Good ESPN Article on the 99 Championship

[Pudge]

Do you actually watch games or just sabermetric everything to death? Both teams are all-time great teams but we were better. More battle tested, deeper, and we had the two guys who could create their own buckets in end of clock situations and were clutch. They had Avery and Carawell.

I love these Duke comments that they’d beat us 9 put of 10.

In a 7 game series, I’d take Calhoun. I’d take a tough, mentally focused El-Amin, Voskuhl, Freeman, Moore. I’d take Rip Hamilton - particularly looking at the Pro he became. That’s continuing the BS. We could take them. We were tougher in 1999 - more experienced. We were tougher in 2005.

I’d take out guys.

 

[Waquoit]

The Alaskan Assassin shot out of his mind to keep it close. He's not doing that for 9 more games. And apparently Corey Maggette was the only guy Albie Mouring could take off the dribble.

I cut this out of the Tampa Tribune that day.

 

[Dove]

Sadly no Ricky Moore quotes! His opening offensive spurt set the tone and gaves us that early confidence.

 

[pj]

That Duke team is the highest rated team in KenPom history ('97-98-present, so the last 21 years). It's also not even close. They were at 43 AdjEM, and the next closest team is at 37. The best team in the country for any given year is usually from 28-32, and UConn was 32 that year. Duke had the equivalent of Villanova's barrage offense from last year, and a BETTER defense than Virginia's from last year. Out of 7,350 team seasons overall in that timeframe, they had a top 3/7350 offense AND a top 3/7350 defense.

Anyone saying they were/are overrated is a clueless hack. Our team was very, very good. We'd be favored to win the national championship in a lot/most years. We wouldn't win more than 4/10 against that Duke team, though.

BUT we won the one that matters. We had a great team. I love watching that replay. And I'll have the memory forever. Cherish the upset, don't downplay the significance.

This is right. The more the teams became familiar with each other, the more likely Duke would win. They had a genuine talent advantage, and eventually they'd learn how to exploit it. But in a first meeting, UConn's toughness was a huge edge. Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. The Huskies gave Duke a punch they had never seen and they couldn't find a response in 40 minutes.

 

[Waquoit]

Sadly no Ricky Moore quotes! His opening offensive spurt set the tone and gaves us that early confidence.

Yeah it did. It was needle and tractor time for the other guys.

 

[Dove]

The Alaskan Assassin shot out of his mind to keep it close. He's not doing that for 9 more games. And apparently Corey Maggette was the only guy Albie Mouring could take off the dribble.

I cut this out of the Tampa Tribune that day.
View attachment 41841

Hat tip to LA Times Chris Dufresne. Great comment, too.

 

[jrazz12]

The Alaskan Assassin shot out of his mind to keep it close. He's not doing that for 9 more games. And apparently Corey Maggette was the only guy Albie Mouring could take off the dribble.

I cut this out of the Tampa Tribune that day.
View attachment 41841

Lol @ Pat Forde. Talk about failing your way up.

Brett McMurphy nails it.

 

[Guapo]

The Alaskan Assassin shot out of his mind to keep it close. He's not doing that for 9 more games. And apparently Corey Maggette was the only guy Albie Mouring could take off the dribble.

I cut this out of the Tampa Tribune that day.
View attachment 41841

This is amazing; thank you.

Someone with a twitter, tweet this at Cold Takes

 

[Excalibur]

The matchup is damn near even. I don't think that the talent differential of Duke was that great. They had the second, third, and fifth best players (Brand, Langdon and Avery), we had the first and fourth (Rip and KEA). Battier wasn't the player that he became as a Senior at that point, so he and Freeman were a push.

I don't understand Maggette only getting 11 minutes. He was probably the only guy that we didn't have an answer for defensively.

 

[Hoophound]

That Duke team is the highest rated team in KenPom history ('97-98-present, so the last 21 years). It's also not even close. They were at 43 AdjEM, and the next closest team is at 37. The best team in the country for any given year is usually from 28-32, and UConn was 32 that year. Duke had the equivalent of Villanova's barrage offense from last year, and a BETTER defense than Virginia's from last year. Out of 7,350 team seasons overall in that timeframe, they had a top 3/7350 offense AND a top 3/7350 defense.

Anyone saying they were/are overrated is a clueless hack. Our team was very, very good. We'd be favored to win the national championship in a lot/most years. We wouldn't win more than 4/10 against that Duke team, though.

BUT we won the one that matters. We had a great team. I love watching that replay. And I'll have the memory forever. Cherish the upset, don't downplay the significance.

Disagree. We had matchups that worked. Ricky was in Avery’s head. They were childhood acquaintances/friends. Ricky was a couple years older. He had abused Avery on the court for years. There was a confidence in Ricky and a fear in Avery that worked decidedly to our advantage. A big brother complex. In a rematch, we keep Ricky on Trajan more and Langdon doesn’t score near 25.

We had the ability to throw 3 guys at Elton Brand. A tactic JC employed throughout his career, even containing Shaq with a crew of bigs trapping, mugging and generally annoying him.

Rip Hamilton was the best player on the court and he was very consistent. He always showed up. Brand was considered the better player going in. He wasn’t.

Our point guard, El Amin, was built for games like that. He loved the spotlight and he would shine in high pressure situations and relish them.

I’m not sure how the stats are compiled to rate the teams but we were a 1 loss team barring injuries as I remember it.

JC is the better game coach and planner. The last thing you want is to give JC time to focus on one opponent. He may not be best coach ever, but he’s definitely the best ever at preparing for one opponent and finding a way to win.

 

[Waquoit]

I don't understand Maggette only getting 11 minutes. He was probably the only guy that we didn't have an answer for defensively.

He couldn't guard a chair. It seemed to me that UConn attacked him with success whenever he was in the game.

 

[Mister P]

The Alaskan Assassin shot out of his mind to keep it close. He's not doing that for 9 more games. And apparently Corey Maggette was the only guy Albie Mouring could take off the dribble.

I cut this out of the Tampa Tribune that day.
View attachment 41841

Yay to Ken Davis Boo to Jeff Jacobs.

 

[DMIL]

Great article.

 

[auror]

Do you actually watch games or just sabermetric everything to death? Both teams are all-time great teams but we were better. More battle tested, deeper, and we had the two guys who could create their own buckets in end of clock situations and were clutch. They had Avery and Carawell.

I watched the full game replay very recently and watched it live at the time.

They were 11 AdjEM better over the season than us. That's the difference between this year's UConn and Villanova. It isn't a small gap. UConn were 9.5 point underdogs in Vegas. And if they played again, even after UConn won, I know that Duke would still be favored considerably by the bookmakers. It's dumb to use one game's worth of observations to make a grand claim about a team's ability, and there are people arguing that not only was UConn better in that game (which I agree with), but further that Duke was overrated in general... when they're literally the best rated team of the last 20 years with huge margin ahead of the pack. They won 33 games by double digits that year! Many champions don't even win 33 games total (like both 2011 and 2014 UConn teams).

As to UConn being more battle-tested and more mentally tough... Duke went exactly as far as UConn did the previous season, but lost to the eventual champion by 2 points and missed a late deep 3 at the buzzer. They returned 5 of their top 6. Duke played 7 top 10 AP teams that year before the title game and beat all 7 with an average victory margin of over 10 points, and 5 of the 7 were on the road or neutral court. UConn played 4 top 10 games total, so Duke won more of them on neutral/road than UConn played total. It's great to come up with post hoc narratives because of how the one game played out, but it doesn't make them true. Duke was less mentally tough because Langdon's floater in the lane with 1 minute left rimmed out and then he traveled, but UConn is mentally tough despite El Amin airballing a floater with 30 seconds left and the team up 1? Unless the argument is that Duke was so good that they were inexperienced in close games, but I don't recommend making arguments that a team is overrated because they're too good.

Avery, Battier, and Maggette (three future top 15 first round picks) went 8/26 and UConn's bench went 7/9 from 2. Did UConn play great defense? Abso-freaking-lutely we did. But those Duke guys literally shot over 60% from 2 on the season combined and got plenty of open shots due to the aggressive doubling of Brand. They just didn't make them in this 1 game sample

 

[superjohn]

I watched the full game replay very recently and watched it live at the time.

They were 11 AdjEM better over the season than us. That's the difference between this year's UConn and Villanova. It isn't a small gap. UConn were 9.5 point underdogs in Vegas. And if they played again, even after UConn won, I know that Duke would still be favored considerably by the bookmakers. It's dumb to use one game's worth of observations to make a grand claim about a team's ability, and there are people arguing that not only was UConn better in that game (which I agree with), but further that Duke was overrated in general... when they're literally the best rated team of the last 20 years with huge margin ahead of the pack. They won 33 games by double digits that year! Many champions don't even win 33 games total (like both 2011 and 2014 UConn teams).

As to UConn being more battle-tested and more mentally tough... Duke went exactly as far as UConn did the previous season, but lost to the eventual champion by 2 points and missed a late deep 3 at the buzzer. They returned 5 of their top 6. Duke played 7 top 10 AP teams that year before the title game and beat all 7 with an average victory margin of over 10 points, and 5 of the 7 were on the road or neutral court. UConn played 4 top 10 games total, so Duke won more of them on neutral/road than UConn played total. It's great to come up with post hoc narratives because of how the one game played out, but it doesn't make them true. Duke was less mentally tough because Langdon's floater in the lane with 1 minute left rimmed out and then he traveled, but UConn is mentally tough despite El Amin airballing a floater with 30 seconds left and the team up 1? Unless the argument is that Duke was so good that they were inexperienced in close games, but I don't recommend making arguments that a team is overrated because they're too good.

Avery, Battier, and Maggette (three future top 15 first round picks) went 8/26 and UConn's bench went 7/9 from 2. Did UConn play great defense? Abso-freaking-lutely we did. But those Duke guys literally shot over 60% from 2 on the season combined and got plenty of open shots due to the aggressive doubling of Brand. They just didn't make them in this 1 game sample

Who gives a they won 33 games by double digits...I think they had one common opponent all year in St. John's. UConn beat them twice, once in a game where the final score was closer than the game actually was and the other UConn blew their doors off. Duke won by a point in overtime vs. the Johnnies.

You watched a different game than everyone else if you think Duke lost because they were just missing shots they normally make.

We had the bodies and fouls to give to take Brand out of what he wanted to do. You take Brand out of his game and that team isn't nearly the behemoth they looked like.

I'll say it again, you need a bucket in end of shot clock/end of game situations and I'm taking Rip and Khalid over everyone. Who are you taking?

In all honestly UConn should have won by a larger margin, they dictated play but then had that 5 minute stretch without a fg near the end before Khalid hit a floater.

We had the best perimeter defender in the country who could take either Avery or Langdon (Trajan kept them in it with tough threes) out of their game and we had the bodies to take Brand out of his game. They had nobody to deal with Rip and it would be that case every time we play them.

Stats are useful but you're way to reliant on them. Case in point that Nova and UConn have the same separation this year in your stat that UConn and Duke did in '99.

 

[Waquoit]

IAvery, Battier, and Maggette (three future top 15 first round picks) went 8/26 and UConn's bench went 7/9 from 2. Did UConn play great defense? Abso-freaking-lutely we did. But those Duke guys literally shot over 60% from 2 on the season combined and got plenty of open shots due to the aggressive doubling of Brand. They just didn't make them in this 1 game sample

You conveniently leave out the fact that Langdon shot out of his mind in this one game sample. He kept them in the game.

 

[auror]

You conveniently leave out the fact that Langdon shot out of his mind in this one game sample. He kept them in the game.

He was a 44% shooter from 3 for the year and 50% in the game. He was literally the best 3 point shooter in the country that season. It wasn't out of his mind, he was an All American having a moderately good game (made 1 extra shot than expected). Those guys missed 7 shots more than expected (maybe a couple less when adjusting for our defense relative to average).

 

[Waquoit]

He was a 44% shooter from 3 for the year and 50% in the game. He was literally the best 3 point shooter in the country that season. It wasn't out of his mind, he was an All American having a moderately good game (made 1 extra shot than expected). Those guys missed 7 shots more than expected (maybe a couple less when adjusting for our defense relative to average).

Because the NC game is no different than all the blow outs they played that year.

 

[Jaker]

The matchup is damn near even. I don't think that the talent differential of Duke was that great. They had the second, third, and fifth best players (Brand, Langdon and Avery), we had the first and fourth (Rip and KEA). Battier wasn't the player that he became as a Senior at that point, so he and Freeman were a push.

I don't understand Maggette only getting 11 minutes. He was probably the only guy that we didn't have an answer for defensively.

Yup, Ratface really missmanaged his use of Maggette, not sure he realized how good Corey could be.

 

[alphasigko]

 

[alphasigko]

 

[alphasigko]