BS as most houses are way more leaky than they know (unless brand new) and it doesn’t take into account the electric resistance that is heating your house after your heat pump condenser stops making 90 degree air. Unless it’s a magic heat pump.

 

[JohnFSilver]

It’s actually not bad. Can do 2 showers simultaneously. When all the kids and grandkids are here it seems to be fine. Didn’t do a bath very well though. The temp was tweaked a few months ago (and may need to be lowered), so it might do a bath now. After the flood at our last home, I’ll never go for a tank again, but that was over 30 years ago, so I’d hope they’re better now.

If you get a boiler, go indirect. tankless sucks, imo.

Indirect water heating is tremendous. The tank lasts forever and the water is heated by same fuel scoured as your heat. I had a tankless system with a oil fired boiler with a coil. The damn coil was destroyed twice in three years by hard water.

We capped the coil before and set up an indirect system. When we switched to LP, they just added a third zone for my water heater. It’s amazing.

For oil to LP conversion. I paid $10k. Setting up an indirect is about $3000. Those tanks don’t go bad. Some have lifetime warranties.

 

[bfs3]

If you get a boiler, go indirect. tankless sucks, imo.

Indirect water heating is tremendous. The tank lasts forever and the water is heated by same fuel scoured as your heat. I had a tankless system with a oil fired boiler with a coil. The damn coil was destroyed twice in three years by hard water.

We capped the coil before and set up an indirect system. When we diverted to LP, they just list added a third zone for my water heater. It’s amazing.

For oil to LP conversion. I paid $10k. Setting up an indirect is about $3000. Those tanks don’t go bad. Some have lifetime warranties.

Indirect are hands down the best. Price installed varies but a few years ago $3500 was the going rate, a little more if it’s not already set up for it. Aluminum I prefer over glass lined but both are 20+ years.

 

[NJHusky]

If you get a boiler, go indirect. tankless sucks, imo.

Indirect water heating is tremendous. The tank lasts forever and the water is heated by same fuel scoured as your heat. I had a tankless system with a oil fired boiler with a coil. The damn coil was destroyed twice in three years by hard water.

We capped the coil before and set up an indirect system. When we switched to LP, they just added a third zone for my water heater. It’s amazing.

For oil to LP conversion. I paid $10k. Setting up an indirect is about $3000. Those tanks don’t go bad. Some have lifetime warranties.

We have an indirect in our ski house...and it's great...even with both showers running for an hour with all the guests...no issues...but it takes a chunk of space.

Just installed a tankless to save space in my residence, and so far it's been fine too...but the gmp isn't quite as good

 

[uconntoatl]

A few years ago I bought my first house (built in the 90s) with all original mechanicals still chugging along. We have oil that fuels both the furnace (forced hot air) and hot water heater using oil burners, in addition to central A/C so the whole house is already ducted. I would like to upgrade all of this, preferably moving entirely away from oil. We are on borrowed time especially with the ol’ Superstor water heater ready to burst at the seams.

I see there are loads of incentives (energizeCT rebates + loans, federal tax credits) for heat pump units and hot water heaters, I just don’t know how well these perform in our climate and whether these are suitable replacements here.

I spoke to a couple HVAC tech’s who both mentioned that heat pumps need a backup heat source for cold days (<30 degrees F), yet I have seen units in my limited research that are rated for performance down to -15F.

I can recite the career stats of Ruslan Inyatkin on demand, but I simply don’t know jack about boilers, burners, furnaces, coils and that speak. Has anyone had a similar experience converting over these systems and can offer any helpful advice?

I work for an energy efficiency company on the Cape. Cold Climate Heat Pumps should work fine. There is a switch over temperature (aka a certain temperature) where it becomes more cost effective to run heat from other fuels if you have another backup heating system. One tie bit about heat pumps, they use the most energy when they are ramping up or down in temperature, so recommendation is to keep your thermostat a steady temperature, vs setting it back five degrees at night then ramping it back up during the day.

 

[drayenob]

No standard split system air source heat pumps do not. Inverter ones do. That’s why Mitsubishi makes a “Hyper Heat” line. You can get those with a Mitsubishi air handler for $20K but it still won’t provide enough BTUs on cold nights for most homes. If you’re mistaking the heat strip then that’s understandable. Non HVAC ppl who give HVAC advice is why I make more than a doctor each year and why your HVAC company charges 10% more than they should. Really anyone in doubt should call for a quote, you’ll get free expert advice.

I helped write the rebates and trained the 3 inspectors in the Energize CT program. That tool is mostly BS as most houses are way more leaky than they know (unless brand new) and it doesn’t take into account the electric resistance that is heating your house after your heat pump condenser stops making 90 degree air. Unless it’s a magic heat pump.

So thank you for confirming that heat pumps produce heat below 30 degrees.

Wouldn't leakiness remain constant across all heating types? The tool is useful because it shows the relative costs of different fuel types.

 

[Petero]

I live in Central New York (and still a rabid UConn fan) with a solar panel system and a ductless mini split system in a 4,200 sq ft 1850 farmhouse. Both have been installed over a year and here are our results.

We used our back up heat (a natural gas ducted furnace) just 2 days last winter only when the temp/wind chill reached -35. Normal lows can be and were -10 and we had no problems. New air source heat pumps are vastly better than even 3 yr old units. Don't worry about the "not below 30" scare tactics from traditional hvac guys. Our home is much more comfortable, has A/C (modestly used given where we live) and much quieter.

Our systems were installed in Oct and Nov and thus the solar production was low during the winter but by March we were producing enough to break even.The months April-October produced enough extra that I don't expect a bill of any size from now on. The air source system is 30% more efficient at making heat than a central heating system .

Before you make any decisions understand your rebates for your state, they do vary, and can make a difference in your $$$ invested and your payback. Combing solar and air source heat pumps is the ideal if you can swing it.

Finally, when it comes to choosing the actual units, research the options thoroughly.The brand name Co's produce units designed for different temperature zones. Prices can be steep if you chase the big boys. Some nonstandard names offer excellent products at 40% less with the same or better warranties. We chose units from a company named Senville, and their Artic Aura series which works to about -30f. The installer has had them in his own home for 3 years and had only things to say about them. After a full year we agree with him

Good luck.

 

[uconnfan68]

If you get a boiler, go indirect. tankless sucks, imo.

Indirect water heating is tremendous. The tank lasts forever and the water is heated by same fuel scoured as your heat. I had a tankless system with a oil fired boiler with a coil. The damn coil was destroyed twice in three years by hard water.

We capped the coil before and set up an indirect system. When we switched to LP, they just added a third zone for my water heater. It’s amazing.

For oil to LP conversion. I paid $10k. Setting up an indirect is about $3000. Those tanks don’t go bad. Some have lifetime warranties.

We just replaced the boiler (learning a lot in this thread). Uses oil and has tankless water heater. We only use about 4 tanks of oil a year (2 story colonial type, but only 1600-1700 sq ft), so we’re pleased with that. Only 2 of us left except when the kids visit. We just hope we’ve done our last major replacement. The golden years is when you lose all your gold.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So thank you for confirming that heat pumps produce heat below 30 degrees.

Wouldn't leakiness remain constant across all heating types? The tool is useful because it shows the relative costs of different fuel types.

It a below 30 right now, in early December. Can they handle this? Sure. Get a blanket. Can they handle January? No. Not realistically. It’s wishful thinking.

 

[Matrim55]

I live in Central New York (and still a rabid UConn fan) with a solar panel system and a ductless mini split system in a 4,200 sq ft 1850 farmhouse. Both have been installed over a year and here are our results.

We used our back up heat (a natural gas ducted furnace) just 2 days last winter only when the temp/wind chill reached -35. Normal lows can be and were -10 and we had no problems. New air source heat pumps are vastly better than even 3 yr old units. Don't worry about the "not below 30" scare tactics from traditional hvac guys. Our home is much more comfortable, has A/C (modestly used given where we live) and much quieter.

Our systems were installed in Oct and Nov and thus the solar production was low during the winter but by March we were producing enough to break even.The months April-October produced enough extra that I don't expect a bill of any size from now on. The air source system is 30% more efficient at making heat than a central heating system .

Before you make any decisions understand your rebates for your state, they do vary, and can make a difference in your $$$ invested and your payback. Combing solar and air source heat pumps is the ideal if you can swing it.

Finally, when it comes to choosing the actual units, research the options thoroughly.The brand name Co's produce units designed for different temperature zones. Prices can be steep if you chase the big boys. Some nonstandard names offer excellent products at 40% less with the same or better warranties. We chose units from a company named Senville, and their Artic Aura series which works to about -30f. The installer has had them in his own home for 3 years and had only things to say about them. After a full year we agree with him

Good luck.

What a great, in-depth post. Thanks for sharing.

 

[auror]

We switched from oil to gas boiler last year (maybe 2 years ago now) in MA. We've got Mitsbushi Mr Slim mini splits in 3 rooms with heat pumps that we inherited when we bought the house as well, but they're not controlled by our thermostats with schedule so we tend to just run the boiler for heat and manually turn on the splits when hot in the summer for A/C. We don't have a split in 1 child's bedroom, so another reason we need to rely on the main heater.

We will occasionally use the heat pumps to heat on the mildly cold days or when we go away and turn off/down the heat and forget to turn it back on remotely before we get back. It does heat faster when it can keep up/efficiently. But the models we have definitely do struggle when it gets cold cold, the times when you need heat the most.

 

[bfs3]

I work for an energy efficiency company on the Cape. Cold Climate Heat Pumps should work fine. There is a switch over temperature (aka a certain temperature) where it becomes more cost effective to run heat from other fuels if you have another backup heating system. One tie bit about heat pumps, they use the most energy when they are ramping up or down in temperature, so recommendation is to keep your thermostat a steady temperature, vs setting it back five degrees at night then ramping it back up during the day.

Do you work in the Mass Saves program? That’s a great program. Here in Atlanta I was invited to a meeting to discuss the future of GA powers program. They are bringing in out of state companies in the hope of jump starting it. They want to do much more but unfortunately without incentives and rebates I don’t believe it will be successful.

If I’m heating my home with Oil, Propane or electricity I’m 100% getting a heat pump. Especially if you have solar. Some homes with old hot air systems and no existing AC may need new ductwork to accommodate the air flow but it’s a one time cost. I just wouldn’t get rid of my secondary heat source. You can heat your entire home with ductless units but with ducted split systems they’re almost all expensive communicating variable capacity systems that will heat below 30 degrees. And if you have a house that needs more than 60K heating BTUs in the winter you’ll need a second system. All of this is solved by having a secondary heat source. Even if it’s a giant toaster in your air handler.

For what it’s worth, if I’m buying one for my home I’m going to look at Bosch. There aren’t many companies that advertise them because they don’t have a full product line to lean on. They cost about as much as a cheaper Daikin/Amana system but are built and work like a high end Lennox Signature or Carrier Infinity system. They also aren’t all communicating. They cycle through stages using pressure sensors. This means you can add it to an existing furnace or air handler without dropping $20-30K. The technicians I’ve had install them all agree they’re awesome and customers love them. They also meet the rebate requirements and the Tax Credit requirements.

Homes in CT can be vastly different from each other regardless of size. Try not to compare your solution to another homeowners (relative, neighbor etc.) and get three quotes. Tell them everything you’re looking for and don’t keep your budget a secret. Don’t hire any AC contractor that doesn’t evaluate or measure your ductwork. That’s the hallmark of a lazy HVAC contractor.

If anyone wants or needs a Manual J to get a rough estimate of AC/Heat Pump sizing done remotely for their home you can message me privately.

 

[bfs3]

I live in Central New York (and still a rabid UConn fan) with a solar panel system and a ductless mini split system in a 4,200 sq ft 1850 farmhouse. Both have been installed over a year and here are our results.

We used our back up heat (a natural gas ducted furnace) just 2 days last winter only when the temp/wind chill reached -35. Normal lows can be and were -10 and we had no problems. New air source heat pumps are vastly better than even 3 yr old units. Don't worry about the "not below 30" scare tactics from traditional hvac guys. Our home is much more comfortable, has A/C (modestly used given where we live) and much quieter.

Our systems were installed in Oct and Nov and thus the solar production was low during the winter but by March we were producing enough to break even.The months April-October produced enough extra that I don't expect a bill of any size from now on. The air source system is 30% more efficient at making heat than a central heating system .

Before you make any decisions understand your rebates for your state, they do vary, and can make a difference in your $$$ invested and your payback. Combing solar and air source heat pumps is the ideal if you can swing it.

Finally, when it comes to choosing the actual units, research the options thoroughly.The brand name Co's produce units designed for different temperature zones. Prices can be steep if you chase the big boys. Some nonstandard names offer excellent products at 40% less with the same or better warranties. We chose units from a company named Senville, and their Artic Aura series which works to about -30f. The installer has had them in his own home for 3 years and had only things to say about them. After a full year we agree with him

Good luck.

lol they aren’t scare tactics. It’s simply telling someone they shouldn’t get rid of a secondary heat source. Your application sounds excellent and it it sounds like a lot of time and money was invested. Single stage heat pumps are still the most commonly installed units though and you still need a secondary heat source when buying them. A HVAC contractor wouldn’t get a permit if he was planning to heat a house with just a split heat pump system and no secondary heat source. That doesn’t mean it’s not a great idea to have one if you’re heating with Oil, Propane, Electric or having solar panels installed. In fact a contractor would be doing their client a disservice by not recommending them.

I’m far from a traditional HVAC guy though. I began my career in the Energy Efficiency Industry and transitioned into HVAC design and sales as the pay is much higher.

Heat Pumps haven’t changed drastically in 3 years though. They’ve gone from 25 SEER to 28/30 for top of the line models but they still work the same way. Communicating inverter systems have been around for over a decade. Just not all HVAC companies are familiar with them.
The danger in advising someone else is they may take the advice you gave from having a two stage or inverter heat pump and compare it to a single stage 14 SEER that’s in their budget. 80% of all ACs and Heat Pumps sold last summer in CT were all the minimum efficiency allowed by law. They have very different capabilities and achieve different results depending on your home and set up.

 

[bfs3]

I live in Central New York (and still a rabid UConn fan) with a solar panel system and a ductless mini split system in a 4,200 sq ft 1850 farmhouse. Both have been installed over a year and here are our results.

We used our back up heat (a natural gas ducted furnace) just 2 days last winter only when the temp/wind chill reached -35. Normal lows can be and were -10 and we had no problems. New air source heat pumps are vastly better than even 3 yr old units. Don't worry about the "not below 30" scare tactics from traditional hvac guys. Our home is much more comfortable, has A/C (modestly used given where we live) and much quieter.

Our systems were installed in Oct and Nov and thus the solar production was low during the winter but by March we were producing enough to break even.The months April-October produced enough extra that I don't expect a bill of any size from now on. The air source system is 30% more efficient at making heat than a central heating system .

Before you make any decisions understand your rebates for your state, they do vary, and can make a difference in your $$$ invested and your payback. Combing solar and air source heat pumps is the ideal if you can swing it.

Finally, when it comes to choosing the actual units, research the options thoroughly.The brand name Co's produce units designed for different temperature zones. Prices can be steep if you chase the big boys. Some nonstandard names offer excellent products at 40% less with the same or better warranties. We chose units from a company named Senville, and their Artic Aura series which works to about -30f. The installer has had them in his own home for 3 years and had only things to say about them. After a full year we agree with him

Good luck.

I missed where you said it was ductless. The capabilities of a ductless system to heat an home are very different from the much more commonly installed ducted systems. You can over size them to heat your house without ruining your cooling capabilities in the summer. They’re modulating. So it can put out 42K heating BTUs in the winter and then lower to 12K cooling BTUs on a mild summer day. They also almost all put out their maximum heating BTUs down to zero degrees (some down to -25 degrees). These can be used to heat an entire home without a secondary heat source.

Too many people either don’t like the way they look or they can’t afford them if they need multiple indoor heads. They are the best electric heating system and I can’t recommend them enough, especially if you have solar. Their capabilities are far greater than a conventional ducted heat pump system though. They really shouldn’t be compared until the latter catches up to capability. Unfortunately they make up the vast majority of Heat Pump systems in the U.S. while the rest of the world uses ductless systems. Most people are going to replace their already existing AC system with a Heat Pump. It’s still a great idea in many cases but if they rip out their secondary heat source or their emergency strips then they’re going to find themselves in a mess during a cold snap.

My house in West Hartford was a 4200 sq foot barn converted into a home. I never had a gas bill over $200 in the winter but I did have 8.0 tons of AC. It would have cost more than a boiler to switch them to heat pumps and my bills would have been higher to heat with them. If I had oil or propane and didn’t already have ductwork I would have gone ductless. A ducted heat pump set up would have cost a fortune to install and would have cost a fortune to heat with during a cold snap.

 

[tdrink]

I'm a contractor in CT. I have many clients that I have helped convert to heat pump systems. My hvac guy uses Mitsubishi Hyper heat models and my clients have had no complaints about them keeping up even at -10 degrees.

Hvac guy has done efficiency calculations and admits that the split system costs more to run than an oil boiler during an average winter but it’s close and gets you AC in the summer.

The enticing rebates are supposed to be for people who convert to splits as their primary heat source. The electric company is doing that to get you to use more electricity and they make up the cost by raising rates.

 

[bfs3]

I'm a contractor in CT. I have many clients that I have helped convert to heat pump systems. My hvac guy uses Mitsubishi Hyper heat models and my clients have had no complaints about them keeping up even at -10 degrees.

Hvac guy has done efficiency calculations and admits that the split system costs more to run than an oil boiler during an average winter but it’s close and gets you AC in the summer.

The enticing rebates are supposed to be for people who convert to splits as their primary heat source. The electric company is doing that to get you to use more electricity and they make up the cost by raising rates.

Those are ductless systems. Has Mitsubishi developed a way to pair their air handler to the Hyper Heat condenser without adding a mini split yet? They’re expensive but it’s the best. The problem is most people don’t know the difference between a ductless system and a ducted heat pump. They then think that they can replace their heating system with a $6500 basic heat pump condenser. That and 2/3 still seem to have an issue with the way ductless looks.

The electric companies get government incentives for their efficiency program. According to them they lose money selling electricity most years. They were legally obligated to pay for more electricity than they sold by the state. They purchase the electricity from companies that generate it. They say they would prefer consumers buy from a 3rd party while they make their money from the delivery charges. That’s one reason why they supported regulation changes. According to them they’ll be more profitable if people use less electricity. I have no idea if it’s true but that’s what some executives explained to me when working on the rebate program.

 

[jibsey]

I’d be interested to know what the electric bills in January or February would be heating entirely with an air heat pump because the compressor would be running a lot more to produce heat. Getting heat out of under 30 degrees or 20 degrees is not easy and Ct electric rates are killer. IMO you need backup, ie wood, propane, oil, pellets,whatever.

 

[drayenob]

I missed where you said it was ductless. The capabilities of a ductless system to heat an home are very different from the much more commonly installed ducted systems. You can over size them to heat your house without ruining your cooling capabilities in the summer. They’re modulating. So it can put out 42K heating BTUs in the winter and then lower to 12K cooling BTUs on a mild summer day. They also almost all put out their maximum heating BTUs down to zero degrees (some down to -25 degrees). These can be used to heat an entire home without a secondary heat source.

Too many people either don’t like the way they look or they can’t afford them if they need multiple indoor heads. They are the best electric heating system and I can’t recommend them enough, especially if you have solar. Their capabilities are far greater than a conventional ducted heat pump system though. They really shouldn’t be compared until the latter catches up to capability. Unfortunately they make up the vast majority of Heat Pump systems in the U.S. while the rest of the world uses ductless systems. Most people are going to replace their already existing AC system with a Heat Pump. It’s still a great idea in many cases but if they rip out their secondary heat source or their emergency strips then they’re going to find themselves in a mess during a cold snap.

My house in West Hartford was a 4200 sq foot barn converted into a home. I never had a gas bill over $200 in the winter but I did have 8.0 tons of AC. It would have cost more than a boiler to switch them to heat pumps and my bills would have been higher to heat with them. If I had oil or propane and didn’t already have ductwork I would have gone ductless. A ducted heat pump set up would have cost a fortune to install and would have cost a fortune to heat with during a cold snap.

I have a Mitsubishi ductless system with 7 heads and 2 outdoor units and solar. Our house built in '65 had baseboard hot water and no central air. The price of my ductless system was the same, after rebates, as a new central air system with duct work. For cooling it has been very economical. For heating it is set up to switch over to oil when the temp goes below 20 but I can adjust that through an app. So far it hasn't switched over and, because we also have solar and net metering, we are heating using the credit generated over the spring and summer. I do fire up the wood stove when it goes into the low 20's but that's just because I want to try to extend the solar credit through the whole heating season. It took me awhile to understand that it is more economical to just leave the temp at 68 rather than setting it back at night.

 

[uconntoatl]

Do you work in the Mass Saves program? That’s a great program. Here in Atlanta I was invited to a meeting to discuss the future of GA powers program. They are bringing in out of state companies in the hope of jump starting it. They want to do much more but unfortunately without incentives and rebates I don’t believe it will be successful.

If I’m heating my home with Oil, Propane or electricity I’m 100% getting a heat pump. Especially if you have solar. Some homes with old hot air systems and no existing AC may need new ductwork to accommodate the air flow but it’s a one time cost. I just wouldn’t get rid of my secondary heat source. You can heat your entire home with ductless units but with ducted split systems they’re almost all expensive communicating variable capacity systems that will heat below 30 degrees. And if you have a house that needs more than 60K heating BTUs in the winter you’ll need a second system. All of this is solved by having a secondary heat source. Even if it’s a giant toaster in your air handler.

For what it’s worth, if I’m buying one for my home I’m going to look at Bosch. There aren’t many companies that advertise them because they don’t have a full product line to lean on. They cost about as much as a cheaper Daikin/Amana system but are built and work like a high end Lennox Signature or Carrier Infinity system. They also aren’t all communicating. They cycle through stages using pressure sensors. This means you can add it to an existing furnace or air handler without dropping $20-30K. The technicians I’ve had install them all agree they’re awesome and customers love them. They also meet the rebate requirements and the Tax Credit requirements.

Homes in CT can be vastly different from each other regardless of size. Try not to compare your solution to another homeowners (relative, neighbor etc.) and get three quotes. Tell them everything you’re looking for and don’t keep your budget a secret. Don’t hire any AC contractor that doesn’t evaluate or measure your ductwork. That’s the hallmark of a lazy HVAC contractor.

If anyone wants or needs a Manual J to get a rough estimate of AC/Heat Pump sizing done remotely for their home you can message me privately.

Yep, company I work for feeds into Mass Save.

 

[bfs3]

I have a Mitsubishi ductless system with 7 heads and 2 outdoor units and solar. Our house built in '65 had baseboard hot water and no central air. The price of my ductless system was the same, after rebates, as a new central air system with duct work. For cooling it has been very economical. For heating it is set up to switch over to oil when the temp goes below 20 but I can adjust that through an app. So far it hasn't switched over and, because we also have solar and net metering, we are heating using the credit generated over the spring and summer. I do fire up the wood stove when it goes into the low 20's but that's just because I want to try to extend the solar credit through the whole heating season. It took me awhile to understand that it is more economical to just leave the temp at 68 rather than setting it back at night.

That’s a great set up. Before the rebates a few years ago it was a pretty pricey set up. Then again so is adding central air. You also have the benefit of a 7-Zone system. If they sized it for heating you probably don’t need anything else. The inverter also does a great job dehumidifying. I’ve been involved with several of those projects. The downside is that after a few years if one of your heads leaks/breaks you typically have to replace that entire system. They change the communications frequently and they aren’t backwards compatible. Make sure you keep the filters clean and stay on top of that 12 yr warranty. There are some very expensive set ups in West Hartford that aren’t doing anything because the guy who bought the house can’t afford the cost of replacing his 5-Zone Fujitsu that’s 6 years old (non transferable warranty)

My other posts were all referring to ducted heat pump systems. They still make up the vast majority of systems. Homeowners typically aren’t aware of the differences. They take data and information about ductless heat pumps and mistake it for ducted. Hopefully soon they’ll make a ducted inverter affordable. Right now Bosch is the best value for those that I’m aware of. A 3.0 ton Lennox 25 SEER I last saw quoted for $32,000 without replacing any ductwork. A 2/3 Zone mini split before rebates would be less than half. I still recommend adding a ducted heat pump of any efficiency to a propane or oil hot air furnace. However long it manages to heat your home you’re saving money. Also, it’s not much more expensive than just replacing your AC coil and condenser.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That’s a great set up. Before the rebates a few years ago it was a pretty pricey set up. Then again so is adding central air. You also have the benefit of a 7-Zone system. If they sized it for heating you probably don’t need anything else. The inverter also does a great job dehumidifying. I’ve been involved with several of those projects. The downside is that after a few years if one of your heads leaks/breaks you typically have to replace that entire system. They change the communications frequently and they aren’t backwards compatible. Make sure you keep the filters clean and stay on top of that 12 yr warranty. There are some very expensive set ups in West Hartford that aren’t doing anything because the guy who bought the house can’t afford the cost of replacing his 5-Zone Fujitsu that’s 6 years old (non transferable warranty)

My other posts were all referring to ducted heat pump systems. They still make up the vast majority of systems. Homeowners typically aren’t aware of the differences. They take data and information about ductless heat pumps and mistake it for ducted. Hopefully soon they’ll make a ducted inverter affordable. Right now Bosch is the best value for those that I’m aware of. A 3.0 ton Lennox 25 SEER I last saw quoted for $32,000 without replacing any ductwork. A 2/3 Zone mini split before rebates would be less than half. I still recommend adding a ducted heat pump of any efficiency to a propane or oil hot air furnace. However long it manages to heat your home you’re saving money. Also, it’s not much more expensive than just replacing your AC coil and condenser.

Questions about ductless. I have about 3800 sq feet, including a finished basement. I have central AC second floor and a ductless mini split AC 1st floor. Oil baseboard heat all three floors. How many units would it take to heat a house like that? I'd assume at least two per floor, and even then I'd worry that some areas would be hot and some too cold.

 

[bfs3]

Questions about ductless. I have about 3800 sq feet, including a finished basement. I have central AC second floor and a ductless mini split AC 1st floor. Oil baseboard heat all three floors. How many units would it take to heat a house like that? I'd assume at least two per floor, and even then I'd worry that some areas would be hot and some too cold.

So the tricky thing about answering that question isn’t the size but the layout. One unit can create 36k BTUs or 4 can. It depends how open the space is and if you’re want to close bedroom doors. If you have 3/4 bedrooms upstairs and your downstairs is pretty open then your best bet is a ducted heat pump upstairs and a second mini split downstairs on the opposite side. Just remember for every indoor unit they need to run copper pipes to connect to that outdoor unit. If you’re ok with how that looks then you count one for each bedroom/room that closes with a door and downstairs atleast 2. One on opposite sides. If the basement is open you can get away with one 12K unit. Using rule of thumb, you’ll need 70-100K BTUs to heat 3800 sq feet. If part of that is your basement then it’s on the lower side. Of course lots of variables can change that number. Age, insulation values, windows and orientation of the home.

I would recommend getting a quote on a Mitsubishi ducted system. A 36K Condenser (or larger if a 42/ or 48k is available). They can replace your upstairs air handler with Mitsubishis 24/30K air handler and install a 12K mini split downstairs on the same super efficient condenser. Then you set your boilers thermostat to 65 and if kicks on you know it’s time to shut off the heat pump. This would be super efficient and your AC would be top of line and dehumidify.

If that doesn’t work for your budget or the house layout I would get a quote on a Bosch ducted heat pump to replace your upstairs AC and another single zone for downstairs. An 18K is only a few hundred more than a 12K for a single zone. These will both be rebate eligible and meet any special financing offers Energize CT is offering. You don’t eliminate the boiler but you won’t be using it much at all. I prefer the Bosch because it’s heavy duty and costs about $5-8K less than a Lennox or Carrier at the same efficiency.

 

[RC111]

Maine is one of the biggest growth markets in the country for heat pumps. They must be able to function on some level in cold weather.

This. I am moving to Maine in January. Every single new or renovated home that we looked at there has heat pumps. We've had to hold off on buying till the spring, but I can guarantee the home we buy will have a couple heat pumps.

The other thing I'll note, as someone with a parent and grandparents from Maine, and someone who has spent a lot of time there: a huge portion of Mainers are thrifty beyond your imagination. They're not using pumps for reason other than finances.


I once showed up at a shopping plaza on the outskirts of Portland and every single store sign was shut off at 6PM and the business I needed to visit had all its inside lights off, too. The owner was standing behind the register in 40 degree weather with a veritable parka on and the smallest little space heater running just enough to keep him from turning into a popsicle. I told him I'd almost gone home cause I thought he was closed. He told me it saves a lot on the electric keeping the lights off. I legit used a flashlight on my phone to search the store...

 

[HuskyHawk]

This. I am moving to Maine in January. Every single new or renovated home that we looked at there has heat pumps. We've had to hold off on buying till the spring, but I can guarantee the home we buy will have a couple heat pumps.

The other thing I'll note, as someone with a parent and grandparents from Maine, and someone who has spent a lot of time there: a huge portion of Mainers are thrifty beyond your imagination. They're not using pumps for reason other than finances.


I once showed up at a shopping plaza on the outskirts of Portland and every single store sign was shut off at 6PM and the business I needed to visit had all its inside lights off, too. The owner was standing behind the register in 40 degree weather with a veritable parka on and the smallest little space heater running just enough to keep him from turning into a popsicle. I told him I'd almost gone home cause I thought he was closed. He told me it saves a lot on the electric keeping the lights off. I legit used a flashlight on my phone to search the store...

which is why I suggested, like in Vermont as well, a lot of them have supplemental wood stoves. Pretty cheap way to heat up there.

 

[NJHusky]

which is why I suggested, like in Vermont as well, a lot of them have supplemental wood stoves. Pretty cheap way to heat up there.

Many folks now are using pellet stoves instead...especially if more concerned about heating than aesthetics. Easy to buy pellets and the stove auto feeds