Governor Malloy Won't Push For Costly XL Center Upgrades

[Drew]

http://www.courant.com/real-estate/property-line/hc-xl-center-no-new-funding-20160201-story.html

"A $250 million transformation of the city's aging XL Center arena won't be getting a place in the state's capital budget for the next fiscal year, as Connecticut faces a looming deficit and the governor is pledging no new taxes.


Dannel P. Malloy's budget proposal said the XL Center project will not be included in the spending plan. The budget will be revealed when the legislature convenes on Wednesday. Malloy has already described the budget as "austere.""

 

[UConnTrumbull]

This should go over well.

 

[CL82]

I don't know, it's hard to make the case for the spending given the circumstances.

 

[upstater]

Surprised to find out the Wolfpack practice at the XL Center.

Really, they can't find another rink?

 

[Exit 4]

At least you can take a bus from Hartford to New Britain now....

 

[JSM1970]

Yes, pretty much by yourself and soon to East Hartford.

#progress

At least you can take a bus from Hartford to New Britain now....

 

[DarthGrumpy]

No surprise really, revenue is down and if money is to be spent, it has to be focused on the transportation network (I-84 replacement in Hartford, commuter service between Springfield & New Haven, expanded capacity train service between New Haven and New York, etc.) as that is what will keep jobs and people in the state, not a shiny, new XL Center.

I know I am in the minority; but, it is going to take a while for CT to get its house in order and working with Hartford is always a worrisome experience. Replace Gampel with an on-campus, dual-purposed basketball and hockey arenas with a 12,000/6,000 capacity where Gampel is today or behind Storrs Center. Having separate arenas is preferable; but, UConn does not have the money for it and this would be a better use of money that refurnishing Gampel and upgrading Freitas as it addresses two urgent needs and does not rely on Hartford to get it done.

 

[CL82]

No surprise really, revenue is down and if money is to be spent, it has to be focused on the transportation network (I-84 replacement in Hartford, commuter service between Springfield & New Haven, expanded capacity train service between New Haven and New York, etc.) as that is what will keep jobs and people in the state, not a shiny, new XL Center.

I know I am in the minority; but, it is going to take a while for CT to get its house in order and working with Hartford is always a worrisome experience. Replace Gampel with an on-campus, dual-purposed basketball and hockey arenas with a 12,000/6,000 capacity where Gampel is today or behind Storrs Center. Having separate arenas is preferable; but, UConn does not have the money for it and this would be a better use of money that refurnishing Gampel and upgrading Freitas as it addresses two urgent needs and does not rely on Hartford to get it done.

Agree generally, but I'd rather see separate venues.

 

[Exit 4]

Yes, pretty much by yourself and soon to East Hartford.

#progress

Plus the 15 to 20m annual operating subsidy after sinking 1/2billion.

 

[JSM1970]

More Union jobs = more unfunded liabilities

Plus the 15 to 20m annual operating subsidy after sinking 1/2billion.

 

[NYUConn]

More Union jobs = more unfunded liabilities

Assuming your using state employee unions for construction, which because of prevailing wage legislation in the state, allows the government to contract out to private sector union and non-union labor provided that workforce pays the prevailing wage in the industry.

If the state contracts with a non-government, union workforce there are no unfunded liabilities.

 

[JSM1970]

What about all the people supporting the money losing busline? Driver's, repair, track maintenance, any people in finance/ticketing? I'm sure these are all Union state employees (probably several hundred) that are working for on something that is a huge waste, beyond the huge construction and startup costs.

CT is a complete death spiral. Continue raising taxes, people and companies leave, revenue goes down, huge deficits, no structural changes and raise taxes again.

Assuming your using state employee unions for construction, which because of prevailing wage legislation in the state, allows the government to contract out to private sector union and non-union labor provided that workforce pays the prevailing wage in the industry.

If the state contracts with a non-government, union workforce there are no unfunded liabilities.

 

[SubbaBub]

It's hard to argue for a new arena in Hartford without a major tenant. And no, I don't consider a college to be a major tenant.

The CR kicker is will there be money to upgrade on campus facilities? I think that money is safe for now. But, it would be a CR kick in the nuts if the hockey rink isn't fast tracked.

 

[NYUConn]

What about all the people supporting the money losing busline? Driver's, repair, track maintenance, any people in finance/ticketing? I'm sure these are all Union state employees (probably several hundred) that are working for on something that is a huge waste, beyond the huge construction and startup costs.

CT is a complete death spiral. Continue raising taxes, people and companies leave, revenue goes down, huge deficits, no structural changes and raise taxes again.

The CT Fast track that created hundreds of construction jobs and was funded by federal grants?

It's been in operation for less than a year but it's already outpacing projected monthly ridership numbers by a couple thousand people monthly. Initial year one estimates for Fast Track were 11,200 monthly riders. As of last fall they were averaging 16,000.

All this is not the point of my post though.

The point is that you are conflating all union jobs with state/municipal union jobs which include pension and health liabilities on top of salary.

Non-government unions use private pension and health systems and if the city of Hartford/State of Connecticut use them for work then the cost of labor to taxpayers will be kept lower.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

No surprise really, revenue is down and if money is to be spent, it has to be focused on the transportation network (I-84 replacement in Hartford, commuter service between Springfield & New Haven, expanded capacity train service between New Haven and New York, etc.) as that is what will keep jobs and people in the state, not a shiny, new XL Center.

I know I am in the minority; but, it is going to take a while for CT to get its house in order and working with Hartford is always a worrisome experience. Replace Gampel with an on-campus, dual-purposed basketball and hockey arenas with a 12,000/6,000 capacity where Gampel is today or behind Storrs Center. Having separate arenas is preferable; but, UConn does not have the money for it and this would be a better use of money that refurnishing Gampel and upgrading Freitas as it addresses two urgent needs and does not rely on Hartford to get it done.

I don't support a nickel going to sports arenas in big cities. If a sports arena can't get private funding, it isn't a good idea.

 

[Exit 4]

The busway cost the state 113M, the balance carried by federal transportation grants.
http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/CT_Hartford_New_Britain-Hartford_Busway_Profile_FY14.pdf

Operating budgets going forward to operate the system pegged at 17.5M for now.
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-busway-cost-0928-20150927-story.html

Now envisioning new plans to add more operating deficits...
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-new-britain-busway-0609-20150608-story.html

 

[Ts5034]

Im shocked this hasnt turned into a Gampel vs XL Center thread yet.

 

[Exit 4]

For comparative purposes, the state's subsidy to run Metro-North and Shoreline East is approx 35% (trains fares are 65% of the budget) of the total annual cost, while the Bussway is running at 77% subsidized with passengers paying just 23% of operating costs. In short, the Bussway should nearly triple its fares or reduce those ancillary routes to 'normalize' the operating subsidy.

train budget:
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/ofarpt/2013OFA-1458.htm

 

[MASSconn]

Im shocked this hasnt turned into a Gampel vs XL Center thread yet.

Oh we can change that

Knock over XL, build a new one. Only home games at Gampel for 3 years.By the time its ready we're in the B1G and decide to expand Gampel, play some big games at MSG.

 

[upstater]

No surprise really, revenue is down and if money is to be spent, it has to be focused on the transportation network (I-84 replacement in Hartford, commuter service between Springfield & New Haven, expanded capacity train service between New Haven and New York, etc.) as that is what will keep jobs and people in the state, not a shiny, new XL Center.

I know I am in the minority; but, it is going to take a while for CT to get its house in order and working with Hartford is always a worrisome experience. Replace Gampel with an on-campus, dual-purposed basketball and hockey arenas with a 12,000/6,000 capacity where Gampel is today or behind Storrs Center. Having separate arenas is preferable; but, UConn does not have the money for it and this would be a better use of money that refurnishing Gampel and upgrading Freitas as it addresses two urgent needs and does not rely on Hartford to get it done.

When PSU looked into retrofitting the Bryce Jordan Center for hockey, it was determined to be cost prohibitive. Two buildings were cheaper than one.

Something to keep in mind.

 

[upstater]

What about all the people supporting the money losing busline? Driver's, repair, track maintenance, any people in finance/ticketing? I'm sure these are all Union state employees (probably several hundred) that are working for on something that is a huge waste, beyond the huge construction and startup costs.

CT is a complete death spiral. Continue raising taxes, people and companies leave, revenue goes down, huge deficits, no structural changes and raise taxes again.

If Connecticut were in a death spiral, it wouldn't be so congested.

 

[JSM1970]

It's a total death spiral, this can take years and decades.

Basically the state is running huge deficits and the only solution the politicians offer is just to raise taxes and this is actually resulting in lower revenues while costs increase because they are unwilling to cut services or people, or adjust the retiree benefits. It's not sustainable, hence the death spiral analogy.

If Connecticut were in a death spiral, it wouldn't be so congested.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It's a total death spiral, this can take years and decades.

Basically the state is running huge deficits and the only solution the politicians offer is just to raise taxes and this is actually resulting in lower revenues while costs increase because they are unwilling to cut services or people, or adjust the retiree benefits. It's not sustainable, hence the death spiral analogy.

Republicans good, Democrats bad. We get it. We heard you the first time.

 

[JSM1970]

I said politicians. You miss the point. I am saying what is happening, not with any bias. It's a death spiral as a state and if nothing changes it'll go the way of Detroit and Illinois, realistically how can it avoid that?

And with the stock market struggling lately capital gains taxes will be way down increasing the deficit.

Republicans good, Democrats bad. We get it. We heard you the first time.

 

[NYUConn]

I said politicians. You miss the point. I am saying what is happening, not with any bias. It's a death spiral as a state and if nothing changes it'll go the way of Detroit and Illinois, realistically how can it avoid that?

And with the stock market struggling lately capital gains taxes will be way down increasing the deficit.

Looks like you got all this figured out. Allow me to say thank you on all our behalf.